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Thread: bad engines


  1. #26
    lopflyers's Avatar
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    RE: bad engines

    Moki, stay away from those. Real PITA.
    Saito & OS are the real winners
    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  2. #27
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    RE: bad engines


    ORIGINAL: rcguy59

    There's a saying at our field: ''Cox and Fox, leave 'em in the box.''* Good advice.
    I might be temped to agree regards Fox, but as to Cox? Sounds like bad grapes from people who can't handle small engines.

    As to Hobbsy's comment, I agree 50% but there has been and still is some crap on the market, and I've seen so many instances where the people who got lucky enough to buy good examples of a particular engine swear there is no problem with a brand as if their statistical pool of one or two engines tells the whole story. Like GMS for example - the crowd who have not encountered a bad carb say they're great and that other people are imagining the problem. You get people that own one, and it works, arguing as if they've tested 100 of them.
    I try to be pessimistic, but why bother?

  3. #28

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    RE: bad engines

    I like most glow engines but not real fond of super tigre but thats just me. Have a freind that loves em, I would say that OS s my first choice. I am hearing that OS is or will be made in China?

  4. #29
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    RE: bad engines


    ORIGINAL: rcguy59

    There's a saying at our field: "Cox and Fox, leave 'em in the box." Good advice.

    Cox in its day was the strongest 1/2A engine out there. The older Fox's need long breakins and the carb tunes diffiently. And yes some models, only a few, were dogs. However, the modern Fox's made today break in easily (Thanks to CNC machining), especially the ABC versions, and have a carb second to none.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  5. #30
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    RE: bad engines

    No "bad grapes" here. I just never realized how bad the Cox engines were until I got my mitts on some Norvels. Way back when, the Cox's were all we had. That DIDN'T make them good.
    Jet Central Superbee & Rabbit
    18MZ FASSTest for everything I fly

  6. #31

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    RE: bad engines

    There are no bad engines. Just bad people who attempted to operate them.
    There is of course a case of a bad apple once in a while.
    The Pamster
    AMA 202345

  7. #32

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    RE: bad engines

    Each maker has it's personalities. I have several from most of the popular ones out there. I have a Blue head .61 Super Tigre that has more time on it then I could count. A real old Fox .40, K&B, O.S. OPS. Webra, Rossi, Cox, Magnum, YS, Jet, Traxxas, (not sure who really makes it), Tower Hobbies, Como ( total POS) Ervine, Thunder Tiger, or as they used to be know, Thunder Blunder, QA was iffy at best.

    It takes a special breed of person to run Cox engines. You just need to be able to use a lot of dark magic, cauldrons, spells and sacrifices to get them to run well. I have a box of worn out parts.

    Of the newer engines I have or have setup. The Magnum .61 and the .46 have been about as easy as it gets. Followed the directions and that has been a pure fun engine. Flip starts easily.

    O.S. I have a few, I have had good luck and bad luck. My bad luck was the FX line of engines. Peeled like a sun burned kids back. Yet I have 20 year old FP that run fine.

    I would have to say my favorite engines are Super Tigre's. Well the Italian ones any way. I (2) newer, in the past 2 years and they run fine. Easy to break in and good power.

    My YS .63 has an amazing amount of power for its size. Seems there are two types of them. Ones that run without any trouble, or ones that have nothing but trouble. Mine has been great. I did have to replace the diaphragm after it started acting up.

    Fox, slow to break in, lasts longer then most people. May take gallons of fuel to do it right.

    K&B engines, they can run real well or fail miserably. I have not heard of any one running all synthetic oils in them. I always have some in the fuel. The AAC liners can be finicky.

    I am surprised at how few people really understand how to tune an engine. I watch as they use a tach to get that last RPM out on the bench and then complain it flames out. They can not figure it out. They do not even know they just did a lean run. Watched one guy try 3 different fuels, 8 glow plugs and then figured the engine was the problem. He was running a 12X7 on a Magnum .46. Could not understand why he could not get any type of RPM out of it.

    Most newer engines will serve you well. Each has its own tuning issues. you can not tune a YS like yo do an O.S. nor can you tune an O.S. like you do a Webra.

    I have only had one engine I could not get to run. It was an old Como .20. Never ran over 20 seconds. Never did figure out why.


    Buzz.

  8. #33
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    RE: bad engines

    That's what they said about Vegas and Yugos, too.
    Jet Central Superbee & Rabbit
    18MZ FASSTest for everything I fly

  9. #34
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    RE: bad engines

    Any brand of engine has some that aren't created equal ... Usually the less expensive the grater the chances they will be a LEMON  no mater the make if it gives U trouble just put it on the shelf and obtain another ... Screwing with a motor that doesn't start Idle and run well or consistantly first of all is not worth the frustraion. This hobby is all about FUN. If it ain't FUN it ain't worth doing. 2nd most planes are worth far more than the price of another motor. Until U become an accomplished flyer and willing to learn to keep the plane with gluiding distance of the runway at all times, Dead Sticks can be very unnerving.  But I find them much easier than powered landings ... In fact I usual y make at least 10 touch 'N' Go's per flight and the last landing I take My U'CAN-DO way up and shut it off and do aerobatics all the way down and the proof of a good landing is the least number of steps to retrieve the plane from the runway. Most times I park it right next to where I started ... Yes I brag. but doing that really takes the Pucker factor out of Dead sticks. Ever notice "LETRICS" almost all ways land with the prop stopped ... "DEAD STICK"
      Rember Runway behind U and Altitude  above u and fuel in the bottle  are some of the most useless commidities in this HOBBY?SPORT
    Remember ... Every one of these Things we fly Comes with a Number, When the R/C Gods call that Number, it's going in a Garbage Bag, No Sniveling Allowed.
    P-47 Thunderbolt Brotherhood #24 & #43

  10. #35

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    RE: bad engines

    So far they're all bad and all good.
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    Nothing difficult is ever easy.
    Spitfire Brotherhood #44

  11. #36
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    RE: bad engines


    ORIGINAL: rcguy59

    No "bad grapes" here. I just never realized how bad the Cox engines were until I got my mitts on some Norvels. Way back when, the Cox's were all we had. That DIDN'T make them good.
    Cox put the others out of business. The Norvels were good but not sure they were better than a Tee Dee for raw power. Yet the Tee Dee dates back to 1960. Better controlability for RC for sure, but not sure their 1/2A or .048 is more powerfull.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  12. #37
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    RE: bad engines

    The Cox engines had their day, but that was long ago and you can't get there from here. A lot of us started on them, and many, such as myself, abandoned them as soon as we could. The Norvels had their quirks, to be sure, but were light-years ahead of Cox in most respects. My Norvels get flown regularly and are no more cantankerous than any of my other engines. That's more than I can say for any Cox engine I ever owned. It's just progress, I guess. As time goes on, things tend to get better and what was once "good" now seems less so compared to more modern offerings.
    Jet Central Superbee & Rabbit
    18MZ FASSTest for everything I fly

  13. #38
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    RE: bad engines

    I had a great eXperience with Italian built Supertigre .61 (which I stupidly sold!!); OS and MVVS.
    My worst experience was with GMS; a brand that tower hobbies use to sell... I'don't recall to land my poor plane with the engine running...
    I have had a decent experience with a chinesse built Supertigre .90; as reliable and powerfull as the Italian 61...

    Normally; just stay away from new low price brands, just pay a little bit more and get a good engine... there is my list:

    Glow: OS, MVVS, Magnum, YS, Supertigre...
    Gas: 3W, SAITO, Mintor, DLE, DA...

    ... and stay away from electric, those makes your model to become a toy!!! HAHAHAHAHA
    Exocet Engineering & Design; Maranello (ITA).

  14. #39

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    RE: bad engines


    ORIGINAL: rcguy59

    There's a saying at our field: ''Cox and Fox, leave 'em in the box.''* Good advice.
    I have used quite a few engines by both Cox and Fox. They have all performed their tasks in a most satisfactory manner.

    It is my observation that in most cases dissatisfaction with an engine is caused by selecting an engine unsuited to the desired use or failing to understand/learn the peculiarities of the engine in question.

    Jess

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    RE: bad engines

    THERE ARE NOT ANY BAD ENGINES THERE > MAKE SURE THERE IS THE RIGHT FUEL LINE THE RIGHT FUEL AND GO SLOW ON SETTING THE ENGINE CARB>>

  16. #41
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    RE: bad engines

    Go to the Dark Side
    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  17. #42

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    RE: bad engines


    ORIGINAL: rcguy59

    No ''bad grapes'' here. I just never realized how bad the Cox engines were until I got my mitts on some Norvels. Way back when, the Cox's were all we had. That DIDN'T make them good.


    I had a love/hate relationship with Cox engines, probably because I always tried to run them on 10% nitro model fuel most of the time. Those engines demanded high nitro fuel.

    I had the most success with the Cox .049/.051 engines and the least with the Cox Medallion .15. I flew the latter in my control line days, which was before electric starters were popular. I usually can get anything running in short order, but not that Medallion .15. I still have it in a container somewhere downstairs. I think I bought it in 1966, at the Luke AFB hobbyshop.


    Ed Cregger
    \"Practice makes prefect\"

    Saito Club Member #52

  18. #43

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    RE: bad engines

    You need a new slogan or a new field. Cox and Fox brand engines are both excellent if broken in according to instructions and maintained at least in an average manner.

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    RE: bad engines

    i know mds engines have a bad rap, they run best on low nitro fuel 0-5% take an extremely long time to break in, i love my mds 68 engine, it flies circles around my os and rossi .61s, i have several other mds engines that have been great performers for me. i have over 100 engines in my collection, i have a liitle bit of everything and i don't have a bad engine in the bunch. some engines can have its quirks and must be addressed before running reliably. there is a guy who posted on this thread stay away from moki, i have never had any issues with mokis, they are amazing engines and the only problem i have with them is running out of fuel. He probably couldn't tune in a radio station anyway if he is bad mouthing a moki

  20. #45

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    RE: bad engines

    I have had an occasional glow "lemon", but to say that a particular manufacturer is bad or good? There are some better than others...and that is subjective to the point of what one finds to best fill their needs(economy, longevity, performance, ect.). Sure hard to beat O.S. Engines if you are new to the hobby or don't run your engines much. Likewise, once you have gained a little experience and seek optimal performance there is every reason to seek out a YS engine among others. Perhaps economy is more important than performance...nothing wrong with Fox, but you will be spending a lot more time on the break in. Knowledge is key, otherwise you will have a frustrating experience. Be sure to read the directions...yes read ALL of the directions. If the manufacturer omitted critical information (like nitro content, correct plug) a site search here on RCU might yield some good info...but you have to read into the forums a bit. Going to the field and asking for help may work if you ask the right person. Many of the engines mentioned as Bad are only as Bad as the nummy working on it.

  21. #46

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    RE: bad engines


    ORIGINAL: lkruse
    ir
    You need a new slogan or a new field. Cox and Fox brand engines are both excellent if broken in according to instructions and maintained at least in an average manner.


    I never had a real mechanical problem with a Cox engine. My only problem was getting the .15 hand started. It always started eventually, but sometimes it took a while.

    Fox engines always started easily for me, but some of their engines had problems wearing out prematurely in the connecting wrist pin area if you didn't follow their fuel recommendations.


    Ed Cregger
    \"Practice makes prefect\"

    Saito Club Member #52

  22. #47

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    RE: bad engines


    ORIGINAL: DISCUS54

    I have had an occasional glow "lemon", but to say that a particular manufacturer is bad or good? There are some better than others...and that is subjective to the point of what one finds to best fill their needs(economy, longevity, performance, ect.). Sure hard to beat O.S. Engines if you are new to the hobby or don't run your engines much. Likewise, once you have gained a little experience and seek optimal performance there is every reason to seek out a YS engine among others. Perhaps economy is more important than performance...nothing wrong with Fox, but you will be spending a lot more time on the break in. Knowledge is key, otherwise you will have a frustrating experience. Be sure to read the directions...yes read ALL of the directions. If the manufacturer omitted critical information (like nitro content, correct plug) a site search here on RCU might yield some good info...but you have to read into the forums a bit. Going to the field and asking for help may work if you ask the right person. Many of the engines mentioned as Bad are only as Bad as the nummy working on it.

    You absolutely hit this one on the head. In all my years of flying, I've seen all kinds of folks have issues tuning engines. Usually it's the nut turning the needle valve, not the engine itself. As I stated before, I have two old Royal .40's that were given to me because they were "junk". I took them home, cleaned them up, and have put hundreds of hours on both of them. I find they are just as powerful, and just as reliable as an O.S.

    People these days want quick gratification. They don't want to take the time to learn anything. If it doesn't run out of the box, then it's junk. Just because an engine takes a little work to break in and tune, doesn't mean it's junk. It just requires a little more knowledge and patience.

  23. #48
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    RE: bad engines

    I refer to many modern folks as, "button pushin cowboys" if they can't accomplish it by pushing a button they're simply not interested.
    Farmall 240 the final issue of the Farmall C, Super C, 200, 230 series.
    122 Cu. In. 22 hp. A small tractor that would do big work due to its 10x36 inch rear tires.

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  24. #49
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    RE: bad engines


    ORIGINAL: rcguy59

    No ''bad grapes'' here. I just never realized how bad the Cox engines were until I got my mitts on some Norvels. Way back when, the Cox's were all we had. That DIDN'T make them good.
    Which Coxes do you think are no good? Or is this a general opinion.

    The Dragonfly never impressed me, nice idea but the tank/clunk system was a source of headaches. I flew mine a few times until I yanked off the plastic tank and clunk and replaced it with a spare 8cc regular tank, turning it into a Black Widow I guess.

    The one Queen Bee .074 I messed with some years ago was a letdown. Not one of the stellar offerings.

    But the mainstream stuff - Babe Bee, Pee Wee .020, TD .049, TD .010, Medallion .09, Golden Bee, Black Widow, hmm what else.. I've had a few of each over the years and still do, and never had any complaints about these except for problems that could usually be traced back to me.

    I also think more bad advice has been handed out regards handling Cox engines than any other brand, and it still goes on.

    TD's are peppy, but I never knew how much power an .049 could really put out until I first ran a VA, then later a Profi combat engine. Holy schlamoley.. what a difference. Difference in price tag too..


    83scamp - Regards the nut behind the needle valve - I don't disagree one bit, I've run into dozens of situations like that where the poor engine couldn't really be blamed for anything. But I maintain there have been and still are some lemons on the market - even if the only problem is a reasonably well designed and built engine that suffers from inconsistent quality control, which IMHO is as serious a problem as an inherent design defect, and there is no excuse for it.

    One thing I think I know for sure - you sure have to be able to read between the lines when soliciting opinions on engines.



    I try to be pessimistic, but why bother?

  25. #50
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    RE: bad engines


    ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

    I refer to many modern folks as, "button pushin cowboys" if they can't accomplish it by pushing a button they're simply not interested.
    Instant gratification....goes along with so many other current trends in just about every aspect of current society. My political statement for the day.....

    Last generation's modelerswere happy to get our paws onto any engine. We figured out how to make it work or simply didn't play because we couldn't. This generation's "button pushers" has so many options available they simply go to the next one.... Thinking ability has taken sabbatical it seems.
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)


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