Large glow engines - are they passing away?
12-17-2013, 11:36 AM
#76
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This is just my opinion, which may not be the same as most people. Not trying to argue any point here, but for me I like tuning engines. To me, there's nothing better than hearing a perfectly tuned 4 stroke coming in to land, or hitting the throttle hard on a vertical. I don't mind the mess that much. I use a good wax on Ultracote to keep scuffs from showing, and it makes it pretty easy to clean.
I've got a few small electrics for indoor flying. I'm fortunate enough to work part of the year teaching college kids to fly r/c and I've bought about a dozen park flyers for that. Electric doesn't turn my crank.
It just isn't as much fun. I've tried to make myself like it, but it ain't happening. I would be happy with 90 sized glow engines from now on. I could live with 60 or 90 sized models.
I'm building a 30 size Cloud Ranger for work over the holidays. The electric stuff for it is heavy and just as expensive as if it were glow. I look at the big brick battery and worry about fire. There's nothing to love. But that Saito 30 GK sitting on the shelf is a thing of beauty and I admit loving that engine. Plus, I can work on it if I want to.
Just my .02 cents. I would sure hate to see things get more lopsided towards electric.
I've got a few small electrics for indoor flying. I'm fortunate enough to work part of the year teaching college kids to fly r/c and I've bought about a dozen park flyers for that. Electric doesn't turn my crank.
It just isn't as much fun. I've tried to make myself like it, but it ain't happening. I would be happy with 90 sized glow engines from now on. I could live with 60 or 90 sized models.I'm building a 30 size Cloud Ranger for work over the holidays. The electric stuff for it is heavy and just as expensive as if it were glow. I look at the big brick battery and worry about fire. There's nothing to love. But that Saito 30 GK sitting on the shelf is a thing of beauty and I admit loving that engine. Plus, I can work on it if I want to.
Just my .02 cents. I would sure hate to see things get more lopsided towards electric.
SandyT
12-17-2013, 11:56 AM
#77
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Interesting. I work with a guy who drag races (full scale). He just converted his engine to burn methanol. He said race gasoline is around $10 a gallon and methanol is around $3 per gallon. He said a lot of his racing buddies are doing the same. He said he thinks methanol is the future for drag racing. LOL.
12-17-2013, 12:03 PM
#78
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I too prefer glow engines. It is part of the hobby for me. But to each his own.
I do have a concern with gas. The manufacturers need to start including more effective stock mufflers and modelers need to start using three-bladed props. The gas engines with stock mufflers are loud. I worry that clubs will be losing their flying sites with everyone flying gas. Two local clubs here already have received noise compliants. I know guys who do a good job of controlling their noise level, but they spend more on mufflers and props than the do on their gas engines.
I do have a concern with gas. The manufacturers need to start including more effective stock mufflers and modelers need to start using three-bladed props. The gas engines with stock mufflers are loud. I worry that clubs will be losing their flying sites with everyone flying gas. Two local clubs here already have received noise compliants. I know guys who do a good job of controlling their noise level, but they spend more on mufflers and props than the do on their gas engines.
Last edited by JPMacG; 12-17-2013 at 12:05 PM.
12-17-2013, 12:07 PM
#79
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I still have a Moki 1.80 in my GP 1/3 Pitts and I love it. Even though the thing is an oily mess I love the sound and power of the big 2-cycle's.
I suspect I'll always have one in something
S
I suspect I'll always have one in something
S
12-17-2013, 12:15 PM
#80
Senior Member
Interesting. I work with a guy who drag races (full scale). He just converted his engine to burn methanol. He said race gasoline is around $10 a gallon and methanol is around $3 per gallon. He said a lot of his racing buddies are doing the same. He said he thinks methanol is the future for drag racing. LOL.
"Racing gas" doesn't neccessarily make more HP. In fact, if the engine is not high enough compression to require the higher octane it will diminish power. Higher octane only raises the flash point to prevent detonation in very high compression engines. Methanol not only has a higher flash point, in the volumes that can be burned in an ICE it make more power.
12-17-2013, 12:44 PM
#81
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It is amazing how many people don't get that. High octane fuels don't make more horsepower. Higher compression engines do make more horsepower (and are more efficient). Higher octane fuels allow those engines to do it without self-destructing.
12-17-2013, 12:45 PM
#82
I told a buddy at work about methanol for a motorcycle, and the next weekend he set up his 750 Honda with it. He said there was a big puddle on the ground, and he had to make some new gaskets for the carb. He took it out on the expressway, and almost rear ended the guy in front of him. He had since run his car on it too. 400 with a blower and methanol. Quickest car I was ever in. It is always good to run something that the government hasn't taxed yet.
12-17-2013, 01:46 PM
#85
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There are advantages and disadvantages of all propulsion systems. Something that hasn't been mentioned is the abnormally high vibration levels that gassers produce. Anything less than good strong servos will destroy themselves in time and your plane with it. Not saying the big strikers don't shake, but gassers win the prize for shaking servos and airframes to pieces.
12-17-2013, 02:01 PM
#86
Nonsense.
When I started with giant models the most used power plants were Quadras and then Zenoas. Shakers, you bet, particularly when idling. But we flew the Nosen line and Balsa USA with regular Futaba servos (one in each surface). And I still have a 22+ year old powered with the original Quadra 42. Of course, I did re-do this model once, and it has newer standard Futaba servos (on all surfaces).
So, no I have not seen those "shaking servos and airframes to pieces" in my 40 plus years in the hobby. It is the white cub in the picture (on right). The yellow cub (Sig clipped wing) is still around, after years of being powered by a gasser and NO it did not shake nothing to pieces either... Nor do I have any buddy that had his model shaken to pieces...
The giant stick was boring on a Z26 (boring, but not shaken). I guess it also survived the gasser well, as did the servos. Now it has a 1.6 electric on 10 cells, has unlimited vertical, and is so much fun to fly it is hard to describe.
Gerry
When I started with giant models the most used power plants were Quadras and then Zenoas. Shakers, you bet, particularly when idling. But we flew the Nosen line and Balsa USA with regular Futaba servos (one in each surface). And I still have a 22+ year old powered with the original Quadra 42. Of course, I did re-do this model once, and it has newer standard Futaba servos (on all surfaces).
So, no I have not seen those "shaking servos and airframes to pieces" in my 40 plus years in the hobby. It is the white cub in the picture (on right). The yellow cub (Sig clipped wing) is still around, after years of being powered by a gasser and NO it did not shake nothing to pieces either... Nor do I have any buddy that had his model shaken to pieces...
The giant stick was boring on a Z26 (boring, but not shaken). I guess it also survived the gasser well, as did the servos. Now it has a 1.6 electric on 10 cells, has unlimited vertical, and is so much fun to fly it is hard to describe.
Gerry
12-17-2013, 02:01 PM
#87
Senior Member
There are advantages and disadvantages of all propulsion systems. Something that hasn't been mentioned is the abnormally high vibration levels that gassers produce. Anything less than good strong servos will destroy themselves in time and your plane with it. Not saying the big strikers don't shake, but gassers win the prize for shaking servos and airframes to pieces.
When I left the hobby the only place metal gear servos were used, even in GS warbirds, was the rudder and/or tailwheel due to contact W/the ground.
When I retrned last year, I was admonished for using non MG servos in my TF GS FW190A on the elevator, ailerons & flaps. Since I'm using a modified Saito FA450R3D radial, I don't feel that that my non-MG servos are an issue since the TQ specs are more than ample.
This is another hidden cost of big single cylinder gassers not to mention the added wear & tear on the rest of the airframe as you mentioned.
12-17-2013, 02:15 PM
#88
Our last glo fuel setup, was a 3200ST on tuned exhaust and using a handmade ignition system
we used 5% nitro , 20% synthetic oil
instant starting - super good idle and more power than non ignition control setup.
best aerobatic IC setup ever for it's size.
All my stuf is now electric powered.
more power yet !
we used 5% nitro , 20% synthetic oil
instant starting - super good idle and more power than non ignition control setup.
best aerobatic IC setup ever for it's size.
All my stuf is now electric powered.
more power yet !
12-17-2013, 02:38 PM
#89
Our last glo fuel setup, was a 3200ST on tuned exhaust and using a handmade ignition system
we used 5% nitro , 20% synthetic oil
instant starting - super good idle and more power than non ignition control setup.
best aerobatic IC setup ever for it's size.
All my stuf is now electric powered.
more power yet !
we used 5% nitro , 20% synthetic oil
instant starting - super good idle and more power than non ignition control setup.
best aerobatic IC setup ever for it's size.
All my stuf is now electric powered.
more power yet !
You will get decent power at the start of a flight, but electrics drop off. With IC you get full power for the whole flight. No comparison really.
12-17-2013, 02:49 PM
#90
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The sound of a Cox .010 excites me. For me any (decent) glow engine running creates an air of anticipation and excitement. Other than Moki radials, most gas engines sound boring to my ears. Not to say they don't do the job well, they do, but as to sound..ho hum. Perhaps the only thing less exciting is watching large gassers hover. To each his own.
12-17-2013, 02:57 PM
#91
The sound of a Cox .010 excites me. For me any (decent) glow engine running creates an air of anticipation and excitement. Other than Moki radials, most gas engines sound boring to my ears. Not to say they don't do the job well, they do, but as to sound..ho hum. Perhaps the only thing less exciting is watching large gassers hover. To each his own.
Gerry
12-17-2013, 03:05 PM
#92
As you say, no comparison really....
I fly both, big electric and gas, and I like both. When I quit slimepower like 10 years ago, I kept the starter in case I get the urge to own a nitro again. The urge has not happened, still waiting:-)
Gerry
12-17-2013, 03:44 PM
#93
Flight times are shorter fer shere - but power ?
I have run everthing from .020 glow to 160 gas in 42 % EXTRAS-
The present electric stuf out powers the IC's
Not even a contest.
I have run everthing from .020 glow to 160 gas in 42 % EXTRAS-
The present electric stuf out powers the IC's
Not even a contest.
12-17-2013, 03:59 PM
#94
Senior Member
8850RPM W/an 18 X 8 prop & it can do it all day W/just a few minutes quick charge on the RX & CDI batteries between 10 minute flights.
12-17-2013, 04:38 PM
#97
You have to compare equivalent setups to compare power. Of course you will get more power if you put a bigger motor than the original IC equivalent.
When you have maximum model weight and size limits such as in pattern, you can then compare.
For electrics to be competitive in pattern, the FAI reduced the number of manoeuvres from 23 to 17 and put the power hungry manoeuvres at the beginning of the schedule.
At the world championships in South Africa recently, it was very windy and many of the electrics were struggling for power and duration. Some were landing with less than 10% left in their batteries.
With 10% fuel left in my tank I still have full power.
This says it all.
When you have maximum model weight and size limits such as in pattern, you can then compare.
For electrics to be competitive in pattern, the FAI reduced the number of manoeuvres from 23 to 17 and put the power hungry manoeuvres at the beginning of the schedule.
At the world championships in South Africa recently, it was very windy and many of the electrics were struggling for power and duration. Some were landing with less than 10% left in their batteries.
With 10% fuel left in my tank I still have full power.
This says it all.
12-17-2013, 04:42 PM
#98
Senior Member
12-17-2013, 04:54 PM
#99
I'll bet you you can't make more power than my modifed FA180 running on CDI/nitro/methanol W/16oz of fuel on board, in the same all up wieght, in a similar airframe, W/the same endurance.
8850RPM W/an 18 X 8 prop & it can do it all day W/just a few minutes quick charge on the RX & CDI batteries between 10 minute flights.
8850RPM W/an 18 X 8 prop & it can do it all day W/just a few minutes quick charge on the RX & CDI batteries between 10 minute flights.
Yes, but the real fact is you do not do this on all day long:-) Nobody would enjoy doing it nonstop all day long.... I had an electric that could fly 30' on one charge. So, I flew 2 times w/o recharging. Personally whatever the fuel is, 10 minutes is what I will fly before landing...
Some people fly more than others. I rarely do more than 3 to a max of 6 flights, and in most cases bring 3 models to the field (only 2 if both are giant scale). There is something for everybody in this hobby.
Gerry
12-17-2013, 05:04 PM
#100
Senior Member
Well I'm basically a "scale" fan. Not top gun rivets & all, but I still like a model that looks & somewhat sounds, like the full scale counterpart. It's my way of putting myself in the pilot's seat of a WW II warbird or J-3 Cub, etc.
I'm not aware of any full scale electric aircraft that were ever used in any significant numbers so I fly 4 stroke ICE.
You can't get this from electrics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN1_-xmVLIo
I'm not aware of any full scale electric aircraft that were ever used in any significant numbers so I fly 4 stroke ICE.
You can't get this from electrics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN1_-xmVLIo
Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 12-17-2013 at 05:33 PM.