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Debris in Fuel Jug

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Old 07-11-2013, 03:21 PM
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Default Debris in Fuel Jug

Somehow, unwanted matter has gotten into my fuel jug, all of which appears to have settled at the bottom. I was thinking of siphoning the fuel into a clean jug while disposing of the last 1/2 inch of the fuel. Or should i filter the fuel? Would coffee filter be okay?

Please provide your ideas and suggestions.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:03 PM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

Yes either method would work. You could even put a inline filter onto the fuel line from the jug to filter out the debris and just use it like normal too.

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Old 07-11-2013, 05:44 PM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

I filtered an opened but sealed 1/2 full jug of Cool Power that was 14 years old through a coffee filter. It had some white sediment in it. The fuel ran fine in my Saito FA150 & FA180. The only difference between the filtered jug & a 14 year old jug of unopened Cool Power was a very slight improvement of idle on the unopened fuel.
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Old 07-12-2013, 03:17 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

Good comments mate.Ive read that you can freeze the fuel and then pour it into another container to get rid of water.I never run inline fuel filters on any saito and never have problems with carbys after pumping fuel in that has already been strained thru a coffee filter.You buy them for next to nothing at any supermarket.
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Old 07-12-2013, 03:29 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Good comments mate.Ive read that you can freeze the fuel and then pour it into another container to get rid of water.I never run inline fuel filters on any saito and never have problems with carbys after pumping fuel in that has already been strained thru a coffee filter.You buy them for next to nothing at any supermarket.
I'll have to admit that I was amazed that the 14 year old fuel was still good.

I loop my fuel filler line back to the jug vent thus sealing out atmospheric moisture. The fuel was stored indoors out of direct sunlight.

As far as freezing the water out? I kind of doubt that claim as alcohol is used to "de-ice" gasoline. It puts the water in suspension & acts as an anti-freeze" allowing it to run though the fuel system in cold winter temperatures..
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Old 07-12-2013, 05:50 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug


Quote:
ORIGINAL: earlwb

Yes either method would work. You could even put a inline filter onto the fuel line from the jug to filter out the debris and just use it like normal too.


A felt clunk filter on the bottom of the pickup line of the jug, like is used with gas fuel tanks for weedeaters, is cheap and effective.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:07 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug


Quote:
ORIGINAL: spaceworm


Quote:
ORIGINAL: earlwb

Yes either method would work. You could even put a inline filter onto the fuel line from the jug to filter out the debris and just use it like normal too.


A felt clunk filter on the bottom of the pickup line of the jug, like is used with gas fuel tanks for weedeaters, is cheap and effective.
.

If there is sediment in the jug as the OP stated, the best method is to filter contaminated fuel W/the coffee filter 1st, then utilize a filter from the jug as added insurance..

I like the inline filter because it is a little easier to access/clean in the field. Screw it apart, blow out the screen & continue flying.

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Old 07-12-2013, 06:50 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

just get an other clean gallon jug a plastic funnel and a 4 x4 gauze first aid pad in it, pour and you are down easier than a coffee filter martin
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:23 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Ive read that you can freeze the fuel and then pour it into another container to get rid of water.
It won't.

Iskandar

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Old 07-12-2013, 01:23 PM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

You can get the oil out of the methanol but you can't get the water out of the methanol.

I use windshield washer fluid jugs for storing fuel in, if one gets some crud in it, I use SrTelemasters idea with straining off the crud into another clean jug. I also use a filter clunk in my fill jug with two fine mesh screens. Works peachy.
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Old 07-12-2013, 05:12 PM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

In my case I don't believe the fuel was contaminated from outside sources except maybe air drawn in whiloe pumping fuel into tanks. After 14 years in a dark corner sediment somehow seperated from the solution. It was small white elongated flakes simlilar to what one might get from sawing through white plastic W/a hacksaw. It wasn't plastic though as it was dry & would crumble when rubbed between the fingers. There wasn't a lot of it, just enough to clog the inline filter in the fill line.

A coffee filter placed in a large funnel is a little slow, but I would trust it better than gauze to do a thorough job. Using a large coffee filter in a large funnel you can pour in 8-12oz @ a time & let it strain while you do other chores @ the bench. You can strain a gallon of fuel in less than 10 minutes using that method.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:13 PM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

Thank you for the replies, guys. It helped.

SrTelemaster150, the other day i pulled out a jug of fuel that must have been at least 10 years old. I thought it might be no good, but it fired up my OS 40 FSR after a few flips with a chicken stick. I will be flying with the same fuel in the morning!
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:35 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

SrTelemaster - I've used a couple different additives to control fuel foam (mainly in my RC cars) and I have had little white specks settle out over winter. I always store my fuels in tightly called jugs and I squeeze as much air out of them as I can if they will be sitting more than a month. I suspected the sediment was the defoaming additive(s). The aero fuels I make I do not use anything for defoaming and have not seen any sediment settle out. Just a thought.

Old fuel does not necessarily mean bad fuel. Moreover, an experiment was done running an engine on fuel with water added to it. The engine performed quite well even up to 10% water by volume added. Some lower compression engines probably won't run on water contaminated fuel as well as a higher compression engine will.
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Old 07-13-2013, 03:55 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug


Quote:
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

SrTelemaster - I've used a couple different additives to control fuel foam (mainly in my RC cars) and I have had little white specks settle out over winter. I always store my fuels in tightly called jugs and I squeeze as much air out of them as I can if they will be sitting more than a month. I suspected the sediment was the defoaming additive(s). The aero fuels I make I do not use anything for defoaming and have not seen any sediment settle out. Just a thought.

Old fuel does not necessarily mean bad fuel. Moreover, an experiment was done running an engine on fuel with water added to it. The engine performed quite well even up to 10% water by volume added. Some lower compression engines probably won't run on water contaminated fuel as well as a higher compression engine will.
Interesting note about the water not affecting performance significantly.

Suposedly, one of the factors that contributes to water methanol injection increasing power is the expansion of the water into steam during the heat of combustion.

As long as the water content absorbed into the methanol does not disrupt the function of the carburetor there shouldn't be a (significant) negative result.
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Old 07-13-2013, 04:20 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

I was surprised too. Too much water and the oil drops out of suspension. Even still, 10% is a lot of water.
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Old 07-13-2013, 05:06 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug


Quote:
ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

... After 14 years in a dark corner sediment somehow seperated from the solution. It was small white elongated flakes simlilar to what one might get from sawing through white plastic W/a hacksaw. It wasn't plastic though as it was dry & would crumble when rubbed between the fingers. There wasn't a lot of it, just enough to clog the inline filter in the fill line.
That seemed to happen more back in the day, likely because of the oils used then. The "cure" was to let the jug sit unopened in the sun for a while to let it warm up. The specs would be redissolved into the fuel and then the fuel would be be perfectly usable .
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Old 07-13-2013, 05:47 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

I think the specks are castor that has fallen out of suspension.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:05 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

Quote:
ORIGINAL: spaceworm


That seemed to happen more back in the day, likely because of the oils used then. The ''cure'' was to let the jug sit unopened in the sun for a while to let it warm up. The specs would be redissolved into the fuel and then the fuel would be be perfectly usable .
There were no "specks" in the unopened jug of fuel that was bought (in a 4 gallon case) @ the same time & stored in exactly the same manner.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: aspeed

I think the specks are castor that has fallen out of suspension.
Cool Power does not contain castor. That's why I use it exclusively in my Saito engines.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:18 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

+1 to filtering through coffee filters.
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Old 07-13-2013, 05:09 PM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

i have a filter in my fuel line in side my tank>>> one fulter on the fuel line from the pump tp the fuel tank
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:03 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

Plain and simple is that the fuel has soured. The sediment is castor oil that has congealed. Strain the remaining fuel through a coffee filter and all your losing is some of the lubricant. I can't say how much so it becomes a gamble your taking. Engines are more expensive than fuel the choice is yours.
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:00 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

Oil doesn't just congeal and fall out of suspension, especially castor and the PAG synthetics. They have an affinity for methanol and only drop out of suspension when the water content gets too high. Then the jug will look like oil and water, separated. Most fuel companies put a defoaming additive in their fuels, and I'll go out on a limb and assume they are a type of silicone. Those silicones break down with time and will settle out requiring more defoaming additive. I mix my own car fuel and have had this phenomena happen in my car fuel where I used a silicone defoaming agent. It doesn't happen in my aero fuel where no defoaming additive is used.

Strain the boogers out and go run the fuel. If it runs okay but not great, mix it with good fuel and run it then. Should run fine.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:07 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

The white flecks that settle out in the winter? Not sure what they are, but among the people I was around, this was supposedly wax or gum in the castor coming out of solution. The result of imperfect "degumming". Supposedly this degumming involves cooling the castor oil down until the waxes precipitate, then forcing the oil through filters at high pressure. Problem is, I have not found anything online that supports this. On the contrary, according to some web pages put up by the castor oil industry in India, "degumming" is the very first thing they do to ALL castor oil, on the farm, after it's pressed. Something about heating it in the presence of steam, which removes plant proteins and other undesirable stuff. So theoretically, ALL castor you can buy is degummed.

If you do some searching (probably on the Red Max website), you'll likely find some reference to the Great Red Max Castor Oil Controversy - I believe it took place in the mid-90s, and had something to do with flakes in the fuel, too.

Flakes - even small amounts you can't see very well - can cause major problems, mainly when running 1/2-As on bladder tanks.

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Old 07-14-2013, 11:40 AM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug

That's interesting Iskandar. I didn't know castor had any type of wax in it. Makes me want to mess with a couple fuel jugs and my empty freezer. I might just have to experiment a little.

I only care to persue this since I guess I'm a purist of sorts and probably one of the biggest proponents of bean oil. My fuel has never been colder than 50 degrees Fahrenheit so I will see if I can get anything to settle from both straight SIG castor fuel and straight Klotz fuel.

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Old 07-14-2013, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: Debris in Fuel Jug


Quote:
ORIGINAL: iskandar taib

The white flecks that settle out in the winter? Not sure what they are, but among the people I was around, this was supposedly wax or gum in the castor coming out of solution. The result of imperfect ''degumming''. Supposedly this degumming involves cooling the castor oil down until the waxes precipitate, then forcing the oil through filters at high pressure. Problem is, I have not found anything online that supports this. On the contrary, according to some web pages put up by the castor oil industry in India, ''degumming'' is the very first thing they do to ALL castor oil, on the farm, after it's pressed. Something about heating it in the presence of steam, which removes plant proteins and other undesirable stuff. So theoretically, ALL castor you can buy is degummed.

If you do some searching (probably on the Red Max website), you'll likely find some reference to the Great Red Max Castor Oil Controversy - I believe it took place in the mid-90s, and had something to do with flakes in the fuel, too.

Flakes - even small amounts you can't see very well - can cause major problems, mainly when running 1/2-As on bladder tanks.

Iskandar
Again, in my case, the white flakes were in a jug of Cool Power. No castor content whatsoever.
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