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Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine

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Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine

Old 04-29-2011, 02:36 PM
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smoknrv4
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Default Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine

I'm looking for tuning information on what size of prop and rpm to expect for a Rossi side exhaust 40 engine with a full pipe, trimming the header will probably still be needed, but I need some info on what to aim for... I beleive its the sport engine. Its going in a Diamond Dust, so I was thinking of running a 9x7,9x8 for the flight prop, does this sound about right?
I'm not very familier with Rossi engines.
Thanks
Old 04-29-2011, 03:20 PM
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rambler53
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Default RE: Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine

9X6 is a good match for the .40 engine, and you can expect 16,000 rpm or more. It won't swing the 9X8.
These engines like a lighter load, higher RPM. Too many use it like an OS using larger props, and fail to see the potential of the engine.
Old 04-29-2011, 03:46 PM
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Default RE: Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine

It's going to be a rocket when you are done.
Old 04-29-2011, 04:05 PM
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Default RE: Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine

One club member was trying to fly a MAch Racer with a Rossi .40 and a 9x10 or 9x9. It was clearly overpitched. I suggested a 9x6 or 9x7.
Old 04-29-2011, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine

Rossi engines do not like nitro...if there are head shims put them in before you try to tune. No more than 5% nitro or it will make you crazy.

Mike
Old 04-29-2011, 07:35 PM
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djlyon
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Default RE: Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine

I have run one of my Rossi's on a full pipe. Didn't get much over 17on a 9/7 apc but didn't put much effort in to tuning it. With a Rossi tuned muffler or a performance specialties short tuned muffler I was able to get into the mid to high 18s with a 9/6 apc. The Rossi tuned muffler that comes with the engine is a little long for going much higher and might not unload all it can get in the air. The performance specialties will unload better. I would think a full pipe should get to 19. This is all on 15% nitro with what ever shims are necessary for the extra nitro. Probably about .003 to .008 more than what is there. Generally if you try to run it with more than 5% as it comes from the factory the motor will get angry at you and show it.

Denis
Old 05-01-2011, 12:13 AM
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Default RE: Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine

Denis,


Rossi have two black tuned mufflers for their .40-.53 engines.

The [link=http://shop.vendio.com/RossiEnginesUSA/item/2041284246/index.html]#4015[/link] is good for up to ~16K.
Anything that needs to be spun faster, would best be equipped with the shorter #4011. It is good up to and beyond 20K RPM.

Read [link=http://www.rossienginesusa.us/SGME/RossiEnginesUSA/Rossi_Instructions.pdf]right here[/link] to see how much RPM bogs down, when load is increased...
3,200 RPM were lost when changing with the #4011, from an APC 9x7 to a 9x8; clearly the best indication the engine has gone 'off-the pipe'...

With the #4015, the engine only lost just 400 RPM due to this change.


EDIT: Wording.
Old 05-03-2011, 10:32 AM
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Default RE: Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine

Hi Dar

I knew I was running with the longer Rossi tuned muffler. I was running the Rossi in this configuration just out of curiosity I didn't have the short Rossi muffler and that's why I used the Performance specialties muffler. Even though both mufflers turned a 9/6 in the mid 18s on the ground the Rossi muffler was clearly way over the top and with the PS muffler the engine was just getting on the pipe at a little over 17.5. It was on a quickie 500 and I flew it this way. It unloaded nicely in the air. I would guess speed around 140+ but who knows. The sound of the engine always fools me into thinking fast. It was clearly under proped though. It needed a racing prop at this point to make it go and make it safe. A 9/6 APC at more than 19K is not a good idea. I learned what I wanted. I also did the same thing with a TT40 PRO and the same PS muffler and prop. It only turned about 300 rpm less on the ground than the Rossi but it was giving about all it could give to get on the pipe and stay there and in the air didn' t unload like the Rossi but was still fast.
The curiosity thing was because we were debating here the speed and cost of our 428 (Q500) pylon class. Should we slow it down and make it cheaper or leave it alone. The outcome was an additional new class 426 which only allows a Jett Super Sport (detuned Q500 engine)

Denis
Old 05-03-2011, 09:37 PM
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Default RE: Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine

Denis,


Look deeply into the info from RossiEnginesUSA...

It seems the Nelson Racing UltraThrust lost there severely. I suspect this Rossi Q500 engine could not 'get on the pipe' with it at any RPM.
I would expect much more from it... I wonder if the same would result from the black JettStream muffler, which is intended for the same purpose.

Old 05-04-2011, 02:32 PM
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Default RE: Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine

Hi Dar

I looked at those numbers and don't understand any of them. I was not running a Rossi Q500 motor. Mine is just a standard 3 port 40. On an older 3 port motor I could get 16.5 with a 9/6 apc using the old pop rivet muffler. The PS muffler (Nelson Ultra thrust) I was using was the sport racing. It is the same as the racing I believe (I never measured the inner pipe) except for the header which fits engines like the TT40 PRO and slightly cants the muffler away from the fuselage. It fits the Rossi using an adapter plate made by SG. I don't believe he makes an adapter plate that will fit the regular Nelson racing muffler to a Rossi. Hole spacing.

A TT40 PRO with it's stock expansion chamber muffler (baffle in) properly broke in with appropriate shim changes will typically turn a 9/6 at 16.8 to 17.2 on the ground. If it doesn't you set it aside for a practice motor . At least all that is true in California air. Put on the Ultra thrust sport racing and it goes up to 18.2 to 18.4. I use that configuration for first flights on a new quickie before putting a Nelson on just to get the rough trim and check to make sure nothing ugly is going to happen.

I'm stumped by his numbers. It could be that the Rossi Q500 is just not ported for what he was trying to do. But if it was a real Q500 motor it should have been able to get on the pipe with a 9/6. I wonder about vibration with that stand he was using. I just don't know.

Denis
Old 05-04-2011, 07:50 PM
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Default RE: Help W/ Tuning info for Rossi .40 FISE engine


ORIGINAL: djlyon

Hi Dar

I looked at those numbers and don't understand any of them. I was not running a Rossi Q500 motor. Mine is just a standard 3 port 40. On an older 3 port motor I could get 16.5 with a 9/6 apc using the old pop rivet muffler. The PS muffler (Nelson Ultra thrust) I was using was the sport racing. It is the same as the racing I believe (I never measured the inner pipe) except for the header which fits engines like the TT40 PRO and slightly cants the muffler away from the fuselage. It fits the Rossi using an adapter plate made by SG. I don't believe he makes an adapter plate that will fit the regular Nelson racing muffler to a Rossi. Hole spacing.

A TT40 PRO with it's stock expansion chamber muffler (baffle in) properly broke in with appropriate shim changes will typically turn a 9/6 at 16.8 to 17.2 on the ground. If it doesn't you set it aside for a practice motor . At least all that is true in California air. Put on the Ultra thrust sport racing and it goes up to 18.2 to 18.4. I use that configuration for first flights on a new quickie before putting a Nelson on just to get the rough trim and check to make sure nothing ugly is going to happen.

I'm stumped by his numbers. It could be that the Rossi Q500 is just not ported for what he was trying to do. But if it was a real Q500 motor it should have been able to get on the pipe with a 9/6. I wonder about vibration with that stand he was using. I just don't know.

Denis
Denis,


I really need to get on the horn and ask Sahak about this...

The RPM numbers on the #4011, #4015 and Sport UT seem to indicate that engine is in sound condition.


I remember a customer's MVVS Quickie engine, set-up in rear-exaust configuration, which could only get to 13k on an APC 8.5x6.5N and the #3246 Quickie tuned-silencer.
Re-setting it in SE configuration, got it to 17K, with the same prop and exhaust.

But this certainly ain't the case with the one-piece-crankcase Rossi Q500 engine.

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