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Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

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Old 03-14-2013, 08:28 AM
  #1
petergomes786
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Default Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

Dear All,

Based on the mailMr Darzeelon (Break-in in tapered bore engines)I've just interpreted my understanding & further elobrated on it for better understanding.

I have already made a Test bench for breaking my ASP S61A Two Stroke Glow Engine w/Remote HS Needle Valve .I dont have any Nitro ,Therefore Is it ok if I BREAKIN my engine with 70 - 30 or 75 -25 methonal to Castor & should i use a 12X 6 Wooden prop or Master 12x 6 or Apc 12x 6 or 11x6 or 11x7 ,Now order for a Hot plug forthis engine

BREAKIN PROCEDURE FOR ABC –AACGLOW ENGINES based on DarZeelonmail & little of my edition
1) Fuelforbreaking in a new engine –use Raw castor Oil only i.e 25% to 30% & 70 to 75% methanol (avoid sys oilfor breaking in (only for new breaking in engines) .
2) Prop : as per recommended mfg instruction for eg for an 0.61 glow engine 13x 5 prop is recommended for normal flying then drop by 1 inch or a little more 7 use a 11.x 5 prop. This will allow the engine RPM to reach a high Rpm & not load the engine by heating.(Modified by me as pre my engine size)
3) Breaking in on Test bench is better than breaking in on a model .
4) In addition, to heat treat the piston (for size stability), the first 20 runs, or so, must be short;
5) A) starting from 10 seconds -2 TO 3 RUNS , The engine must be allowed to cool down completely between these runs.
B)15 second – 2 TO 3 RUNS The engine must be allowed to cool down completely between these runs.
C) 20 second – 2 TO 3 RUNS The engine must be allowed to cool down completely between these runs
D) 25 second – 2 TO 3 RUNS The engine must be allowed to cool down completely between these runs.
E) 30 second – 2 TO 3 RUNS The engine must be allowed to cool down completely between these runs.
F) 35 second – 2 TO 3 RUNS The engine must be allowed to cool down completely between these runs.
G) 40 second – 2 TO 3 RUNS The engine must be allowed to cool down completely between these runs.
H) 45 second – 2 TO 3 RUNS The engine must be allowed to cool down completely between these runs.
1) 50 second – 2 TO 3 RUNS The engine must be allowed to cool down completely between these runs.
J) 55 second – 2 TO 3 RUNS The engine must be allowed to cool down completely between these runs.
K) 60 second – 2 TO 3 RUNS The engine must be allowed to cool down completely between these runs.
Gradually getting longer to about 1 minute.

The engine must be allowed to cool down completely between these runs.

After that, allow the engine to run for 10-15 minutes, still in a somewhat rich two-stroke mode.

After that the engine should be leaned gradually for short periods and then richened back (still two-cycle) to cool.

After about 10 minute doing that, try to lean the engine carefully to maximum RPM. If it can hold this RPM without sagging, for 60 seconds straight, you have completed the break-in.
If it sags richen it immediately, to prevent damage, repeat the first part of this paragraph for 10 more minutes and then try again.

pls advise if all is ok,

regards
Peter
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:56 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

Just follow the directions in the owners manual.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:29 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

Dear Kmot,

I've read the ownwer manaul which is not really satisfying orrevealing the full information therefore was looking for alternate & correctbreakin procedure.

regards
Peter
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:58 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

I follow Dub Jett's rules. 1" less diameter than target prop to get engine up to temp, run at target rpm rich. After 15-30 minutes, set idle and go play. 500-1000rpm rich of peak for first runs in the model.

Pretty easy.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:06 PM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61


Quote:
ORIGINAL: petergomes786

Dear Kmot,

I've read the ownwer manaul which is not really satisfying or revealing the full information therefore was looking for alternate & correct breakin procedure.

regards
Peter
Peter, I believe the manufacturer of the engine has a pretty fair understanding of how to break-in their own product. Dar offers an alternate method. And many of us use our own preferred way of doing things as well. That's part of the fun of the hobby.

"Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill" as the expression goes.

http://www.hobbypeople.net/media/upl...structions.pdf
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:58 PM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Kmot


Quote:
ORIGINAL: petergomes786

Dear Kmot,

I've read the ownwer manaul which is not really satisfying or revealing the full information therefore was looking for alternate & correct breakin procedure.

regards
Peter
Peter, I believe the manufacturer of the engine has a pretty fair understanding of how to break-in their own product. Dar offers an alternate method. And many of us use our own preferred way of doing things as well. That's part of the fun of the hobby.

''Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill'' as the expression goes.

http://www.hobbypeople.net/media/upl...structions.pdf
Most of your break-in instructions in the owners manual wasn't written by the designers rather some bean counting hunyuk. I've seen some doozies. Unless you are talking about an OS. They're so loose they don't really need a break-in.

Some ways are 'more' right than others... DarZeelon is one that goes a little overboard, but IMO has the right ideas.

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Old 03-14-2013, 05:26 PM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

Dear Kmot,

The link is not of ASP 61 but of Magnum,The intruction manual of ASP 61 is just 1 page both side.The mgf state to breaking within 12 x 6 where as MAGGUM states breaking with 11 x 7

I dont agree with you thatIm makinbg " " as u state "''Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill'' for I take aeromodelling very seriously & Im looking for correct answer& I dont mean any harms

Thanks for your advise& link.

regards
Peter






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Old 03-14-2013, 05:38 PM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

A 75/25 all castor fuel is fine for running in, it must be because that's exactly what I use . However I think you're making your running in process a bit more complicated than is really necessary. Make sure the mixture is going to be well into the rich side before the first start by opening the main needle about an extra turn past whatever the manufacturer recommends for normal running and don't worry if the engine is then rich enough to 4 stroke. That won't cause any damage at all. For the first runs I set the mixture so that the engine is breaking between 4 and 2 stroking (which is generally about 2000 below absolute peak) and give it about 20 minutes at that setting before leaning just into a clean 2 stroke for about another 10 minutes or so. I run it for about 5 minutes each time but don't bother about a full cool down between runs because there's really nothing in an ABC type engine that needs heat cycling.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:23 PM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

ASP and Magnum are the same manufacturer. Magnum having slightly better support maybe.  .I don't run them too long for break in, like 2 minutes, cool down a couple times, and if they sound good and don't sound hot, then just fly them.  Always a bit rich.  ABC motors.  They should be run at the same conditions that they will be flown. Not overpropped though.  Steel and ringed motors benefit from a more prolonged breakin.  IMHO.  Other opinions are available.  Downunder's opinion seems pretty good to me.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:47 PM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

The only reason to stop after a short run is to prevent overheating, there is no way to heat treat modern metals at even very hot engine temperatures.  The exception may be the old iron pistons, but I don't consider that modern.  For ABC ABN I just run a tank extra rich at various throttle settings, unless the instructions say other wise.  My engines last a long time. 
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:55 PM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

Yes point 4 and 5 looks wrong. There is no purpose in cooling the engine, in fact on a tight ABC engine you don't want to start it from completely cold. Instead one would pre-heat the cylinder-head to relieve some of the pinch at TDC.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:11 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Mr Cox

Yes point 4 and 5 looks wrong. There is no purpose in cooling the engine, in fact on a tight ABC engine you don't want to start it from completely cold. Instead one would pre-heat the cylinder-head to relieve some of the pinch at TDC.

Yes, at least on some of the high performance engines with a lot of taper you need to preheat, at least if it is cool outside. But most sport engines do not have enough taper to worry about this.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:34 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

If you preheat the cyl. on a tight one it will take the squeak away on a real fresh tight one. I had a Norvel that would unscrew the prop it was so tight. I made sure it was lubricated with fuel and run the starter backwards for ten seconds. That made it loosen up enough to run. After a short run off the prime it felt fine. An ABC piston / cyl. won't wear in very fast if it is warm. There are other parts need a breakin too. crankpin fits etc. can sieze and snap off etc. if too lean.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:53 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

Hi!
?????Why go to that lenght when it's not necessary...? It' not rocket science !

All you have to do is run it with the correct prop 11x7,11x7,5, 12x6 , 13x4 ...not a small 11x5!
Use the right fuel (5-15% nitro containing 18-20% oil)...and most important run it a little rich the first couple of tanks,but not slobbering rich!
It's important that the engine gets warm so do not hessitate to screew in the high speed needle enough.
And ...Remember when running in...all speed adjustments should be done with high speed needle and the throttle fully open! Not with with the throttle drum!

Then after just a couple of tanks on the ground, fly it! But remember to set it a little rich!
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:20 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

Dear All,

Thanks for the wonderfull advise ,I'm really surprised to see old folks still there from 2001,Let me share with you that its this sitethat taught me to fly model glow model way in 2003 & Im really very happyto be back ,Now Imwaiting for my prop /glow plug & some other accessories,Hope fully will break in the engine next week.some how my earlir login got locked therefore had to create a new login-

will keep you posted.

Tommorrow i'm likey to fly my low wing scanner with a 0.49 MVVS ENGINE (still very powerfull after several years -This engine was breakin by Darzeelon) -He 's got very good knownledge about engines .

Will keep you posted

Thanks again
Peter
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:30 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

Have you shown Darzeelon your breakin-list?
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:51 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Mr Cox

Have you shown Darzeelon your breakin-list?
Oh PLEASE!! No No No
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:33 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

Peter, you are a victim of mis-information at its best, or worst, which ever way you choose to look at it.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:09 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

I used to run a minute or two and shut down to cool, but now I just run a tank out, shut down for a few minutes while refueling and fire it back up.

The real idea is run it fast and rich at target rpm to break in the conrod. There really isn't much wear on the piston or liner.

Dar always was a little over the top.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:20 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61


Quote:
ORIGINAL: aspeed

If you preheat the cyl. on a tight one it will take the squeak away on a real fresh tight one. I had a Norvel that would unscrew the prop it was so tight. I made sure it was lubricated with fuel and run the starter backwards for ten seconds. That made it loosen up enough to run. After a short run off the prime it felt fine. An ABC piston / cyl. won't wear in very fast if it is warm. There are other parts need a breakin too. crankpin fits etc. can sieze and snap off etc. if too lean.

The point of preheating the engine is to prevent breaking or bending the connecting rod. Running it backward won't do much for that.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:09 PM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

 Preheating would have stopped the sticking, but when it is warm, it will not wear because the cyl. is bigger.  That is fine, but it would take longer to break in.   ABC is a little different as it breaks in if it is too cool like when running very rich, and it can wear too much even though it is lubed well.  The old motors I would just lap if they were that tight, but I was not sure if this one was ABC or that coating that Norvel uses.  It wasn't super tight, just if turned over slowly, it would stick.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:19 PM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

Quote:
Preheating would have stopped the sticking, but when it is warm, it will not wear because the cyl. is bigger.
Preheatingtemperatures areno where near the operating temps. This only for engines that have too much pinch to start, and have so much they could break the rod while starting. NOT for the average sport engine.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:30 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61



Is Darzeelon there in this forum,tried to contact him through FACE BOOK but no luck.

Ok .let me tell you good new with my Scanner & 0.49 mvvs ,Yesterday I flew her for the first time (as its a new model but old engine ,For a couple of minutes I was struggling tokeep the model noseup & its was strongly moving towardsleft .,got it up to a good Altitude & then trimmed her-gave up elevator & right trim .She flewvery well & could not land her well as she was floating for more than 30 to 40 ft-Took her up ,trimmed the throttle & bought her in for landing.

Im happy that Im not totally off touch.

Now Im wasfor the prop /glow plugto breakin my ASP 61 ,Hopefully next week I should do the breaking.

So guys thanks for the advise& ifinally Iwill follow you'll instruction -just run it rich but 2 stroking.

Any Idea what shouldbe the TEMPERATURE at full throttle -2 stroking rich ? & at peak what woulds it be ?

I've received 2 lead gasket whichis to be put between Exhuast & muffler,Is that ok ? or do Ineed to make another gasket or any advise.AsIreadin some thread that some times there is leak between exhaust & muffler with this gasket.

regards
Peter


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Old 03-17-2013, 07:37 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

Quote:
ORIGINAL: petergomes786

Is Darzeelon there in this forum,tried to contact him through FACE BOOK but no luck.
I think he was banned on this Forum, but you can probably find him on RCGroups, don't think he's banned there yet...
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:46 AM
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Default RE: Breakin procedure for my new ASP 61

Thanks will contac him there
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