B-Squared

Hello Saito Experts! I'm getting near the end of my Top Flite GS Corsair kit bash and have a few questions for all you all you experts. I've never spent this much money on an airplane motor so I want to make sure I don't mess it up. A little history...I bought it used from a guy who said he only test ran it a couple times. So I don't think it is really broken in yet. My buddy got it running really well with a 22 - 10 Zinger prop...so maybe two more tank fulls at most.


I mentioned it's going in a Corsair...but I'm making it into the Allcoast Reno Air Racer which had a much different cowl than the "Warbird" Corsair. It was modified to have exhaust outlets at the 10, 2 and 6 o'clock positions (as you look at the firewall). So my brilliant idea was to use those exhaust ports as cooling outlets...here are some pics.


So here are my questions:

1) With the # 1 cylinder at the 6 o'clock position, that puts the crankcase bleed outlet pointing straight up. My plan is to run a fuel line off the nipple out the bottom of the cowl. Has anyone mounted the engine as I have and were there any issues?

2) I would like to run a 24 inch prop...probably a 24 - 8. Anyone using using that size prop?

3) I'm using a McDaniels 6 plug glow driver with a 4.8 volt 3800 mah NiMH battery. I'm drooling over the CH ignition set up. Any opinions on either system?

4) I probably won't run it again til the spring...anything I should do to store it for a few months.

That's it...any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

a70eliminator

I really don't think you need to light all 6 just the back ones is all it needs the front plugs will glow once the cylinder fires up. I love those Saito engines. I can't imaging how much battery 6 plugs will eat up, just two can drain a 2000ma battery in just a couple three flights. I have my on board glow deactivate at slightly above idle.

B-Squared

I'll have to experiment with the glow driver when I get the plane ready to go...it would be great if I didn't need both plugs lit on each cylinder. I will set it up as you said to come on only at idle. Thanks for your input!

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Catalytic reaction will quickly light the second plug, no need to be concerned.

SrTelemaster150

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Squared

So here are my questions:

1) With the # 1 cylinder at the 6 o'clock position, that puts the crankcase bleed outlet pointing straight up. My plan is to run a fuel line off the nipple out the bottom of the cowl. Has anyone mounted the engine as I have and were there any issues?

2) I would like to run a 24 inch prop...probably a 24 - 8. Anyone using using that size prop?

3) I'm using a McDaniels 6 plug glow driver with a 4.8 volt 3800 mah NiMH battery. I'm drooling over the CH ignition set up. Any opinions on either system?

4) I probably won't run it again til the spring...anything I should do to store it for a few months.

That's it...any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

1) I would run either the #2 or #3 cylinder @ 6: o'clock to keep the crankcase breather towards the bottom to minimize oil build up in the crank case. You can rotate the engine mounts in 60° increments by changing the mounting bolt locations & the carburator can then be oriented in any location that will be needed.

2) IMO a 22X10 is not enough prop for a good running FA450R3D. The FA450R3D should swing a 24 X 10 W/enough static RPM to be in the peak torque band of the engine & uload in the air for more RPM & HP.

3) Glow drivers on large multi-cylinder engines are a waste of money IMO. They are actually more complicated than a CH Ignitions radial CDI system. Ditch the glow driver & convert to CDI. You will get slightly more power, vastly improved "user friendliness" and a significant improvement in fuel economy. My latest experiment W/an FA200Ti yielded 70% longer run time @ WOT W/CDI compared to Glow Ignition (GI). My Saito singles usually gain about 25% fuel economy, but I think multi-cylinder/single carburetor engines might gain more. Once you convert to CDI W/methanol fuel, you'll never go back to GI & probably never go to gas.

4) Make sure to run all of the fuel out of the carburetor, use ARO & most important of all, store in a climate controlled environment.

B-Squared

Thank you SrTelemaster...that was the info I was looking for. I did take your advice and moved the mounts. I had flipped the mounts 180 degrees early on to get them to fit on the firewall better but didn't think to rotate them another 60 degrees. Good call! As far as the prop that's good news too. I guess I'll have to mess around with that later on.

The CH Ignition has been hounding me for a while...I spoke with Adrien and will most likely go that route. It was good hearing an independent opinion though. Thanks again for the advice. Here's a pic of the new mounting position.

SrTelemaster150

I did my 1st CDI conversion in 1997 W/the old MK-1 C&H system. (the new company is CH Ignitions, they uese the same albeit updated technology as the old C&H)

B-Squared

SrTelemaster150...thanks again for the sound advice. Although I've been in the hobby for 20 + years now, this is only my 2nd four stroke and certainly the biggest investment I've made in the hobby. Could you educate me on your use of methanol fuel, where do you get it, what kind and how much oil do you use etc. It sounds very interesting...I look forward to hearing from you! (Sorry if you've explained this before).

SrTelemaster150

When I mention "methanol fuel" I am generally referring to Glow fuel that is methanol based W/lube & in some cases, nitro added.

The Cool Power glow fuel I use is 15% nitro, 17% synthetic lube & of course that leaves 68% methanol.

I live in a somewhat remote area that is several hour's drive from any sizable city so to even get glow fuel @ a reasonable price I must buy when I am on vacation in the Indianapolis area. I pay about $17 a gallon when I buy 4 gallon cases from Hobbytown USA on the Northeast side of Indy.

If I lived in that area I would get some 5 gallon jugs & buy methanol from bulk suppliers in Indianapolis. It is available for a little over $2 a gallon, or about $98 for a 55 gallon drum.

For lube, Klotz is available from SIG manufacturing for $40 a gallon & if you add some product to your order (SIG has LOTS of “products”) to bring the total to $50 or more, shipping is free. There is no “hazmat” fee for Klotz.

If you mix 1 gallon of Klotz to 5 gallons of methanol you will have 6 gallons of 0% nitro/17% lube/83% methanol “fuel” that willm total about $51 for a cost of $8.50 a gallon.

You do not “need” any nitro W/CDI, however, nitro will raise power output.

My 12.8:1 compression FA180HC CDI/BBC engine made 3.4HP on 15% nitro/16% lube Cool Power glow fuel. It made 3.9HP on 30%/8% glow fuel.

If you live near a city that has a large drag racing venue, by all means investigate buying Methanol from a bulk source. I have been told that some propane distibutors also carry methanol.

kochj

I picked up a saito 450 NIB with a kelo exhuase and a Sonitronic glow driver....( was a bonus as I had planned place Adrians 3cyl ignition ) and place a Zema carb and run gasoline.

One thing to note...
The Sonictronic Glow driver distributes the power in a "flicker" program. This way the plugs are not draining power all the time....but the glow plugs do not know the difference, and stays lit.

I have heard of guys powering there wires on the saito 5-cyl with as much as 3.4 volts? As it just drains the batteries like MAD....Wiring 4-C size batteries to equal 1.2 but hold 6000Mah.... didn't last long at all

SrTelemaster150

You need about 3 AMPS to light a glow plug. In a 5 cylinder glow engine that's 15a (15000Ma) in series @ 1.2v so that 6000Mah battery will only give 15 minutes of lit glow plugs in the 5 cylinder. That is barely enough reserve for a 10 minute flight considering 5 minutes of constant glow heat will be used for idling, taxiing & low throttle landing aproach.

A 5 cylinder CDI uses about 4000Ma @ 4.8v so a 2000Mah 4.8v pack will last 30 minutes & can be topped off via a quick charge between 10 minute flights.

I size my RX & Ignition packs so that I can alternate charging either between flights.