Glow to Electric Conversions Discuss glow/gas conversion to electric here.

World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

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Old 08-14-2010, 05:51 PM
  #1  
Greg Covey
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Default World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

The World Models [link=http://www.airborne-models.com/html/productdetails.asp?ProductID=95]42% Ultimate Biplane[/link] is made from high quality balsa and plywood construction. It is available in two different color schemes and is light weight yet strong for aerobatic maneuvers. The model offers hand-painted fiberglass cowling and wheel pants. It comes with strong 1/4" thick aluminum landing gear, a painted pilot, and all the hardware needed to complete the arf.

After a two year hiatus with EDF, it is time for "the return of the prop". A very large prop will power this 38lb model. This is a winter build for the 2011 flying season so I can spent the time needed to make this gas to electric conversion a very safe and capable flyer!

Specifications:[ul][*] Wing Span: 98 in / 2489 mm[*] Wing Area: 3300 sq in / 213 sq dm[*] Fuselage Length: 104 in / 2640 mm[*] Engine Required: 150 cc gasoline engine[*] Radio Required: 6-channel radio w/ 17 servos [/ul]
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:47 AM
  #2  
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

The 42% Ultimate comes in three big boxes, two via Fed Ex, and the biggest box (containing the fuselage) via Greyhound Express (aka Trailways).

The wing box below contains four wing halves. One wing set, shown below, is slightly shorter than the other because it attaches to the fuselage. The ailerons are taped in place and the covering scheme is different on the top and bottom sides.

Two large decal sheets and a 14-page manual are also included in the wing box.
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:22 PM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

In box 2 of 3, we have the cowl and hardware. Again, everything was well protected and arrived in perfect condition.

The flawless cowl was beautifully painted and trimmed. The clear plastic canopy was also ready to install. The painted pilot was very well done and a nice added touch to the kit! In the past, I have had problems with these tires from World Models so we'll see if I decide to use them or obtain others.

The spinner looked to be very good quality with an aluminum backplate. The wheel pants were reinforced on both sides with fiberglass-covered plywood so they can be used on either side.

As in my 1/4-scale and 1/3-scale Cub reviews for World Models, the tailwheel assembly looked top notch and the hardware bags were all numbered to match the steps in the manual. It's little extras like these that make The World Models ARFs a great value!
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:06 PM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

In box 2 of 3, we have the fuselage, gear mains, and tail sections. The yard stick gives you some perspective on the size of each part. The aluminum gear mains is 1/4" thick and very strong.

When you need to use a step ladder for photos and your 5-month old granddaughter can fit in the cockpit, you start to wonder if you have gone too far!

Note: Granddaughter not included.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:30 AM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

A little history on the 42% Ultimate came from another RCU member.

The World Models 42% Ultimate is the same airplane as Chip Hyde''s [link=http://www.aero-works.net/old/customergallery/ultimate42/chiphyde2.htm]2002 TOC[/link] airplane that was designed and built for him and then produced by Aeroworks for several years starting in 2003. After Aeroworks started their QB line of ARFs, made by a different manufacturer, World Models continued to produce the old Aeroworks Ultimate line (150, 100, 50cc sizes) under the Airborne Models distributor name.

Jason Noll flew the new Aeroworks 150cc QB Ultimate on electric power this summer at Joe Nall using a Plettenburg motor.

It seems that this big Ultimate biplane has been a crowd favorite for many years!
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:32 AM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Hmm..


I do hope you have a generator on board your trailer. You'll need it to charge up all the batteries..

Good luck though.. I'll be interesting to see how it goes.
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Old 08-28-2010, 07:09 AM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

How right you are! We have Honda 1000 and Honda 2000 generators in our group. They not only allow us to recharge our trailer batteries but can be used to feed the AC power supplies that run our LiPo chargers. It might make a good AMP'D column to cover high capacity charging needs.
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Old 09-05-2010, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

nice plane! what kind of motor and batterys are you going to be using?
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:35 AM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Greg ,Looks as tho you'll have your hands full.I just purchased a Miles Reed kit of Challenger II Pitts BiPlane(37%) .I looking at a Hacker A100 Motor.Maybe smaller if I can get the planes weight down. I'll be watching.
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:28 PM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Hi guys,

Sorry for the reply delay but I am trying to keep focused on the remaining few weeks of our current flying season which culminates at the NEAT Fair on September 17th - 19th. My last EDF test flights in preparation for the noontime demos went very well so the jets are packed to go and I have a some fun time scheduled for this weekend's float fly in the fabulous Finger Lakes of NY.

I'll be using a Hacker motor like Stefan. My choice has been narrowed down to two versions, each of which has two winds; the Hacker A150 and A200. My prop clearance will easily accommodate a 32"-35" prop with 5" wheels. My speed controller will be one of the new Castle Creations ICE HV ESCs and I will likely use a 12s 10AH LiPo supply made from four 6s 5AH 30C packs. A 15AH pack may also be considered for flight duration and balance weight. My receivers, regulators, and Rx. packs will be completely redundant for safety. I'll detail everything during the build.

I purchased my Spektrum [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMSA6030]A6030[/link] aileron servos and will start the build on the wings in October.

Good luck on your Challenger II, Stefan!
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:22 PM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Greg,

If you are using the Hacker A150 or the Hacker A200 all of the ESC's currently sold by Castle Creations won't work as they will not be able to meet the demands of the motors in terms of the amps & number of Lipo's needed to power the motors. They used to sell a 250amp SHV (Super High Voltage) ESC capable of handling 90 volts but they no longer make it. They had a 400 amp ESC in development but that never came to fruition.

Innov8tive Designs, maker of Scorpion brand motors & ESC's, has 3 high voltage ESC in development capable of 16s. You might be able to get one though since you would be promoting their product as part of this build. The new 300 amp, 16 cell ESC from Scorpion Motors is capable of up to 20,000 watts of electric power (go to page 281 of the forum):

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0+amp&page=281

The person you want to speak with is Lucien at Innov8tive Designs, Inc. Phone: 760-468-8838
You can also reach him via the RC Groups forum: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=660918

I have spoken to him on 2 different occasions as well as through the Innov8tive Designs forum. Towards the beginning of the year he told me it would be available mid 2010.


For ESC for both motors try this:

Schulze 300 amp continuous 400 amp burst ESC: fut-xxl-40.303K
http://www.icare-rc.com/motor_controls_brushless.htm
http://www.schulze-elektronik-gmbh.de/index_uk.htm

The Jetti 220amp ESC will work with the Hacker A150 but not the A200.
http://www.aero-model.com/Hacker-Bru...-OPTO-ESC.aspx

Finally the latest ESC on the market is the 16s, 63 volt, 250amp X-Series made by MGM-Compro. http://mgm-compro.com/index.php?tid=...ics-for-models You'll need to contact the company directly as it is not yet sold via their website.
Here is a pic of the ESC: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...mentid=3419417

Check out my install of the A200 in the Hangar 9 46% Ultimate. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_83...tm.htm#8323418
You'll need the 14s set up as anything less will not give you the performance required for this plane.
The standoffs are made by www.pspmfg.com
http://www.pspmfg.com/RCEngineMountingHardware.html
The propeller drill guide for both the Hacker A150 & A200 is the same as the one sold by PSP Mfg for the DA150 http://www.pspmfg.com/DA150EnginePropDrillJig.html

Hope this helps,
Saul
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:38 PM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Greg,

Because of the number of batteries needed to power this plane you'll need this charger. It is capable of up to a 30amp charge rate:

http://www.revolectrix.com/pl8_description_tab.htm

You'll deffinetly want to use the 45c LiPos from Thunderpower.

Keep in mind you will need a 24volt 50amp power supply. This might help: http://www.feathermerchantrc.com/
This is another option you have and its 1/4 of the price.Buy 2 of the 47 amp 12 volt power supplies for a total price $90.00 shipped,and put them in series to get 47 amps at 24 volts.
Feathermerchant explains how to put them in series, just make sure you totally understand how its done.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1164359

Hope this helps,

Saul
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:44 PM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Greg,

One more thing, the bolts needed to mount the motor are 6mm and can be purchased from http://www.boltdepot.com/

You will not find them at your local hardware store as they are very long.

Saul
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:59 PM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Hi Saul,

Yes, you are correct and I appreciate the advice. I was trying to keep a few of the actual items under the radar until actually used in the build early next year. As you may know already, I used to work for FMA so I am familiar with their existing and new products. The Power Lab 8 is a great advancement in charging packs for giant scale flying. For now though, I'll keep any information on ICE SHV ESCs under wraps until they become available for others or Castle Creations decides to promote them. There seems to be some U.S. regulations prohibiting the sale of anything over 14s.

I am very interested in your use of the Hacker A200 in the Hangar 9 46% Ultimate so I will check out your thread. I realize my suggestion of using 12s was not adequate but simply used it as a general reference until I had my final solution in hand.

Again this is a winter season build for me. Please keep the information flowing because it is what this thread is all about.

Thanks for the information and links. I get excited just seeing new posts on this level of electric power!

Regards.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:48 PM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Hi Greg,

With regards to the 14s your exactly right. When I spoke with Lucien at Innov8tive Designs he told me that his legal dept was probably going to have to have people sign waivers much in the way individuals sign waivers for turbines thereby eliminating any liability.
Your hinting at ICE SHV ESC's is great news!! I know that the hacker a150 & a200 will handle more than the 14s so it would be great to see an ESC capable of handling such a huge amount of power. I really believe that you could take the a200 & put it into a Bill Hempel 50% ARF Cub and it would fly it with a 14s. After all, the gas engine requirements are 150cc-200cc which is the same as my Ultimate. Even though the cub is heavier its wing produces tremendous lift at any speed.

That would be an AWESOME article for you to do as I don't think there has ever been a half scale single engine R/C plane powered by electric.

http://www.billhempel.com/cub.html

It is so cool to see all the advancements that are being made with regards to giant scale electrics.

On a different note, this also might help:
http://www.western-robotics.com/herc...er-BEC_hp.html

It is a 14s BEC!! How cool is that! That should help to keep the weight down.
Here is some info on the BEC:


Width 34 mm
Length - 41 mm
Weight - 40 grams

Super high efficiency 5.3V, 6V, 8.4V and 9.0V selectable voltage regulator.
Wide input voltage range from 9V to 58V(3-14 LiPo Cells).
Min. 13V input for 8.4/9.0V applications.
High current capability of 10 Amps continuous 15A peak.
High power output that handles multiple servos including digital servos.
Built in Current and Thermal overload protection. LED status indicator gives visual feedback.
Ideal for R/C model 2.4GHz radio systems.
Laboratory burn-in tested at excess of 7amps continuous load at 9V output for 72 hours of uninterrupted operation
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:53 PM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Hi Greg,

Also found these:
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...%28100cc_eq%29
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...850~80cc_Eq%29
Saul
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Old 09-11-2010, 06:22 AM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Hi Greg,

One other thing I just remembered. The deans connectors are only rated for 100 amps continuous so you will need theses:
http://www.xtremepowersystems.net/pr...prod=XPS-8mm-1
These 8mm bullet connectors handle 300A of continuous current.


Also Robbe makes a 14s charger called the Power Peak E1 (Eternity)1-8471
http://at.robbe-online.net/rims_at.s...1b3e0dc1460615
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwTUQf_goDA&translated=1

Hope this helps,

Saul
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Old 09-12-2010, 07:14 AM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Saul,

Safety is the key issue. The Turnigy motors look nice but I wouldn't use them on a giant scale project that couldn't float in for a landing without power...like a Cub perhaps. We'll see what the users report but they have no track record for now.

I planned on using 6mm bullet connectors that are rated for 200 amps continuous current but I like your link to the 8mm connectors for 300 amps continuous current.

For ULTIMATE safety, I plan to use the following receiver and regulator components.[ul][*] Spektrum [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/RelatedParts.aspx?ProdId=SPMAR9100&Category=Optional%20Accessories#quickOverview]AR9100[/link] DSM2 9-Channel PowerSafe Receiver[*] Two Spektrum [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMVR6010]VR6010[/link] Voltage Regulators 6v, 10A[*] Two Spektrum LiPo Receiver Packs [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMB2000LP]2000mAh[/link]
[/ul]

The Spektrum system provides true redundancy in receiver and power to the servos. There are four receivers and two separate receiver power supplies that are ORed together. If any one receiver or power supply fails, the others take over. A fail-safe switch operation is also provided. If the On-Off switch fails, the receiver and servo power stay on.

As you already know, it is important to always keep safety in mind with these giant scale, high voltage, high power electric conversions. Having a fire extinguisher nearby that can handle a LiPo fire is also required.
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Old 09-12-2010, 07:22 AM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

That power safe receiver is such a great idea for giant scale. I like the power redundancy it provides. Question though: what not just use a 6.6v 2300 mAh A123 receiver pack there by eliminating the need for 2 voltage regulators and thus saving some weight. I now use the A123 pack in all of my gas and glow planes and just love how fast they charge and the fact they don't need a VR. They only take about 15-20 minutes to charge.

Saul
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Old 09-12-2010, 07:28 AM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Saul,

You A123 pack suggestion is another good solution. Reducing component quantity and cost is usually a plus. I will strongly consider using the A123 packs.

Where do you get your packs?


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Old 09-12-2010, 10:00 AM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Hi Greg,

This should help. This is the exact receiver pack I use. You'll just need to remove the deans connector:

http://www.hobbypartz.com/a1syrx62slil1.html

FYI: Any A123 pack you get MUST have the balance connector otherwise you will not be able to charge it above the 1c rate. You'll just need to make sure you charger is capable of charging LiFe packs. I use the Xtrema Charger which has up to an 8 amp charge & will charge up to 4 batteries at once.

http://www.tmenet.com/products/lithi...xtrema-charger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv6dD67SUew

The great thing about the A123 packs is that they can be charged up to 1000 times before ever needing to be replaced whereas LiPos are good for about 300 charges.

Saul
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:52 PM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

When I was at the NEAT Fair a few weeks ago, I was presented with some evidence by Rick Vaughn that using A123 cells without a regulator provided a superior power system without glitches. He used this device from XPS called a [link=http://www.xtremepowersystems.net/proddetail.php?prod=XPS-TT]TattleTale[/link]. It showed that his receiver power supply glitched when under certain conditions like multiple servos reversing direction at the same time. After he switched to using 2-cell A123 packs directly, the TattleTale reported no glitches.
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:06 PM
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Greg,
That is amazing. They are some amazing cells. They have a wonderful ability to resist voltage drops under extreme loads.

Saul
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:56 PM
  #24  
DrYankum
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

I fly the original 42% Aeroworks Ultimate and can tell you some things about the kit since the World Models is the same. Firstly you will have a hard time bringing it in at 38 lbs. I've flown it with a DA 150 and presently with a twin spark 3W 150. Chip flew it with a 210, I think. It come out big time tail heavy with the rudder servos on a pull-pull set up. Do not try to put the rudder servos in a push-pull arrangement in the tail. I switched to a twin spark, because the engine with 4 plugs, 2 batteries and 2 ignition modules was about 1 1/2 lbs heavier than the DA. Even so I had to add tons of lead in the nose . Again dont forget chip flew it with a bigger and heavier engine in the nose.
The flying wires are a hugh pita. It almost takes 2 people to assemble at the field.
Maybe with the big batteries you'll be using for the conversion you might be able to get the cg without a lot of lead in the nose.
Mine came out at about 44 lbs.
In spite of all the weight it carries, it flys very well and will hover and torque roll with ease.
BEEF UP THE LANDING GEAR SUPPORTS. With all its weight, I knocked the gear off on essentially a perfect landing, much to my surprise
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:08 AM
  #25  
Greg Covey
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Default RE: World Models 42% Ultimate Biplane

Ok, thanks for the advice and cautions. My electric powered version will take advantage of the battery pack weight which doesn't change during flight. At this point, I am not sure if they will reside behind the firewall or in the cowl. I am leaning towards using three 5AH packs in parallel for a 15AH capacity but the cell count may range from 12s to 16s depending upon my choice of power system.

One possibility for the power system is as follows. It has the advantages of using readily available parts, relatively low cost, and light in weight. The main disadvantage, for me at least, is that the 42% Ultimate may not have strong pullout from a hover. (9200w/40lbs = 230w/lb)[ul][*] Neu [link=http://www.castlecreations.com/products/neumotors/nm2200.html]2225-1Y[/link] motor w/8mm shaft[*] P62 [link=http://www.neumotors.com/Site/Gear_Drives.html]Neubox[/link] w/14mm shaft[*] Castle Creations [link=http://www.castlecreations.com/products/phoenix_ice_hv.html]ICE HV 160[/link] ESC[*] Xoar [link=http://xoarprops.com/2BladeBeechLaminate.html]32x12[/link] prop[*] [link=http://maddog-rc.com/]Mad Dog RC[/link] motor mount[*] 12s 10AH LiPo Supply[/ul]
This setup was used by Josh "BoneDoc" Young and produces 9200 watts at 215 amps peak power. Josh uses it on his 40% 119" Extra 330SE. You can see his flying video [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaaeTAyS4Jw]here[/link].
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