MikeFreas

I had that happen with my first kit built STM. Wing folded right in half at about 100'! That was an expensive day!

algutkin

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Mike,

Check you PMs

Al

MikeFreas

Well Al was very kind to me again and gave me his old STM fully equiped and two sets of wings! I'm thinking this is going to be my winter project. I want the ability to mount and fly a pan/tilt system on the nose for very high quaility pictures. How does a twin conversion sound to you guys? The covering is going to have to come off to change and beef the wing structure. I thought about it all the way home and think I have come up with a plan. It's going to be several months to finish with the holidays and all but it should fly before we pack and move to HI next spring. I'll keep the pictures coming. Keep this thread alive guys.

vmsguy

Mike...!

A twin telemaster.. darnit! I was going to do that!

But seriously, I think it's a wonderful idea. I told you about the wider fuselages available at lazerworks. I think a twin tele would be great. Get another 4120 motor like you already have, and you'll have lots of power and ability to pull/carry anything you want.

I'm working on building a twin tail for my STM. I am just about to start the tail construction. But I gotta do some yard work before it gets too cold.

One thought I had, was to get a second radio setup, and maybe put some gyros on one or two of the axis for your pan and tilt system. I'd think it'd smooth out the camera jitters a bit.

But the more I think about it.. You need a bigger plane...

Go out and get yourself the Giant Telemaster kit. Put your twin 4120s on it. Pan and tilt in the front.. And away you go!

Keep your STM for candy and parachute drops..

If you do this.. Make good notes, drawings and pictures... I'll be watching your work closely!

MikeFreas

I'm thinking dual 4120's would be overkill don't you? I'd also have to run two 5s packs and that would weight a ton. I already have one so it wouldn't be that much more I guess but I'd also need another controller. I was thinking the size just under the 4120 in the AXI line. I have to look at it closer really and see what I can come up with. Reguardless of what motor I go with the wing is the first thing that needs to be done. Then I have to modify the fusalage a bit. One thing I'm worried about is it being tail heavy without the motor on the front. I could move the firewall forward to allow me to push the packs further up. Reason I need to do that is because I hate the stock setup for the rudder and elevator, it's to slopy and not very good in terms of reliability. This will be a long winter project for sure. I'll keep everyone and the thread up to date on this.

vmsguy

Dual 4120s would be wonderful on a Giant Telemaster....

A couple things I've seen on twin conversions. 1. The wing mounted engines are mounted quite a ways forward of the wing's leading edge. It doesn't look right, but it is done this way for balancing. 2. Twin tails are done to get prop-wash over the rudders.

Considering your situation. I'd do a few things:

1, I'd move the bombdrop bay up to be directly under the CG in the fuse.
2. I'd move the servos for the rudder and elevator up to be just behind the bomb drop.
3. I'd move the wing servos as far forward as possible, maybe even in front of the spar.
4. I'd put the camera in the nose. If not carrying a camera, simulate the weight with a "dummy" camera. Then put the batteries between the camera and the bomb-bay.
5. I'd build the motor nacelles with the motor mount about 1 - 1/2" forward of the leading edge. Maybe even 2" if it doesn't look too goofy. This will put the motors forward, and hopefully everything will weigh out nicely.
6. If moving the bomb-bay, I'd build the wing like the Giant Tele has. It has a center section the width of the fuse, and the two wing halves bolt onto the center. This center section would make it easier to build in a load door for the bomb-bay. And easy to connect the wing halves.
7. Wing struts are a good thing... of course you know that already.

Personally, I think you need two Tele's.. the first as a bomber/tow plane, the second a twin as your photo platform. In my mind, the bomb-bay is really imposing obstacles with regards to balance. Without the bomb-bay on your AP platform, you can move all your servos and batts as far forward as you want. This will aid in balancing it. It'll also make the engineering simpler. Then, on your bomber/tug, being a single engine, you can have your bomb under the wing, and it'll balance better because you have a single engine.

Good luck, and remember to keep us updated... Actually, I think it's time to start a new threat dedicated to this project....

MikeFreas

Your right about the other topic. Here you go. Check it out and tell me what you think about my ideas. I didn't mention anything about the twin rudder idea. I plan on installed a larger rudder just like my last STM so that should be good enough.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_66...tm.htm#6616927

Izzak

Hi: I am a New-Bee to RC aircraft. I purchased a Senior Telemaster and have been struggling to assemble it . I have gone to 4 sites and downloaded all the NEW instruction manuals. My recent problem is the placement of the tail wheel. I can not find anything on how the assemble is mounted.
From all the photos the wheel is pointed rearward. Yet to do that I would have to connect the Vertical Right Angle BLACK METAL ROD piece of the wheel assembly to the bottom of the Rudder ?? I can not tell from photos if a grove was cut in the BOTTOM of the rudder and then glued in or if this right angle metal rod is inserted into a hole drilled in the rudder. I am confused, if it is attached to the rudder then in flight the wheel will turn with the rudder and I would think this would throw off the plane. If a hole is drilled into the RUDDER, WHERE ? If a hole is drilled into the end of the fuselage then the wheel would be pointing forward and that would not be good for landing ? I read a Post by (?) and showed a photo of the rear wheel with a different size wheel but NOT HOW the upper part of the wheel rod was attached to the plane.

D.L.R.

izk, drill a hole in the rudder from the FRONT before mounting to the vertical stab, the height is pretty much your choice. If you have a spare piece of brass fuel tube that slips over the right angle part of the tail wheel wire freely, put that in the hole in the rudder and glue it in, makes the connection much stronger. Don't glue the wire into the tube, let it slide if it wants.
Cut a shallow groove in the rudder for the vertical wire to fit into or the rudder will be too far from the vert. stab, you really had it figured out, the wheel IS angled back, and has NO affect on the flight characteristics.
I would strongly suggest if there is an experianced modeler available, you have him look over the way the elevator is designed and see if there is a practical way to solidly join the 2 halves, I finally got mine to work fairly well, but initially had some real bad "flutter". The other option would be to use an engine with far less power than an Evolution .60 so you aren't tempted to "overdo" on speed. Throttle management is one way, but I'm pretty sure a .46 engine would pull it around as well. I know a Thunder Tiger .46 would, just don't plan on decent loops with a .46.
Best of luck, Dan[8D]

Izzak

Your reply #483
Dan: Now that is what I call SUPER GREAT HELP ! Thank you, Dan. I will try what you said. Stay tuned, I will need your help in the future. Most of the knowledgeable Montrose aircraft R/C members I have not met yet. The next club meeting is in January, but if I have someone as helpful as you Dan I will be bugging this Forum.

Izzak

Hi: First off I wish to thank everyone who has posted on the Senior Telemaster. Over the last 2mo. I have been following your post’s to fill in where the instruction manual does not cover. I am new to RC flying (used to build and fly string models in the 1960s’) and without your detailed photos & instructions I doubt if I would ever have completed this model. Yes it is a great model but not for a beginner to complete, with the manual provided.
Now to my questions “please”! In post 64 the fuel tank is mounted all the way to the firewall. In the instructions the tank is installed only to the forward cockpit. Can you let me know if your way is correct? Your fuel tank has a stopper with a screw to seal it down tight. The one that came with my TC has the stopper sealed and is none removable. The “clunk” (think this means the weighted tube inside the tank) is installed. My tank has 3 spouts in the front, I take it the bottom spout is for the engine carburetor, the middle one is not drilled it is still plugged, the top one is drilled out and I assume it is for a vent hose to the exhaust.
I noticed in post #84 that the rudder push rod is installed in the 2nd hole from the end. Could you explain what hole’s I should use as a beginner?
I do not know if the photos are uploading with my post ( not sure how to attach photos). I will try to explain what I did at the tail wheel to keep it from driving up into the rudder and breaking the rudder. I sanded the tail wheel shaft just below the round collar where the shaft goes through to the rudder. I then used the largest Ti strap I could find, put epoxy below the Ti wrap. Then I moved the Ti wrap down into the epoxy then back up so NO epoxy would get into the round collar. This prevents the shaft from driving upwards on landing or bouncing the tail.
There are no instructions on how to rout the ailerons servo wires to the receiver. I saw in one post where a channel was cut out but I would think that would weaken the wing. Any suggestions on routing these wires, other than cutting out the wing would be greatly appreciated.
I would get help from a senior RC flyer but I only joined the MMAA (Montrose Model Aircraft Association) this month, by eMail. I have tried to contact members by eMail but with no success. They do not meet again tell the end of January, then I should be able to get some help and not bug you guys.
Thank you very much and I will be reading your latest posts.

MikeFreas

izk,

Good to hear your just about done with your build. I agree that the instructions leave something to be desired even for more experianced modelers. Now onto your questions.

For your fuel tank placement the correct answer is it depends. Remember that you want a balanced bird with the tank empty. If you set the tank so that the birds CG is just right with it full then when you run down on fuel you will be tail heavy and that is not good. Your bird will be slightly nose heavy with a full tank and that is fine. TANK PLACEMENT SHOULD BE THE LAST THING YOU DO! Modifications like the one to your tail wheel add weight with very long arms that CAN affect CG of the bird.

For the tank itself. Normal or traditional setups where it's easy to get to the motor use two connections. One for the fuel feed to the carb and one for the pressure tap to the muffler. For models with cowl's you can use a third fill port for easier fueling. There are other methods to setting up a fuel tank that I used on my heli but it's not nessary in your application. I advise taking the tank appart for three modifications.

1. For the clunk it's critical that it move in all directions freely without getting caught up in the corners. To long and it will get stuck. To short and it will not rest in the lower most part of the tank shorting your flight time. You may also want to replace the fuel line that comes with the ARF as sometimes they aren't the best quality. It may take several tries to get the length right but trust me it's a pain to fix after it's installed even with all the room the STM provides.

2. Go to Mc D's or any other fast food place and pick yourself up some large ID straws. Cut a piece to slip over your clunk line to prevent it from folding back on it's self when doing loops or mild aerobatics. If you have done step 1 correctly this is just a precaution but it works.

3. Take some spare fuel tubing and cut slices about an eigth of an inch wide. Use a pair of pliers or forcetps and slide the slices of tubing (one at a time) over the end of your tool so that you can spread it open. Put one of these slices over every connection from the clunk to the motor. Some tanks come with thin gauge wire to do this but this method is much better. This will prevent any of your fuel lines from coming off their connections.

Your tail wheel modification looks good and I did the same thing. I'm not sure why they didn't see that all vertical forces on the tail wheel would be transfered directly into the rudder. I went a step further then you because I also inlarged my tail and had the covering off. I cut a section about an inch square out of the bottom leading edge of the rudder and replaced it with heavy ply of the same thickness. I used epoxy for glue for a super stong joint. Now my control horn and my tail wheel wire have very solid wood to attach to. If you don't do this now you will after a flying season especally wile flying with Nitro.

The controll pushrod placement isn't that big of a deal if you have a computer radio. If not then I suggest placing the rod in the middle of both the control and servo horn on all controlls except the rudder if it's unmodified. The stock rudder is small and you will need full through for take off and landing controll. For me I have mine setup for full mechnical deflection without binding and use the radio to change how much control I have. For take off and landing you want full deflection with some positive expo to dial the sensitivity down a bit.

Your wires for the wing are easy. Every rib in both ARF and kit versions has a large hole in the center from root to tip. I use .032 safety wire and feed it from the wing root all the way to the hole in the covering where the servo goes. I wrap the wire around the end of the servo lead and guide it back through. Your going to need servo extensions for this and I HIGHLY recommend using some kind of mechnical locking device for the in wing connection. Many companies sell plastic locks for your connections but a much better, lighter, and cheeper way is to use heat shrink tubing large enough to fit over the connection. Shrink it up and your good to go!
If you don't have wire some string will work but it may tak a bit longer. For both methods I place the wing half tip down on my toe so I can look straight down all the holes and use gravity to help guide the wire or string.

Hope this helps!

My STM ARF modifications should start after the holidays!

Izzak

THANK YOU MIKE FOR THE REPLY. It is great to have knowledgeable persons like you to help us new-bies get off the ground..

46Marcus

Al,
Do you have the plans for the Cub 100incher?? Could I pay you to have a Staples in your area make me a coipy of the plans?? I would like to scratch build one as soon as I finish scratching this tele 95 I have on the board. Thanks for whatever you can do. BY the way, anyone need an extra 95 kit, I am cutting two as I hand cut this one.
Mark

whitewall

I remember reading about someone re-vamping the wing to do away with the rubber bands on the senior telemaster. Please describe the method you used. Thanks Whitewall

D.L.R.

Whitewall, look on page 5 of this forum for one method.
Good luck, Dan

Izzak

Hi fellow Senior Telemaster enthusiasts: I have just about completed my STM (locked into my work room due to the -20deg. wx outside for the last 2 mo.) the only thing remaining are the STRUTS. To complete the struts, as shown in the instructions, would be too expensive. Hobby Lobby brass control horns and other recommended other parts (part #GR36763) are way too expensive, after paying for shipping. I saw the Post on using parts from Home Depot, but the nearest store to me is 400 miles away. I looked at Hobby Lobby's diagram, posted on this site, but I need something to mount into the wing block & the fuselage that I can attach the struts to. Has anyone come up with a nice looking way to mount the struts?

MikeFreas

izk,

Do you have any brass tubing that will fit over the end of the strut? Your going to need to make an adapter to go from round to flat to mount the struts. I used a strip of aluminm (sp) to do mine with some bolts and nuts. How much does HL want for the adapters?

Because of the weather your most likely not planning on flying anytime soon correct? I'm out of town this weekend but I'm willing to send you some stuff. PM me and let me know.

Izzak

Hi: I do have some brass tubing that I could use. I will try and shape something out of that. Thank you for the suggestion. The HL Control Horns were priced at $14 + $10 shipping !
Because of the weather you’re most likely not planning on flying anytime soon correct? I'm out of town this weekend but I'm willing to send you some stuff. PM me and let me know. Boy I could us any help you can offer. The local club members are to far from my home so I have had to rely on RC UNiverse for any help I can get, finishing this STM.
Thank You,
izk (Isaiah)

MikeFreas

izk,

Not a problem at all.

My idea on your tubing was to slide it over the end of the dowles and secrure it with screws then smash the ends flat and drill a hole for your wing and fuslage fastners. On the fuslage side I suggest mounting the sturts between the gear into the gear plate. This is by far the most secure and best wood to go into. On both ends I used blind nuts and screws. If you just use wood screws the holes will ware out over time and you will loose the support you need. On the wing side it's kind of a pain to get the blind nuts on the back side of the block because of the covering. I suggest cutting a small square around the mounting block and re-gluing it before the first flight. The factory glue just stinks and both of my ARF's had the blocks break away from the ribs. You should have a piece of spare covering if not cub yellow matches fairly well, just be careful with the factory covering as it melts at very low temps.

Here is a link to my other thread and ARF STM that I'm bashing like crazy.

D.L.R.

izk, ditto on mike's comments about the strut mount points in the wing, I too pulled them loose after having put in the blind nuts AND adding slow curing epoxy around the blocks. I wound up adding more wood around the original blocks. no trouble since, but scares me everytime I "stress" the old girl. Another way to attatch the struts to the fuse.
1) install the blind nuts, I put a piece of 1/8" X 3/4" aluminum across the bottom of the fuse and used blind nuts in the plywood inside the fuse just behind the gear mount, they are about 3/4" in from each end of the aluminum bar with 2 6-32 screws going thru the bar into the blind nuts, this solidly attaches the bar to the fuse.
2) approx. 3/8" in from each end of the bar and again thru the fuse from inside I installed another blind nut, now you have a bullit proof lower mount for your struts, just in case I might want to hang something from underneath, I went ahead and put 2 more blind nuts toward the center of the bar.
3) I made both ends of my struts the same with 1/2 X 1/16 inch flat brass approx 2" long. very carefully saw a slot approx. 1/2" deep centerd in the strut open as needed until brass fits, at this point I drilled a few 1/32" holes thru the brass, coated with 30 min. epoxy and let cure. Next step to was drill a hole thru strut and and insert a small bolt (4-40 I think) with nut and then put heat shrink tubing over it. you basically do this 4 times, then bend and drill mounting holes as needed. Oh yeh, mark right and left, I'd almost bet they won't fit right otherwise, unless you are REAL carefull.
4) 1" 6-32 screws with a knurled knob tightened on at the head end makes for a "no tools needed ass'y) at the field.

Izzak

Hi: Thank you for the reply. I am new to model airplanes. I think I could follow your instructions but if you have any photos I sure would appreciate them.

Thanks, Izk

Izzak

Hi Mike; Sounds like a solid way to mount the struts. Probably a dumb question but what is a blind nut?
As long as I have a hole in the wing I think I will beef up the strut block, suggested by the other person (not sure of his fist name) who answered my post.
Thank You,
Izk

MikeFreas

A blind nut is a threaded insert that with a flat end with some "spikes" to hold it into the wood from behind. So you drill a hold slightly larger then the diameter of your bolt and the blind nut will fit into the hole from the back side and the spikes will hold it in. Understand?

D.L.R.

izk, wish I was smart enough and/or had the equipment to post photos, I get the impression you will "modify and adapt" at regardless. Good luck to ya!
Dan Rickerd [8D]