MJD

My Feedback: (1)

You're far more diligent than I am, and probably many others - and you ended up with bad bearings. Defect.. defect.. defect..

crustychief

That is what I think. The OP is very meticulous about his planes and equipment. The engine and airplane it is in are very new.

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

The correct procedure is to either buy a new engine every week, or add a gallon of after-run oil to your engine every day and change the bearings every month. If you do the second procedure, you would still need to replace the engine every six months.

Now, seriously ...
The guy who told you about adding adding a teaspoon of after-run oil after every session is severely mis-informed. The only thing you could do wrong is to take his advise. That guy should not be working on engines. Take about blowing smoke!!!

I use fuel that contains synthetic oil (Cool Power 10%) and never had a problem. I shut the engine down, drain the fuel from the tank, pack up, and go home. I never ran the engine dry. Whatever fuel is in the engine, remains in the engine until the next time I fly. Which is between a week and a month, sometimes more. I aslo keep my planes inside the house, which is always air-conditioned. Never had a problem. The engine runs perfectly, and the bearings last several years. No signs of rust, or loss of power.

controlliner

In the end, most two stroke glow engines purge almost completely on shut down as long as the throttle is wide open. If there is any minute amount of methanol left, the hot engine will make that go away. Morgan fuels uses a very good rust inhibitor in their fuel mixes. I've trusted them for many years without ARO.
Letting an engine idle before shutdown will almost certainly lead to some amount of rust. It should be done WOT.

1QwkSport2.5r

The last time I ran an engine at high throttle when it ran out of fuel toasted the glow plug. The element looked like crumpled tin foil. Since then, I run the engine at a fast idle until it quits and hit it with the starter a few times until it quits firing. I then leave the piston at BDC so the crankcase can breathe and this seems to work well. I use low nitro and lots of castor and only had a minor rust issue when I went to a 50/50 castor/syn oil blend. Although up until this point, my engines have been used on airboats in wet environment.

downunder

Strange because that's the way all CL engines stop at the end of every flight.

1QwkSport2.5r

I know, I found it odd myself. The plug didn't have but 3 or 4 tanks on it to boot.

Sport_Pilot

I had more blown glow plugs when I was flying CL than with RC. On some of my setups the engine leaned out more than it should during the run, so if you did not set it rich enough it would lean out and possibly blow a plug. With RC I would idle down and land.

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

This thread is about bad bearings not blown plugs...............

fly24-7

Seems like there's vigerous agreement. The hobby services guy is spewing BS. Time to end this thread and start another where everyone can attack each other. We've reached the cranky part of winter... [:'(]

proptop

My Feedback: (8)

My 2 cents...I think the bearings that are being used in the "problem" engines are of an inferior quality material...

I flew a LOT back in the 70's and 80's and didn't even think about rusty bearings...never saw any...maybe part of it was the (better? ) material of the bearings, maybe part of it the fuel(s ) used...(lots of Castor )

Took a decade off, and when I got back into the hobby in the 90's, I started having problems with rusty bearings...??? Didn't know why...because I was doing the same things that I'd always done before.



Speaking of fuel(s )...
A while back there was talk of cheaper Nitro being used in our fuels that might have been slightly acidic, that could have been a contributing factor to rusty engine internals? I bought some Litmus paper from Tower (Perfect brand, just like in my old Chemistry set ) to see if my fuel might be of a lower PH than it's supposed to be. Thankfully the stuff I got, in quantity from S&W is neutral...[8D]

I don't want to get into the whole "oil debate" thing, but don't certain synthetic oils break down into components that can contribute to rusty engine internals?

tony0707

My bearing and piston sleeve wear issues went away when I started to use Morgan Omega fuel with castor oil
I do run out the engine after every day I fly
Only use after run to store engines or you have to run the stuff out of the engine the next day out at the field

buzzard bait

I have a couple questions about Pe's suggestion. What is "cleaning naptha"? Where would I get it and what would it be called?

Will a glow engine actually run on a 50:50 mix of cleaning naptha and ARO? I suppose you leave the glow plug battery connected.

This sounds like a good way to maintain the OS alpha four strokes that have no breather nipple. I know some people drill a hole and install one, but I'm not going to do that. Running the engine at the end of the day with Pe's mixture is something I would be willing to do.

Thanks,

Jim

proptop

My Feedback: (8)

It's been a while, (haven't been in that section of the store lately) but I recall seeing Naptha in the Paint dept. of Ace Hardware...and Lowes...

Fs one

i have been running cool power synthetic fuel for 11yrs have never had a problem with bearings in any of my O.Sengines from .46 up to 160FXs.i use marvel mystery oil after every engine run never had a rust problem! where the engine has not run properly.All engines will have a slight bit of rust on the inside take off backplate and check it.Castor in fuel will make no difference.Most problems are pilot error running engines to lean.Learn how to break in an engine properly and don't run the engine lean.Also make sure you have proper cooling of air going over the engine as well.When you use after run load the engine up make sure there is enough in the engine.

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

you are willing to fill your tank up with a different fuel and then run the engine out every day instead of taking a few minutes to install a nipple and not have to mess with it lol.

Fs one"i have been running cool power synthetic fuel for 11yrs have never had a problem with bearings in any of my O.Sengines from .46 up to 160FXs.i use marvel mystery oil after every engine run never had a rust problem! where the engine has not run properly.All engines will have a slight bit of rust on the inside take off backplate and check it.Castor in fuel will make no difference.Most problems are pilot error running engines to lean.Learn how to break in an engine properly and don't run the engine lean.Also make sure you have proper cooling of air going over the engine as well.When you use after run load the engine up make sure there is enough in the engine. "

That is such a pain in the *****. why do we have to go to such lengths to make sure our engines last? The BEARING MFG's are using substandard metals and we have to pay for it. how much is it a pain in the butt to fill the engine up with oil, keep the oil in the engine while transporting the plane home and then get to the field only to have to remove all the oil and then take for ever to start the engine.

Bottom line is OS and others still want to make a profit, the suppliers of the parts and metal to OS want to make a profit also. Someone is cutting corners. Now if it isnt the engine MFG's its the Fuel MFG's that are cutting corners to make a profit. If you notice fuel hasnt really gone up that much in the last 10-15 years. A good deal on 15% fuel 15 years ago was 10 dollars most of the time it was 12-13 dollars a gallon. it now only 15-17 a gallon at the LHS

earlwb

A easy source for Naptha is Coleman Camp Fuel for Lanterns or camping stoves. it is actually naptha based. Some folks use it in place of gasoline in their gasoline engines. it is a lower octane rated fuel though, but usually doesn't pose a problem in the engines.

I haven't tried running a engine off the stuff, but yeah if you keep the glow plug heated up it should work. There have been people getting a glow engine to fire up and run off of WD-40 or some other penetrating oil when they flip the propeller after oiling the engine up. I suspect the flammable gasses in the spray can probably cause the effect. But it is wise to be careful flipping the prop fast after oiling a engine like that.

It could be bad for the silicon fuel tubing so keep the stuff away from the fuel lines, etc.

I forgot to mention that they sell Naptha cleaning solvent at many hardware stores too. Even the big box home improvement stores have it.

buzzard bait

OK, thanks earlwb and proptop for answering my questions.

Jim

Sport_Pilot

Naptha is used for paint thinner and found in most paint stores and hardware stores. Not sure if it is cheaper than Coleman's, but it is a lot smellier.

Sport_Pilot

Actually castor protects the engine better. It is thicker and does not evaporate in the combustion chamber, most synthetics do. Also most synthetics will not thicken with age and will run off the surfaces in time leaving them bare to the elements. Castor will congeal and leave a thick coat to protect the metal.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Fizz, yes, I order it in the Red Aerosol 16 oz can, a can will last a year or more. If an engine already has congealed castor in it the CX will dissolve it.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Hugh, you probably remember the story about the MDS 1.48 I bought from a guy in Az. a few years ago. One of the selling brags was that the engine had never seen castor. When I received it the inside was as dry as a bone. The only visible lube was in the big rod bearing, all else was dry. The rear bearing was rusted and the ring was rusted to the cylinder.
Another story was a learning experience for me. I bought two new Irvines in 1990, a .40 and a .46, I broke them in on Fox 5% fuel with 20% castor. I flew the .46 a few times on a Sport 500 helicopter. I didn't like flying a helicopter so I sold it. I cleaned up the .46 and put it back in its box and put the plastic plug that came with it in the exhaust port and the red plastic cap on the carb. Big mistake, a couple of years later I decided to use both engines. Both rear bearings were flaky with rust, the cranks had some kind of black coating on them and did not rust. Lesson, at least to me, never seal up a stored engine.

Sport_Pilot

Sealing with thecap's can help. But it can alsohurt if either there is still some small amount of methanol left, or you caped them on a humid day, then stored them in a cool space causing the humidity to condense out. I generally make sure all fuel has evaporated and then lubricate with 3 in 1 oil, or gun oil, then store in a zip lock bag with some thinoil or mineral spirits in the bag, the thin oil will vaporize and coat any uncoated metal.

do335a

I've just read more blow by than I see in the engines.

By products of combustion do indeed inflitrate the entire engine internals, whether two stroke or four stroke. No way around it. No piston/cylinder combination is perfecctly sealed.

Sport_Pilot

No, but the blow by is 90% unburned fuel.The amount of burned fuel that gets into the combustion chamber is neglible and not a factor.