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Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

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Old 03-24-2013, 02:12 AM
  #226
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine


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ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

I've read this thread on and off for awhile and I am still a bit perplexed as to gasoline working with a glow plug using a catalytic type of reaction like glow fuel. I would only assume there is some sort of metal alloy wire that will create the same effect with gasoline as platinum alloys do with methanol. Old wisdom would say it doesn't work but in this day and age nothing is impossible, really.

I look forward to seeing further experiments with this engine.
The catalytic reaction also occurs with other similar hydrocarbons beside methanol.

Gas has been used as a methanol substitute for up to 20% of the latter in B class tram racers for 50 years.

It's discussed earlier in the thread.

If the "special" plug is an OS P3 Turbo, then I'm really curious as to what the difference is between the NV 40 gas and glow.

Ray
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Old 03-24-2013, 03:35 AM
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

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ORIGINAL: triumphman49

1QwkSport2.5r

Have seen reports here that the OS Turbo P3 plugs will work fine as a replacement for the
NV plug furnished.
I have little interest in gasoline as a model engine fuel. I do like to see some innovation though.


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ORIGINAL: qazimoto


Quote:
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

I've read this thread on and off for awhile and I am still a bit perplexed as to gasoline working with a glow plug using a catalytic type of reaction like glow fuel. I would only assume there is some sort of metal alloy wire that will create the same effect with gasoline as platinum alloys do with methanol. Old wisdom would say it doesn't work but in this day and age nothing is impossible, really.

I look forward to seeing further experiments with this engine.
The catalytic reaction also occurs with other similar hydrocarbons beside methanol.

Gas has been used as a methanol substitute for up to 20% of the latter in B class tram racers for 50 years.

It's discussed earlier in the thread.

If the ''special'' plug is an OS P3 Turbo, then I'm really curious as to what the difference is between the NV 40 gas and glow.

Ray
I know the gas/glow guys use up to 66.6% gasoline to 33.4% glow fuel to keep the glow plug lit, so 20% gasoline in glow fuel is nothing in hindsight. Not sure how well the reaction will work with pure gas/oil. I experimented with my weed wacker and a glow plug with unsatisfactory results, and I used a HOT 4-cycle plug. Saw a YouTube video of a guy running a trimmer on gas/oil and a hot glow plug without the need to keep the plug lit. Didn't work well for me.

I've been watching the thread to see how well the glow plug works and how well it holds up. I am personally not sold on the idea, especially using expensive turbo plugs. I'm on the fence, so pardon my skepticism. I'm not shooting the concept down, just skeptical as I'm sure many others are.

What is the cylinder/piston construction in this engine? Ringed?
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:18 AM
  #228
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

Quote:
I've read this thread on and off for awhile and I am still a bit perplexed as to gasoline working with a glow plug using a catalytic type of reaction like glow fuel.
It doesn't have a catalytic reaction, it is simply reacting to the heat of the glow plug. The glow plug needs to be hotter. It retains heat to the next cycle. Much like a red hot exhaust valve causes preignition, only this is controlled by the heat range of the glow plug. See the gas/glow threads in the engine conversion forum, there is some success with pure gas and a really hot plug, or an on board glow ignitor..
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:00 AM
  #229
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine


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ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Quote:
I've read this thread on and off for awhile and I am still a bit perplexed as to gasoline working with a glow plug using a catalytic type of reaction like glow fuel.
It doesn't have a catalytic reaction, it is simply reacting to the heat of the glow plug. The glow plug needs to be hotter. It retains heat to the next cycle. Much like a red hot exhaust valve causes preignition, only this is controlled by the heat range of the glow plug. See the gas/glow threads in the engine conversion forum, there is some success with pure gas and a really hot plug, or an on board glow ignitor..
It kinda puts me off because for a glow plug to stay that hot, it would make sense that it wouldn't last as long. Hotter plug = thinner coil. It the wire gets too hot it'll simply melt. Gasoline burning that much hotter than methanol must drive a fine line between longevity and reliability. Being a turbo plug lends me to believe the Turbos are hotter plugs yet plus they seal better. Not my idea of a money saver since Turbo plugs are about $2-3 more than standard plugs at the hobby shop. If there is a spec sheet from Norvel available for this engine, or even the owners manual, I wouldn't mind seeing it. Any links to this or is it still hush hush?
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:17 AM
  #230
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

There is far more to a turbo plug than just bottom sealing. In my 45 years of flying, in 80% of the cases I have to replace the plug on a nitro motor after break in. With the turbo plug on this one, I have broken in and tested 2 motors with the same plug and a year later it is still functioning perfectly.

Anyone who uses a nelson turbo plug on a 1/2a motor will tell you the same story. On average they outlast a standard glow plug by 3X. In a high compression, high nitro, high rpm environment, the nelson turbo will outlast the standard by 10X. For a couple of bucks more, this is indeed a bargin.

Bill
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:33 AM
  #231
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

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ORIGINAL: hllywdb

There is far more to a turbo plug than just bottom sealing. In my 45 years of flying, in 80% of the cases I have to replace the plug on a nitro motor after break in. With the turbo plug on this one, I have broken in and tested 2 motors with the same plug and a year later it is still functioning perfectly.

Anyone who uses a nelson turbo plug on a 1/2a motor will tell you the same story. On average they outlast a standard glow plug by 3X. In a high compression, high nitro, high rpm environment, the nelson turbo will outlast the standard by 10X. For a couple of bucks more, this is indeed a bargin.

Bill
Those little 1/2a engines lose a lot of rpm if you run them on standard glow plugs versus the glow heads (ie: cox or AP). Turbo plugs are the happy medium between a glow head and a standard glow plug for those not wanting to or unable to use 1 piece glow heads. Is this Norvel .40 engine a high compression, high rpm, high nitro capable engine or is it timed to run like most other .40's? I would think power would be a little less than a glow .40?

I am not knocking it. FYI. I am just trying to understand how in the world a regular nelson plug will stay lit on gasoline only... Is it one of those "It just works" types of things?

I'm inexperienced compared to most guys here, I'm just trying to learn a thing or two here. I'm an engine nerd and always like a 'outside the box' type of engine.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:56 AM
  #232
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

I'm not an engineer so for me it falls into the "It just works" catgory. That being said, it's more than just slapping a turbo plug into a glow motor. The carb is different as well as the head. Can't say on the timing.

As to the 1/2a stuff, on my modified ame I will get 2 hot flights on the stock 1 piece glow plug. I get 6 months on the nelson. Same goes for my TD's on pressure. I even ran a nelson on my cox medallion just because I hate changing out the cox heads too often. Thats low compression low rpm, but it just lasts a lot longer. As I said, the turbo plugs generally last much longer.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:18 AM
  #233
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine


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ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r



I'm inexperienced compared to most guys here, I'm just trying to learn a thing or two here. I'm an engine nerd and always like a 'outside the box' type of engine.
well don't expect to learn much from this thread other than that we are supposed to believe a small company has come up with the greatest innovation in model engines yet they don't say anything about it on their web site and the only person "testing" this holy grail of an engine isn't an engineer but just "knows that it works"....

...and if by some fluke they did get regular old gas to work with a regular glow plug (which a turbo plug is) the engine would be gutless compared to any other sport .40 running on regular glow fuel...but no, we are supposed to believe it makes awesome power.

no, you aren't going to learn anything here...unless you want to run a scam.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:35 AM
  #234
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

In full size cars at least, higher compression is needed for methanol or nitro.  The high compression is very hard on any plug and is likely what is causing premature plug failure.  Nelson style, Turbo/Merlin plugs are no more $$ than standard plugs, and are actually cheaper than the everloved OS #8's.  I have had one dud that didn't last long, but the others seem pretty good so far.  I haven't had a chance to try the Cox style Merlin ones yet. What I am trying to get at is the gasoline may be less compression than with nitro, and could last longer.  Hot plugs normally have a finer wire and blow faster, but still may last with lower compression as the gas likely needs.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:38 AM
  #235
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

just watched the video for the first time and looks like they also figure out how to use silicone fuel tubing with gas...now THAT is cool!
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:44 AM
  #236
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

I'll wait before I spend the $$ for the new motor for more testing, and am a member of the 'pessimist club',  but would still like to check one out anyway.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:44 AM
  #237
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

That's K&S stay-flex (gas line) the tygon doesn't work as well with the smaller fittings on this unless you safty wire them. Especially on the exhaust nipple with the higher heat.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:45 AM
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ZAGNUT


Quote:
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r



I'm inexperienced compared to most guys here, I'm just trying to learn a thing or two here. I'm an engine nerd and always like a 'outside the box' type of engine.
well don't expect to learn much from this thread other than that we are supposed to believe a small company has come up with the greatest innovation in model engines yet they don't say anything about it on their web site and the only person ''testing'' this holy grail of an engine isn't an engineer but just ''knows that it works''....

...and if by some fluke they did get regular old gas to work with a regular glow plug (which a turbo plug is) the engine would be gutless compared to any other sport .40 running on regular glow fuel...but no, we are supposed to believe it makes awesome power.

no, you aren't going to learn anything here...unless you want to run a scam.
For this reason I asked about a spec sheet and owners manual for the engine. "It just works" isn't a good enough reason for me.

My auto shop teacher always said " if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is ". Until this hush-hush engine gets some info published out there, I have to stay on the fence with this one. Indeed I will learn something here, but whether that be something constructive or not remains to be seen (read).

So... When is Norvel going to publish some real world info on this engine?
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:47 AM
  #239
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

It's part number LXYE85 from Tower.
Zagnut, do you ever do any actual research or just spend your time posting about the 3rd shooter on the gassy knoll? It gets a bit old after a while.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:59 AM
  #240
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

"the gassy knoll"?
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:05 AM
  #241
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

Hey all,

I've got a question about the Turbo Plugs. Can you put them in a regular glow head, or does the head have to be special machined to accept the taper?

Have another Russian engine MVVS 120T that very few seem to be able to get to run effectively. Has a Walbro carb and adjustment for glow seems ineffective. Was planning on gas & an ignition for it, but thought mabey these Turbo Plugs may make a diference.


P.S. Almost feels like a 3rd World country with the mail service here. My payment was
3\18 and still waiting . . . . . !

T-man49 in AL
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:11 AM
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

Zagnut, it's called a "Pun"

T-man,
No, the head needs to be machined to take a tubo plug as they have a tapered seat on the bottom, not threaded all the way through.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:12 AM
  #243
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine


Quote:
ORIGINAL: hllywdb

It's part number LXYE85 from Tower.
Zagnut, do you ever do any actual research or just spend your time posting about the 3rd shooter on the gassy knoll? It gets a bit old after a while.
i've been playing with model engines for over 30 years and i do know how they work as well as how they don't work....along with all the whys in between.

with the way you and the other NV reps handle things on the forums you aren't coming off as anywhere near genuine....almost like you took a page from the jim drew marketing manual.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:15 AM
  #244
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine


Quote:
ORIGINAL: hllywdb

Zagnut, it's called a ''Pun''
you sure about that?
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:25 AM
  #245
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

As a member of the "Pessimist's Club" I still don't believe that the model diesels work without even a glow plug. ;-) I found most heads don't have enogh meat on to install a Turbo plug, and a new head needs to be made. I did one for a Turbo on an old Rossi plug to use in the Fox .15 and it runs with all the rest of them now. The original head was veeeery low compression and slow. It does work nice though. I think the compression, carb, and plug has to be just right on the gasoline to work good. Leave it to the Soviets, they will get it done with enough time.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:26 AM
  #246
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

Zagnut,

Have you got a sling? Seems like you might need it after patting yourself on the back so hard.

1QwkSport2.5r , with 3500 post, if your "inexperienced" . . . . they don"t even have a rating for someone like me. LOL Have followed your posts in the Saito, K&B, and conversion forums and try to learn a lot from your experiences.

T-man49 in Al
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:34 AM
  #247
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine


Quote:
ORIGINAL: triumphman49

Zagnut,

Have you got a sling? Seems like you might need it after patting yourself on the back so hard.

1QwkSport2.5r , with 3500 post, if your ''inexperienced'' . . . . they don''t even have a rating for someone like me. LOL Have followed your posts in the Saito, K&B, and conversion forums and try to learn a lot from your experiences.

T-man49 in Al
Yeah, "inexperienced", I have gotten a lot of help from 1QwkSport2.5r too.

Anyway, I don't deny that this engine is good. But you have to realize in the real world, there is always a design compromise. But here, even if there were some slight performance loss (I'm not sure there really is, except that you have to run a bigger prop than the glow version), the cost savings are substantial. You are running $6/gal gas instead of $18/gal glow fuel. I would think that would make up for any drawbacks.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:55 AM
  #248
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

For the record guys, I don't work for NV, I don't get paid by NV, I don't own a hobby shop, and I don't sell NV motors. I was simply fortunate to be asked to test some motors for them. I started using their 1/2a motors years ago and liked them. I moved on through the 25's and 40's and have been just as happy. I also own and fly OS motors, Cox, Enya, Fox, K&B, Webra, GMS, and Magnum and like most of them. I also have been happy with DLE and DA motors, not so much with the MDS ones.

While I applaud the efforts of the 60 and 90 conversion gas engines as far as getting the ball rolling, I can't see adding the weight and complexity of ignition, another servo and switch for ignition shut off, just to produce more weight and less power than a nitro. This motor works for me as it makes more power than the nitro, is super light and sips fuel at 1/3 the rate of my nitro motors. I was skeptical at first but I like this engine a lot more than I thought I would.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:03 AM
  #249
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

Can you put a link for the Nelson turbo plugs please. Thanks for stay flex hose #going to order some. Thanks Bill
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:12 AM
  #250
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Default RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoline glow engine

erieqc ,
I buy mine from Larry Driscal at http://www.kittingittogether.com/

He also has the Galbreath heads to go with them. Larry is a great guy to do bussiness with as many on this forum will agree, as well as being a competition legend.

Bill
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