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  1. #126
    PatrickCurry's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China


    ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

    People can't afford things they used to, the dollar is nearly worthless, and a lot of people are flat out lazy.
    I think that's irrelevant, though. It's not like OS dropped their prices but people will still buy them. What ticks me off is when companies like Tower buy a company like Thunder Tiger and then raise the prices of all the engines to "bring them in line". Thunder Tiger used to be a great "value" but now they're just another engine and you'll buy them or you won't. They're still good engines, but there's not enough price difference any more to make them a great "value". I guess model engines are becoming like cars..... let someone else knock the new off them and eat all the depreciation and then a savvy buyer can pick them up online or at a swap meet at a good deal. Fortunately for me, or unfortunately depending on how you look at it, I have enough engines in my cabinet to power probably my next 30 or 40 builds and I'll worry about where OS engines are built somewhere in the very far distant future. I *would* like to try one of the new Evolution gas engines and one of the smaller NGH engines just for something to tinker with though.


  2. #127
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China


    ORIGINAL: JPMacG

    But there is not necessarily anything wrong with engines made in areas of cheap labor. I have had nothing but good results from my Thunder Tiger engines. Magnum.... well... that's another story.

    TT is made in Taiwan, and the labor there is not near as cheap as China. Some quality issues with assembly of TT engines (mostly loose screws), but otherwise very well made.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  3. #128

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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    Just a quick observation... I just bought a new OS LA .25. It is still made in Japan.

  4. #129
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China


    ORIGINAL: WoodCutter

    Just a quick observation... I just bought a new OS LA .25. It is still made in Japan.
    All I've seen of the OS line that's made in China is the AX II's (.46 & .55). I think they're test driving China production before they move all of their stuff to China. Probably will go the same way SuperTigre went.

    GlowHead Brotherhood #3
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  5. #130
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    I can agree, I do not think OS moved it all there so far. Just the 46 and 55 AX II engines so far. They are testing it out. I am sure they are working out the bugs and kinks of having a offshore manufacturer make those two engines before they decide to add more to the list.

    Supertigre appeared to almost overnight move the entire factory to China. I am sure it took a while but one day they were Made inItaly and the next time I noticed they were made in China. They were probably the ones who jumped in with both feet on that endeavor.

    Before then years ago. The Vespa Motor Scooter factory was sold to a company in India and they moved the entire factory to India. Where they meticulously copied and manufactured the scooters for many years still. The parts are interchangeable with the originals in that case as well. I remember a lot of guys replacing Vespa parts with Indian made parts on them. Anyway the quality was equal to the quality of the originals.




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  6. #131

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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    sourcing manufacturing to a lower cost country is only good business sense.  The hard part, and the one area where many companies fail is ensuring the same quality standards with reduced overheads.  If a company can produce a product cheaper without sacrificing quality, then us as consumers are the winners. 



  7. #132

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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    If their just testing the waters I think that's a big mistake . I would imagine the 46 and 55 would be the 2 most popular engines in their line up . If this goes bad for them I would hate to be the dude who thought this one up . I guess there no dummies though having been around this long and if supertigre can do it successfully I have no doubt OS can too . I would think there going to China with everything and these 2 engines are just the 1st that they have set up . No point having all there stuff there if they can only do so much with the resources they have . Cheers the pope

  8. #133
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    ORIGINAL: Altered1

    sourcing manufacturing to a lower cost country is only good business sense.* The hard part, and the one area where many companies fail is ensuring the same quality standards with reduced overheads.* If a company can produce a product cheaper without sacrificing quality, then us as consumers are the winners.*


    Very well said, unfortunately it didn't work out so well with Super Tigre in my opinion. They lost their "precision" and consistancy, it's starting to be hit and miss to get a good one. And from what I hear many parts are next to impossible to get anymore. I've heard the argument that when they moved from Italy to China, they used the same type of equipment to make the new ST's, but that doesn't take into account many other factors - metals used, small "improvement" changes and the care of making/assembly which I'm sure is done as fast as possible.

    Also the consumers are only winners if the distributor sells them cheaper, most times they just pocket the difference.

    With the electric revolution slowly taking over, the number of sold new glow engines has steadily gone downhill, which means less money for the manufacturer and distributor. I wish OS well, for the last 50 years or so they have been consistantly high quality, but I don't have a good feeling about the move to China. Time will tell. Below are two of my planes using OS 25 SF and 28 FSR's, never rebuilt, still run perfect and strong after 20+ years.
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    Ron - AMA 1025 - Largo, FL

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  9. #134

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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China


    ORIGINAL: ronwc

    ORIGINAL: Altered1

    sourcing manufacturing to a lower cost country is only good business sense. The hard part, and the one area where many companies fail is ensuring the same quality standards with reduced overheads. If a company can produce a product cheaper without sacrificing quality, then us as consumers are the winners.


    Very well said, unfortunately it didn't work out so well with Super Tigre in my opinion. They lost their "precision" and consistancy, it's starting to be hit and miss to get a good one. And from what I hear many parts are next to impossible to get anymore. I've heard the argument that when they moved from Italy to China, they used the same type of equipment to make the new ST's, but that doesn't take into account many other factors - metals used, small "improvement" changes and the care of making/assembly which I'm sure is done as fast as possible.

    Also the consumers are only winners if the distributor sells them cheaper, most times they just pocket the difference.

    With the electric revolution slowly taking over, the number of sold new glow engines has steadily gone downhill, which means less money for the manufacturer and distributor. I wish OS well, for the last 50 years or so they have been consistantly high quality, but I don't have a good feeling about the move to China. Time will tell. Below are two of my planes using OS 25 SF and 28 FSR's, never rebuilt, still run perfect and strong after 20+ years.
    I dont know how old my Enya 60X is ( I got her second hand), and she had a set of bearings before I redid them after sitting for 12 years in my shed........ a quality engine for sure.


    changing to overseas manufacture is a business decision a company makes in an effort to remain competitive and maintain turnover. If you sacrifice what you've built, then you acknowledge the associated risk. it will come down to statistics in the bottom line if the company is able to continue to deliver. Often, the cost of quality is underestimated. Yes a product is cheaper to produce, but you spend more on quality compliance, or pay the price if quality slips.

    If a company cannot step up and produce a product cheaper and better than before, then the competition will.

    You just need to take ownership of the quality at the cheaper source. Do things right, train the people, test, measure and document...... that will ensure the quality remains... but it will not be as cheap as you think.



  10. #135
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    ORIGINAL: ronwc
    Also the consumers are only winners if the distributor sells them cheaper, most times they just pocket the difference.
    100% spot on, my friend! They're not moving to China to reduce the cost of their engines to consumers.

  11. #136

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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China


    ORIGINAL: PatrickCurry

    ORIGINAL: ronwc
    Also the consumers are only winners if the distributor sells them cheaper, most times they just pocket the difference.
    100% spot on, my friend! They're not moving to China to reduce the cost of their engines to consumers.
    No, probably not. But they are keeping the price stable or low, while still being able to pay for the higher costs of overheads and the increased margin demands at each point of the distribution chain.


    Would you accept the price of the hobby keeping up with the price of electricity? or gas? or water? or the payrise you expect every year ?


  12. #137

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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    I think from what Ive read supertigre shipped all of their machinery over not just using similar stuff . Ive only dealt with their Chinese ones having 5 of my own and seen numerous others and there all good engines . A lot of people just say they've gone to china there engines are now crap and there the ones who don't even own one . Just my opinion from the pontiff ( Cleo's man of the year )

  13. #138
    PatrickCurry's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China


    ORIGINAL: Altered1
    No, probably not. But they are keeping the price stable or low, while still being able to pay for the higher costs of overheads and the increased margin demands at each point of the distribution chain.
    Would you accept the price of the hobby keeping up with the price of electricity? or gas? or water? or the payrise you expect every year ?
    Don't give me that. I could care less if OS moves to China as I have no problem running a Chinese engine. If they produce the same engine at the same price, then they are "keeping the price stable". If they start producing crap at the same price, they have in effect raised the price. Moving to China has nothing to do with "keeping up with the price of electricity". If they want to raise the price of their engines, go ahead, they can knock themselves out. But I'm a "don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining" kinda guy. I said what I said because I'm cynical because of the corporate structure in this "global economy" we're forced to endure now and the bs lies that entails. Not because I have some ax to grind with OS. I like OS engines just fine and have a bunch. I also fly a bunch of much cheaper Chinese engines and like them just fine. I agree with the people who have pointed out that you can get a good product out of China if you specifty and pay for the proper quality control. I really could care less where OS builds their engines.

  14. #139

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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China


    Just wait until all the chinese want mobile phones, 50 inch TV's, cars and a house to live in.  Their wage demands will reach a point where it will be cheaper to produce products in Africa.

  15. #140

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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    ORIGINAL: Altered1


    Just wait until all the chinese want mobile phones, 50 inch TV's, cars and a house to live in.* Their wage demands will reach a point where it will be cheaper to produce products in Africa.
    It's already happening to a surprising degree...

    Iskandar

  16. #141
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    ronwc, on that 3 engine stick, do they have large fin heli heads on them, or?

  17. #142
    ronwc's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

    ronwc, on that 3 engine stick, do they have large fin heli heads on them, or?
    Yes, they are OS 28 heli engines, very strong running, bought them cheap at swap meets. The 28 and 32 FSR's were very popular heli engines back in the day. The main difference in them from the airplane is the larger cooling head, extended throttle arm and sometimes missing the drive washer. The three of them on a 60 size stick is way overpowered, unlimited verticle, but fun to fly and something different. I always tell guys, if you think two engines are hard to keep running, try three.
    Ron - AMA 1025 - Largo, FL

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  18. #143
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    Thanks for the info. Some of the 32's were peeling their liners at one time I think. GREAT that yours are finely tuned and long lasting. Tell me, ..... what does it sound like doing a low fly by at full throttle with all the of those babies screaming? ....

  19. #144
    ronwc's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China


    ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

    Thanks for the info. Some of the 32's were peeling their liners at one time I think. GREAT that yours are finely tuned and long lasting. Tell me, ..... what does it sound like doing a low fly by at full throttle with all the of those babies screaming? ....
    I haven't tached them but I would estimate they are all turning about 16k on the 9x6 props. They sound great on a high speed fly by. I like to come by and go into a very big loop, doesn't slow down at all. I have it set up so that at idle I can flip a switch and shut down the two outer engines, makes it easier on landings. Also shown below is another plane I fly, a Twin Cub.



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    Ron - AMA 1025 - Largo, FL

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  20. #145
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    That twin Cub is awesome also. Was there ever a full scale twin Cub?

  21. #146
    ronwc's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    Yes, there was a real plane, built back in the 40's i think - see http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/...r-TwinCub.html

    Mr. Wagner's second attempt produced an even uglier machine, called the Twin Cub. It consisted of a J-3 Cub and a PA-11 Cub Coupe fuselage mounted side-by-side using a small wing center section and central tail plane. The outer wing panels and tail plane were standard components. The resulting aircraft looked so odd that even Mr.Wagner called it "The Thing". Because of the close proximity of the fuselages, only the right hand one could be occupied by a pilot and passenger, the left hand fuselage serving only the purpose of engine mounting.

    No propeller synchronizing was envisaged, the props rotating in different planes instead, to prevent hitting each other. This was accomplished by a 'distance piece' on the left hand engine/prop combination. It is claimed that flight qualities were just great, even with one engine out. One wonders, however, with all that prop wash interference.

    Even though the purchase price was said to be about half of a regular twin engine aircraft, the Twin Cub remained a one-off and Mr. Wagner turned his attention to the Twin Tri-Pacer, where he bolted two engines to the nose of an otherwise standard Piper PA-22 Tri-Pacer.

    None of the Wagner conversions achieved commercial success and both the Twin Cub and Twin Tri-Pacer returned to standard configuration.

    BTW, I followed your link above - http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/ - wow, beautiful pics.
    Ron - AMA 1025 - Largo, FL

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    completely sure about the former. - Albert Einstein

  22. #147
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: O.S. Engines now made in China

    Thanks a bunch Ron - for ALL! Good to see you having so darn much fun too.


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