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  1. #101
    Sport_Pilot's Avatar
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    RE: New Fox engines?


    ORIGINAL: Prop_Washer2


    ORIGINAL: oneaew@msn.com

    circlip? trade it in on a os engine
    Oh the Chinese made OS Engines....I'll raincheck that suggestion....You do realize that O.S. has moved their manufacturing to China now...

    I fear this thread has gone circular!
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  2. #102

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    RE: New Fox engines?


    ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot


    ORIGINAL: Prop_Washer2


    ORIGINAL: oneaew@msn.com

    circlip? trade it in on a os engine
    Oh the Chinese made OS Engines....I'll raincheck that suggestion....You do realize that O.S. has moved their manufacturing to China now...

    I fear this thread has gone circular!


    This may sound strange, even though I have and like many Chinese made engines, I would like for OS Engines to remain made in Japan, even though I do not doubt China's ability to make fine engines Japanese quality levels. Oh well. The only constant in life is change.


    Ed Cregger
    \"Practice makes prefect\"

    Saito Club Member #52

  3. #103

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    RE: New Fox engines?

    i called os and the engines are being made there i told them i guess i wont be buying any more from them right now they are checking to see how good the engines will be and i see at hobby ki ng they are making some other engines that has been made here

  4. #104

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    RE: New Fox engines?

    ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

    IMO you have not been very accurate and facts are few.Â* Add on engines for bicycles have always been legal and Duke Fox did not invent the idea.Â* Saw one made in the 30's on Pickers.Â* Never made enough to hurt his company no matter if they sold or not.Â* He has probably made more parts and pieces for other two stroke gas engine companies than most other contract machine shop companies.

    Never said that Duke Fox invented it. If anything he was at the tail end of it. As to the financial statement it was direct from Fox when I talked to him on an occasion. He also lost money on other occasions the most notable being the Roselle and Fry acquisition which became the ill conceived Fox 36R/E with the gas tank muffler. He reported a 30K loss on that one.

    I've never been able to fathom the devotion a devout Foxaholic gives to the Fox 35. Crude beyond belief, Fox said he made it that way in 48 because he really had scarce funds to do it differently. If you remember it had almost no fins, 4 bolt head that leaked and warped and a 2 bolt back plate ,ditto. None of the Improvements in later years did anything to the power curve, the case re design give it the dreaded Fox burp on outside maneuvers and it still runs hotter than a blowtorch because of its thermally inefficient design. really cheap sintered bronze bearing which is really the reason that you needed 29% oil to keep the critter alive. And this is just one engine. And it is still an excellent idea to open every new Fox engine you get and clean them out. Like the early Chinese stuff I've removed enough swarf from them to probably cast a crankcase or 2 over the last 50 years.
    Frankly there is no reason to continue on with this discussion the man is gone and of course we are all entitled to our own opinion on everything. I'm done.

  5. #105

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    RE: New Fox engines?

    ORIGINAL: NM2K


    ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot


    ORIGINAL: Prop_Washer2


    ORIGINAL: oneaew@msn.com

    circlip? trade it in on a os engine
    Oh the Chinese made OS Engines....I'll raincheck that suggestion....You do realize that O.S. has moved their manufacturing to China now...

    I fear this thread has gone circular!


    This may sound strange, even though I have and like many Chinese made engines, I would like for OS Engines to remain made in Japan, even though I do not doubt China's ability to make fine engines Japanese quality levels. Oh well. The only constant in life is change.


    Ed Cregger

    It wasn't too long ago, that many considered Japan to be inferior junk metals only, to be had from there!....
    That changed after some work, then they were seen as the cremdlaa creme...
    I have always said that China, is the new Japan...of years ago....

    O.S. has been getting killed by the lower sales of Nitro engines...
    I wondered when they would go over to China, to make engines....
    It makes sense to me; reduce the price of the engines, turn higher profits, and sell MORE engines than before!...
    If you can\'\'\'\'t dazzle em with brilliance,baffle em with BS

  6. #106

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    RE: New Fox engines?

    One respondent noted that he had expressed his opinions and that those opinions were not open for discussion.

    I respectfully submit that the gentleman was wrong. In a free society AlLL opinions are subject to discussion.

    Perhaps the correspondent ment to say that his opinions were not subject to change?

    Jess

  7. #107
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    RE: New Fox engines?

    Actually, Fox ran the engines before they shipped, so any junk in them had already been eaten by the time you got a hold of it!


    Wonder if anyone would discuss why he was in jail? (Duke Fox)
    Let's just say, they will be satisfied with less. " Ming the Merciless


    BUSA Bro # 13

  8. #108

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    RE: New Fox engines?

    ORIGINAL: jessiej

    One respondent noted that he had expressed his opinions and that those opinions were not open for discussion.

    I respectfully submit that the gentleman was wrong. In a free society AlLL opinions are subject to discussion.

    Perhaps the correspondent ment to say that his opinions were not subject to change?

    Jess

    actually it meant that I wouldn't discuss them. Opinions can be discussed but rarely changed as age takes care of that. and if you have never seen flash in a Fox engine it means that you have never taken a new one apart. Loyalty to a brand might be commendable but is often misplaced. doubtful that fox still runs every engine. Most people have at least an idea of why Duke Fox had a very low profile for awhile.

    dennis

  9. #109
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    RE: New Fox engines?

    I have taken the back plate off of a 1980's brand new Fox .35 Stunt and there was lapping compound around the crank throw. I rinsed it out thoroughly. Imagine what would happen if I had run it like that. That is the only time ever , that I found a foreign particle or substance in a Fox engine, and I have all different sized Foxes. They range from the .099 Rocket to the .60 Eagle version 1. I believe the pistons and liners are done on a CNC lathe now. It probably accounts for the "shorter" break in times.
    More companies need to do their engine machining in a TCC environment. They should keep their metal stock in the same TCC environment.
    \"Keep it clean and not too lean\" Duke Fox

  10. #110
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    RE: New Fox engines?

    I have pulled the backplate off quite a few new Fox engines over the years and I haven't found any swarf inside yet. It isn't to say it doesn't happen though, but I haven't encountered any swarf inside one of the engines yet. I had bought some new engines more recently in the past few years and they were clean on the inside and appeared to haver been test run at the factory for a few minutes. They don't run the engines very long of course so you will very likely not see any carbopn buildup on them at all. But it is possible that maybe they don't test run all of the engines anymore, I don't know, I haven't been back to visit the Fox Factory recently. Now then Fox does use Castor oIl in their 0% nitro test fuel, so if a new engine sits for a long time, it will get stuck and need to be unstuck of course. But the engine will be perfectly preserved though. I have taken new in the box 20 to 30 year old engines, unstuck them, oiled them up, and ran and flew them just fine no problem.

    I think people tend to get pretty fixed in their ways, if they don't like something, then they very likely never will. But for any brand model engine out there one will find people that don't like it.
    Club Saito #722, Sig Kadet Brotherhood #80, GlowHead Brotherhood #14,
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  11. #111

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    RE: New Fox engines?


    ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace


    ORIGINAL: iskandar taib

    Mark VIII Combat Special?

    Problem is - it'd be a few years too late.

    Iskandar
    The problem here is that most combat is being flown with .15's. Even the 80mph GX stuff. Otherwise hot .25's and .32's are being used. The days of the .36 combat special seem to be over.

    Also as much as I hate to say it, I think Combat is withering on the vine period.
    Yup, exactly. Even the big contests aren't drawing as many people as they used to. F2D is the biggest "serious" event being flown, while there are groups who fly Speed Limit. .36 Fast is about dead, no new engines since Henry retired. No market for a new one, either. Hope they can keep the Grabber going a few more years, though.

    Iskandar

  12. #112

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    RE: New Fox engines?


    ORIGINAL: controlliner

    I have taken the back plate off of a 1980's brand new Fox .35 Stunt and there was lapping compound around the crank throw. I rinsed it out thoroughly. Imagine what would happen if I had run it like that. That is the only time ever , that I found a foreign particle or substance in a Fox engine, and I have all different sized Foxes. They range from the .099 Rocket to the .60 Eagle version 1. I believe the pistons and liners are done on a CNC lathe now. It probably accounts for the ''shorter'' break in times.
    More companies need to do their engine machining in a TCC environment. They should keep their metal stock in the same TCC environment.
    To be honest, the Mark IV Combat Special never needed a long break-in, despite being an iron piston engine. Just a couple of bladders moderately rich on the ground, every now and then pinching the tubing to let it rev briefly, and then into the air. A few runs later and it would be good for flying matches. It'd blow plugs like crazy the first few runs when tight, and then you'd maybe get three runs per plug (especially running Missile Mist, like I did). Definitely not Fox Stunt like, more like ABC engines. I suspect the difference was that the liner was tapered. It would also wear out in about a season, at which time you'd send it away for chroming, and then it'd be good for several seasons before chroming again.

    The Mark VI and VII were ABC, and behaved like ABC engines. Weren't at least some of the RC offerings ABC also?

    Iskandar

  13. #113
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    RE: New Fox engines?

    Fox did made a few ABC engines. The .40 Quickie,  .46 ABC, and he did a .60 ABC as well, if I remember correctly. I think he did a ABC combat .36 engine too. But if I remember right,  some people were having problems with the liner's peeling on them.  But Fox seemed to have a lot of trouble getting the ABC cylinder sleeve and piston fit just right. So he never really continued the ABC versions, more than likely due to the environmental loaws in place making it too expensive. He had tried some odd cylinder sleeve combinations too, such as a stepped sleeve where there was a noticeable step on the inside. But the standard tight fitting tapered sleeve was hard for him to do for some unknown reason. But nowadays makiing a ABC cylinder and sleeve in the USA is prohibitively expensive because of the environmental loaws and regulations in place. Actually getting anything chromed inside the USA is goint to be very expensive. Thus except for maybe some expensive government contract jobs no one does it anymore in the USA. If I remember some cost quotes had it running over $100 per engine to make a chromed sleeve ABC setup inside the USA.

    Now then Fox did strike up some deals with some Russians to make ceramic sleeves for the Fox .35 stunt engine. So that might be something they could expand on with the other engines too.  I think that ceramic sleeve setup might even be better than the ABC setup too.  NV Engines uses something like that on their engines and it works good. So I could see some more Fox engines with ceramic sleeves in them.
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  14. #114

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    RE: New Fox engines?

    iam with you on the fox engines>> where do people fly them i belong to 2 clubs one club has 100 members the other 350 no one has a any there most are os engines 2 stroke and 4 stroke iam in california plus we have a few other brands>> no one says any thing bad about there engines

  15. #115

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    RE: New Fox engines?

    I fly the only Fox engines at my field. Most of our members are newcomers to the hobby (within the last 15 years). Fox just doesn't advertise like the major brands. Tower and the LHS don't carry Fox (except the control line 35). So everyone at our club flies either OS or Satio and no one in our club knows much about Fox other than me. Same goes for Enya. Few in our club know of Enya. Advertising works!

    Another problem is that the stock Fox mufflers are not baffled and our field has a sound limit. So anyone at our field who got a Fox would have to work out something for the muffler. That is enough of a hassle to discourage some members from bothering with Fox.
    Glow Head #6, UltraSport #70

  16. #116

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    RE: New Fox engines?

    yep everyone likes the easy way me to lol

  17. #117
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    RE: New Fox engines?

    Yeah, Fox pretty much got out marketed by the big importers. I don't think they advertise much in the magazines anymore. But they seem to always sell out of their engines that they make every year. So the engines are going somewhere though.  I am also about the only one flying Fox engines at our flying field too. Now then I am about the only one still flying Enya engines too. Very few people know about them as well. Enya seems to have been out marketed too.  There is probably a somewhat scandalous business story behind why Enya,  Fox and for that matter MECOA too, as to what happened.   We can still use the stock Fox mufflers at our flying field though.
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  18. #118
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    RE: New Fox engines?

    I have looked and looked on their site and can't find any information on trade in discounts.

    What am I missing?

    Ken
    \"As for Me and My House, We Will Serve the Lord\"
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  19. #119

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  20. #120
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    RE: New Fox engines?


    Great
    Thanks a bunchJPMacG

    Ken

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  21. #121

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    RE: New Fox engines?

    How many America model engine manufacturers have come and gone over the years? Anderson, Bunch, Cameron, McCoy, Dooling, Super Cyclone, Forster, and Johnson come to mind. There must be a number of others.

    Jess

  22. #122

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    RE: New Fox engines?

    mccoy>> k&b>>rossie>> webra>> forster>> johnson>> ohlsson>> veco>> torpedo>>

  23. #123
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    RE: New Fox engines?


    ORIGINAL: oneaew@msn.com

    mccoy>> k&b>>rossie>> webra>> forster>> johnson>> ohlsson>> veco>> torpedo>>
    Um... Rossi and Webra are/were European engines.
    GlowHead Brotherhood #3
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  24. #124
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    RE: New Fox engines?

    There are too many to type in here, something like more than 200 different engine brands that were made over the years in the USA.

    At present we have Fox, MECOA (K&B, RJL-Kraft, etc), and Jett still making glow engines. Then there are Fox, DA, and SYSSA making gas engines too. I am not sure if Quadras are considered USA made or not anymore. Although Cox Engines makes 1/2a engines they are now in Canada.

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  25. #125

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    RE: New Fox engines?

    ORIGINAL: earlwb

    Fox did made a few ABC engines. The .40 Quickie, Â*.46 ABC, and he did a .60 ABC as well, if I remember correctly.Â*I think he did aÂ*ABC combat .36 engine too. But if I remember right, Â*some people were having problems with the liner's peeling on them. Â*But Fox seemed to have a lot of trouble getting the ABC cylinder sleeve and piston fit just right. So he never really continued the ABC versions, more than likely due to the environmental loaws in place making it too expensive. He had tried some odd cylinder sleeve combinations too, such as a stepped sleeve where there was a noticeable step on the inside. But the standard tight fitting tapered sleeve was hard for him to do for some unknownÂ*reason. But nowadays makiing a ABC cylinder and sleeve in the USA is prohibitively expensive because of the environmental loaws and regulations in place. Actually getting anything chromed inside the USA is goint to be very expensive. Thus except for maybe some expensive government contract jobs no one does it anymore in the USA. If I remember some cost quotes had it running over $100 per engine to make a chromed sleeve ABC setup inside the USA.

    Now then Fox did strike up some deals with some Russians to make ceramic sleeves for the Fox .35 stunt engine. So that might be something they could expand on with the other engines too.Â* I think that ceramic sleeve setup might even be better than the ABC setup too.Â* NV Engines uses something like that on their engines and it works good. So I could see some more Fox engines with ceramic sleeves in them.
    The ABC Combat Specials were the Marks VI and VII. Never did hear anything about peeling chrome. And chrome they definitely were (not ABN). These were made in the mid to late 90s.

    Chroming CAN be done in the US, I know there were several people doing chroming work in their garages (that's where we sent Mark IVs and other engines off to to be rejuvenated. Yeah, they chromed steel liners. I know one person still doing this, he charges about $50 and up, depending on what needs to be done. Usually, chrome the liner, then hone until the piston fits. And then it needs a few runs for break-in. But he can also chrome the crank (for plain bearing engines) and crankpin, too, if you want that done.

    Large scale manufacturing of chromed parts? Surely all those folks up in Detroit making car bumpers knew something or two - there definitely were ABC engines made in the US in the past, K&B made some IIRC. ABC engines were invented in the US. What you say about regulations is probably true today, but it wasn't 20 years ago.

    As far as weird combinations - the first Mark VI engines had these weird aluminum pistons with a steel band around the crown. (Or it might've been the other way around - can't remember.) The problem was, over the next few months, every one of these engines had the band separate from the piston. No worries, he just sent everyone who bought one a new ABC piston/liner set.

    Never seen these ceramic sleeves. As I recall, someone in Australia started selling them first, Fox started selling them afterwards, probably from same source. Are they real ceramic, or metal coated with ceramic, like Norvel parts?

    Iskandar


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