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Irvine Engines

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Old 01-30-2011, 06:57 AM
  #26  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

Bubbles around the head when the engine is running, hummm, did anyone check the screws on the head? They do come loose, sometimes right away too.
Actually I have never seen anyone use a Irvine engine anywhere that I have flown airplanes yet here in the USA. The engines just do not come over across the sea from the UK much. I don't think we really had any importers for them.  I wound up getting a couple of old Irvine .61's, so out of curiosity, I thought I would see how they run. Unfortunately, I have to repair them first.

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Old 01-30-2011, 09:13 AM
  #27  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

Sig imported Irvine's until the exhange rate got out of hand
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:23 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines


ORIGINAL: earlwb
Bubbles around the head when the engine is running, hummm, did anyone check the screws on the head? They do come loose, sometimes right away too.
The owner said that he had tightened the head and that didn't help. Most likely not difficult to fix, but some people may brake the screws rather than repairing the real issue.
I have no proof on any error, it just sounded a little like a trend, that's all.

I'm perhaps a little biased as a good friend of mine used to run almost exclusively Irvine engines, but he wont touch the new ones...
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Old 01-30-2011, 07:37 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

I got to looking at the bearings and realized I had some bearings for some of my Fox engines that would fit just fine. So I removed the shields from the large main bearing and decided to have a go at it with a front bearing that didn't have any shields on it. The engine uses a R6-NZ front bearing with one shield and the rear bearing is a MR6903 no shield bearing. The bearings are quite common on quite a few .60 and .61 size engines.

The engine before I took it apart. The ASP carb is sort of a odd ball thing to me, I never saw one like it before. But I had reservations about it working as the bore is just so huge for a .61 engine.

Oh yeah the head screws and backplate screws are all 6x32 screws, one half of a inch long. The two muffler screws are the next length up, I think five-eigths in length or something like that.






The crankcase all stripped down.


The oil groove in the front part of the crankcase.


Looking in the back of the crankcase where the main bearing goes.


The piston and connecting rod, the no logo side of the rod faces to the front of the engine.


The logo side of the rod faces towards the rear of the engine so that you can see the logo with the backplate off.


The cylinder sleeve and some port cutouts


Some of the intake ports have angled cutouts in them.



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Old 01-30-2011, 07:57 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

I tried to use the huge ASP carb on it, but the carb just had too large of a bore on it to work, whenever you tried to go much over 1/2 throttle the engine would stop drawing fuel and die on me. It was also running way to rich in the midrange as I had the main needle opened up too much.
So I installed a Perry 5100 carb on the engine and it worked out pretty well with that carb.
The engine is now running pretty good again, it has compression and I can hand flip the prop to get it to fire up no problem.
Power output has the engine being a little less powerful than my venerable Fox Hawk .60 engines, as the Hawk 60 has a few hundred more RPM over the old Irvine .61 engine using a Zinger 11x7 propeller and Omega 5% nitro glow fuel.
It now oozes some oil out of the front bearing area, but I am used to it with my other engines like the Fox engines for example.







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Old 01-30-2011, 08:04 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

Looks like an old ASP 108 Red Head carb?
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:23 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

A little oil out the front ahs never bothered me, Ifuel proof everything and Ihave plenty of paper towels.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:24 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

A little oil out the front ahs never bothered me, Ifuel proof everything and Ihave plenty of paper towels.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:12 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

I'm fortunate to have bought an Irvine 53 (UK version) with instructions about 2 years ago and couldn't be happier with it. I bought it off of ebay for around $65 shipped.

Got off to a rocky start with it because when I first got it I found that it had sand/grit in the carb and exhaust area. Also the muffler was striped out and hardware srews & nuts were used to attach it which resulted in some scratches to the finsh and peeled paint around the exhaust port. Other than that it was a very clean looking engine.

Given the dirt, I had to take it apart for a good cleaning before I ran it. I was lucky to find the piston and sleeve were in excellent condition with the original crosshatch honing marks still in the sleeve.

Some interesting things I found out were that it has an o-ring instead of a paper gasket on the rear cover plate, piston sleeve has tear drops filed into the edges of each intake port for better performance and the sleeve is press fit (requires heat to expand the case) unlike OS where it slides into place. Overall, I'd say the quality of this engine is as good if not better than OS. To my knowledge, this is a true ABC engine. When I got it back together the pinch at the top was so tight I thought maybe something was wrong.

I don't recall ever using a starter for this engine. A few flips and it's running. The Jet Stream carb is easy to tune and it's made of metal. When I first saw it I thought it was plastic like a Perry carb. It is definitely stronger than a 46 size engine. It's not really considered a speed engine but more for torque. 3D fliers like to use 12.25x3.75 props. Last year I ran an APC 10x8 on 15% fuel and got 12k rpm on the stock muffler, 12,600 rpm on stock muffler w/o baffle and 12,300 rpm on a Macs muffler for a 46FX. I may try an 11x7 on it this year.

If you ever find one in decent shape, jump on it! The 53's are lighter than the 40 and 46 with more power to boot.

One last thing. Before Irvine switched to OS for production, they made a "special edition" Irvine 53 that was black.

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Old 01-30-2011, 10:46 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

I have had several irvines and my 40mkII silver and 53mkIII red are my favorites, the 61mkIII red is very reliable also! I always thought the carbs were perry and not jetstream but I must have been in error, but that is what the old timers told me they were. The engines they produced with a plastic back plate and plastic carb were very poorly made and not near as reliable but the ones with metal carbs and a metal back plate always seemed to be better made and more reliable. I think at one period of time they really went cheap at the factory and paid for it in a much decreased reputation but then went back to all metal motors and carbs on the mkIII and produced some of the best engines ever until till they sold out to OS and I'm sure their engines are like the OS ax's, that are great out of the box, with no break in needed, but wear out rather quickly, which is TOO BAD!!! I'm sure their parts, since OS bought them, are unreasonably TOO high!!
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Old 01-31-2011, 03:57 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

Well OS aren't usually criticised for utterly basic failures in quality control like you described above.

Do you have any solid evidence to back your claims or are you just another internet r/c cowboy?

Well?


ORIGINAL: Mr Cox


ORIGINAL: dieselbloke

I have nine Irvines from 0.75cc and 1.3 cc diesels to the .25 ci red glows and certainly head leakage isn't a problem in any of them. One can't account for the incompetence of the consumer can one Mr Cox?
Well those are not the latest batch from OS as far as I know?
I really like the Irvine 20D myself, but that is also from the original manufacturing and true ABC (one should not have to use the word "true" but I don't know how to clairfy this in any other way).
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:22 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

ORIGINAL: w8ye
Looks like an old ASP 108 Red Head carb?
Thanks, I was trying to figure out what ASP engine had a carb like that. Technically, in my opinion, the carb was too big for even a 1.08 displacement engine. The inside bore is even larger than what is on my 1.20 engine carbs.
That carb sorta looks like some sort of a copy of a Italian engine carb, it has a Supertigre like look too it, maybe it was a copy of a Rossi carb or something.

Here is a boring video of me hand starting the engine and test running it on my engine test stand.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CQevRAb8TE[/youtube]



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Old 01-31-2011, 07:32 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

earlwb
The rod in your engine is fitted the wrong way round which means the piston may be too which means the ring gap may be in the wrong position. The photo showed a chamfer in the bush on the plain side of the rod which would mean the logo side faces to the rear. But just to be sure, and seeing I have a brand new Irvine similar to yours (except rear exhaust) I pulled the backplate for a look.
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:11 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

Oh wow! Thanks for the information. someone had took it apart before me and put it in wrong. I assumed that no one had take it apart before I did.
when i looked at the rod big end, it didn't see a chamfer on it as I was wondering about that myself. The pic I took sorta makes it look like there is though. The piston ring isn't pinned but floating. So I rotated the ring so the gap was in between some ports on the engine. I'll correct my earlier post about it.

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Old 01-31-2011, 12:25 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

Ialways enjoy a video of an engine being run.
My buddy Bruce of BruceRCengines.com had an identical engine to yours on his table at the swap meet yesterday and I continue to drool over it every time we set up next to each other.
Idid make a good trade with him for a sweet new Thunder Tiger 91 four stroke , but the Irvine remains out of my grasp.
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Old 01-31-2011, 02:16 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines


ORIGINAL: dieselbloke

Well OS aren't usually criticised for utterly basic failures in quality control like you described above.

Do you have any solid evidence to back your claims or are you just another internet r/c cowboy?

Well?
I have no idea what an internet r/c cowboy would be...?

I don't own any of the OS-Irvines myself, only Irvines from UK. I even have a few OS engines, but the only OS-Irvine I have seen close-up in real life was not a good one and it seems others are having similar issues. Apart from that, I know nothing about these engines. Now tell me why one cannot ever, ever question anything that OS makes, without being jumped on...

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Old 02-01-2011, 12:19 AM
  #42  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

Sorry mate....

Be more specific about "I even have a few OS engines, but the only OS-Irvine I have seen close-up in real life was not a good one and it seems others are having similar issues."

What problems did you encounter running an Irvine made from O.S. ?
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:20 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

It was stated earlier in this thread, the engine was low on power and the head leaked.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:08 AM
  #44  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

I have 3 of the older Irvine 61 engines (1) ringed rear exhaust , (1) ringed side exhaust & (1) ABC side exhaust.
I've found the OS 7L or 6H to work very well on them.

The RE engine had an Irvine carb with a huge bore and was setup with a Mac 15cc tuned pipe, good for pretty much 3/4 throttle & up only. Well the carb barrel left the carb in mid flight one day after searching the field with a metal detector for way too long I put a 7L carb and a quiet pipe on it for better midrange throttling and had much more fun with it.

Both SE engines run great with the 7L or the 6H carbs & stock mufflers on them.
I have the ringed 61SE on My BigMcDDD spad
There not the most powerful 60's but with new Dykes rings from Frank Bowman & Os carbs they start easy & run very reliably on wildcat 5% nitro 24% syn/castor fuel & a Hot glow plug.

I think they are great engines for there age.
I like all the ports that are in the cylinder liner, it reminds Me of some really old school 2 strokes from way back in My GoKart days.

Jeff
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:54 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

Downunder,
      the plot thickens on the Irvine .61 engines and the connecting rods.
I found my other Irvine .61 engine. For some odd reason it was in a old Moki engine box, and I was wondering where and when I had obtained a Moki, so I opened it up, and there was the missing .61 engine. This one has a real Irvine carb on it too. But when I removed the backplate to check the connecting rod orientation, I found the rod was different and it didn't have a logo on it either. Also the crankshaft is somewhat different in that it has a round shape with cutouts in the rear portion whereas the engine I tore apart and rebuilt has a "D" shape rear portion on the crank.

So I wonder which engine was made first. I would think that the one with the CNC machined connecting rod, that is this engine, was a later model versus the engine I rebuilt that used a cast crankshaft was a earlier model.

So it looks like the hole that was drilled in the crankshaft big end should face towards the front of the engine. Of course getting into technical stuff, what advantage is there to having the lubricating hole on the big end of the rod facing forward versus facing to the rear. Does it improve lubrication? Or does it even matter? it isn't just Irvine engines, I have seen this on numerous other brand engines too.

The other Irvine 61 engine I have:


Here is the connecting rod in this engine and the different shape crankshaft:


The crankshaft from the engine I tore apart and rebuilt.

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Old 02-02-2011, 02:21 AM
  #46  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

Guys....i guess we must make-up our minds and suggest
whether or not an O.S. made Irvine

is a good low-cost alternative to other sport glow-rc engines...

IMO this is a very good,low-cost, sport engine

that i would easily install on a newbie's trainer...
or on the 1st low-wing trainer of someone...

Some of the characteristics are:
ease of starting-maintenance,
good PowerToWeight ratio &
good construction.

Kostas
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:00 AM
  #47  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

I don't know for sure, but here in the USA the OS-Irvine engines cost more than OS engines do. It is the bad Euro to US dollar conversion rate that is causing the problem. Also OS engines have a bad Yen to US dollar conversion rate too. So even OS engines are expensive in the USA.
So if the Euro cost for a OS-Irvine engine is good in Europe then the engines would likely be a good deal and usable for newbies or beginners there in Europe. The 54.74 Euros for a 40MK 4 and the 67.49 Euros for a 46 MK4 and the 97.49 Euros for a 53 MK4 look like good prices in Europe (from Just Engines). I just don't know how someone in Europe perceives the Euro cost for a OS-Irvine engine.

The Chinese used to have a terrible time making good carburetors for the engines. the engines themselves would be OK, but the carbs would invariably be bad or defective. But replacing the carb with a better carb was very expensive and sort of defeated the purpose of buying the cheap engine. But lately the Chinese seem to have figured out how to make carburetors so the Chinese engines are working out a lot better now. So then the ASP engines are a reasonable choice now. But there is still some risk of getting a engine with a not so good carb though.

But then OS makes really good carbs that work great. I have not really read or heard about anyone having a bad OS carb. So in my opinion the OS-Irvine engine would be a good way to go for someone first starting out. Since the beginner type trainer planes use engines like the 40 and 46 engines, that would be a good way to go.

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Old 02-02-2011, 06:42 AM
  #48  
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Default RE: Irvine Engines

ORIGINAL: earlwb
...the crankshaft is somewhat different in that it has a round shape with cutouts in the rear portion whereas the engine I tore apart and rebuilt has a ''D'' shape rear portion on the crank.
I just checked the crankshaft (via the backplate) in my 61R and it's different again. The visible end is flat and round but I can feel cutouts for the counterweight on the bearing side so it's kind of like the crankshaft in your engine with the machined rod except reversed.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:03 AM
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Default RE: Irvine Engines


ORIGINAL: Kostas1
Some of the characteristics are:
ease of starting-maintenance,
good PowerToWeight ratio &
good construction.
Well, how many engines have you had from OS-Irvine and other manufacturers to compare with, in order to make such claims?
Do you have any engine that does not fulfill those criteria?

I think they are priced somewhere in between OS and ASP here in Europe but I haven't checked that in detail. With ASP you get a twin needle carb and true ABC even for their smallest engines, something you cannot get from OS or OS-Irvine for instance...

They may well work for sport use and beginners, but the fact remains, they are far from what Irvine used to be. It's a classic use, and abuse, of a well established product and brand name to me.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: Irvine Engines


ORIGINAL: earlwb

I don't know for sure, but here in the USA the OS-Irvine engines cost more than OS engines do. It is the bad Euro to US dollar conversion rate that is causing the problem. Also OS engines have a bad Yen to US dollar conversion rate too. So even OS engines are expensive in the USA.
I'm a bit surprised we didn't see more Irvines in the states after OS started making them. Perhaps the price remained the same or a slight price increase after the OS/Irvine introduction would explain that. For Irvine/OS, they lowered production costs. From a consumer point, I think you're getting less for the money, ie. OS carb vs Jetstream carb, nickle liner vs chrome liner and other internal changes. The end user may not notice any change in performance but longevity may be reduced.

I use to run OS engines exclusively. My Irvine 53 MkIII opened me to other engine brands such as Rossi, YS and Super Tigre.
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