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Four Stroke Valve Train Lubrication

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Old 04-08-2014, 02:33 AM
  #101
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We must ALL have something in common.I'm an australian.My dad was a lifelong traditional carpenter.Plus i smoke and i stink.

Brownings were held in high regard back then my uncle roy used to shoot ducks and canadian geese with an a5 humpback,i never liked the sight picture.His daughter judith had a slick slideaction browning 22 that was a joy to carry and shoot.Earl has described how poor you could be back then and just buy cheaper short rifle ammo I still miss the smell and feel of soft cardboard boxes.The early seventies was a time when manufacturers took a few liberties when it came to advertising over here.We had cci minimags,zappers,magnums etc all claiming higher velocities but not many users thought about projectile weight.It's why i like the hornet so much.

Don't worry to much about night sights earl.Just creep forward left hand out till you feel something unfriendly

Ps 1qwk in mauser 8mm there were two different rounds that would both chamber in the smaller bore action think it was an 8x by something s or j??
7mm is too small and 8mm is too big. They are a weird caliber, something like 7.63mm and 7.69mm or something.
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:05 AM
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Ps 1qwk in mauser 8mm there were two different rounds that would both chamber in the smaller bore action think it was an 8x by something s or j??

There were indeed 2 different 8X57s. There was the 8X57 I (the I often mistaken for a J) for Infantry. That utilized a .318" bullet. Sometime before WW I, a new spritzer bullet of .323" diameter was employed & the cartridge was renamed 8X57 IS (Infantry Spitzer)

In the USA ammo manufacturers load the 8X57 W/.323" bullets @ pathetic pressure levels to protect "Bubba" in case he loads the rounds into an "88" Commission rifle designed for .318" bullets. MV is 2400 fps W/a 170gr bullet. European rounds are typically loaded W/200gr bullets in the 2600-2700 fps range.

I reload my 8X57 rounds for my modern manufactured M98 action to 2700+ fps W/a 200gr bullet

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 04-08-2014 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:40 AM
  #103
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Y'all are gun buffs it seems. Anyone know where I can get ammo for these guns? #1 is model 1891 Mauser made for the Argentine Army. Not sure on year of manufacture but the serial #s all match except for the clip. #4945 is stamped on the action, stock, etc. #2 is a 1916 Mauser Geweir 98 (Gew 98 or G98 are common names for this iconic and now common rifle) with serial number 1231 on all parts. No clip on this one, No Bayonette mounts,!or Bayonettes on these, and they're both in the 7mm family. Although I've found them to be a non standard caliber based on my internet searches. Neither will shoot the same ammo I believe.

Alright, 2 off topic posts. My bad. My Browning hump-back 16ga semi auto and the poor Mossberg .22LR semi auto want to go shooting with their Mauser buddies but without ammo it just ain't worth it. The Browning is my baby.
I used a 7.65 Argentine rifle for deer hunting as a teenager. It uses a 7.65mm x 53mm cartridge. There are quite a few sources for the 7.65x53 Argentine ammo. Way back then I only had Norma who made the factory ammo. But I used to reload my own ammunition for hunting purposes. I still have the reloading dies around here some place. When I first started I used the Lee Reloading sets that were more manual in use, no press. There are dies for the RCBS presses too.

The 7mm Mauser of 7x57 Mauser was primarily used by the Spanish military. It was the rifle in use at the time that the Americans had to face during the Spanish American War. It had superior ballistics to the Krag Jorgenson or Springfield 1892-99 rifles or the 45-70 rifles that the US Army was using against the Spanish. You can buy ammo for them still as there are numerous rifles here in the USA that were sold as surplus over the years.

Some countries used 6.5mm caliber rifles too. The Swedish used the 6.5x55. That 6.5mm caliber was quite popular with quite a few countries but the cartridge sizes tended to be all different between them though. The Japanese used it as did the Italians too.

As previously mentioned the 8mm Mauser or 8x57 came in two sizes .318 and .323 calibers. The early models used the smaller bullets and the later models used the larger bullets. You can get the bullets in either size and reload the ammunition as needed too. I advise against firing the modern .323 caliber ammo in the older .318 caliber rifles though. use the correct bullets. I remember them selling old surplus rifles in the old .318 bore that didn't need to be sold by a FFL dealer as they were considered collectible and unsafe to shoot. So beware if you plan on shooting one, you need to use the correct ammo for them. I remember getting a few to convert the action over for sporting purposes using other barrels and stocks on them.

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Old 04-08-2014, 08:34 AM
  #104
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I think my only complaint about diesel fuel was that the kerosene tends to soak into the skin and it doesn't wash off, you have to wear it off.
I never liked kerosene smell. However, I did like the partially burned JP-4 and Jet A smell from running engines.

Can't argue with your lineup, Earl. Nice guns. I have the Judge one place, a S&W Model 669 9mm elsewhere, and a .30 carbine in another area. One of my .22's is a Browning Buckmark.

I'm with you OF in liking the Hornet round. I still have my Estwing 28 oz hammer from the '70s, if anyone remembers those. Mine was the flooring hammer and not a claw. That's all they had so I got it. The blue handle turned green years ago. It got real heavy near quitting time, but it would drive a nail with one hit.

One word OF- Chantix. It was a miracle drug for me.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:00 AM
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I think 7.63 is basically 30 caliber converted to metric. Slight variations in size to fill the grooves of the rifleing.
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Old 04-09-2014, 02:13 AM
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Thanks blw doing the research now,also reading alan carrs book
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Old 04-09-2014, 11:03 AM
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Sent you a pm.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:48 AM
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I think 7.63 is basically 30 caliber converted to metric. Slight variations in size to fill the grooves of the rifleing.
The 7.62 was our winnie 308 round in the service SLR.You could probably cal it a 7.61 or 7.63 and not be proved wrong re supplied ammunition.7mm has always been a freaky caliber re long range real time shooting effectiveness.Long time back there was a bit of heated discussion about american 30-06 (previously the 30-03) and the 8x57 out over 300mtrs and more.The funny thing was it always harked back to the to that perrenial campfire question...'if you could only have one rifle/under and over rifle shotgun/shotgun/handgun weapon for hunting all things what would it be' ??

Has the op bought his bloody 82 yet or has the so and so gone twostroke or even worse electric..i don't care now
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Old 04-10-2014, 04:31 AM
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Long time back there was a bit of heated discussion about american 30-06 (previously the 30-03) and the 8x57 out over 300mtrs and more.The funny thing was it always harked back to the to that perrenial campfire question...'if you could only have one rifle/under and over rifle shotgun/shotgun/handgun weapon for hunting all things what would it be' ??
Being under employed for the last 5 years, I had to sell all but one of my functional big game rifles. I had a 7mm-08, .280 Remington & a really nice 8X57 that I built on an intermediate length Vz500 commercial Yugoslavian 98 action.


Guess what rifle I kept? Out to 300yds, the 8X57, loaded to modern pressure specs W/200gr bullets blows away the others & out-performs the 30/06 @ all ranges when bullets of 200grs or more are employed. Every Whitetail that I have hit squarely through the lungs W/either .323" 200gr Nosler Partitions or Speer Hot-Cores has dropped in its tracks.

To me, .30 caliber is an in between choice. Too large for true long range compared to the 7mm cartridges, not as versatile W/ heavier bullets as 8mm for larger game @ moderate ranges.

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Old 04-11-2014, 06:32 AM
  #110
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Yeah that never ending thing about which cartridge and or bullet is better. We even get that with model engines too. But I have to agree in that the .32 caliber or 8mm boat tail bullet offered superior ballistics to the other caliber bullets. But I don't think it matters much as to what one uses, it really depends on the skill and knowledge of the hunter. I remember guys using old beat up 30-30's always getting their deer every year. Then there was that one year I went Elk hunting and I carried my old 7.65 Argentine rifle with iron sights. Some of the other guys had beautiful expensive rifles, but they couldn't use them as their nice anti-fog scopes fogged up on them. But I did get my Elk though.
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:46 PM
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Boy, this thread got off topic quick! I learned what I needed to (regarding the valve train on my OS26FS), and was reminded that us modelers are a diverse bunch! Motorcycles, shooting, music, little diesel engines, etc. All interests of mine. I'm downsizing my collection of everything in order to fund helicopter flight training soon, but still enjoy fiddling with what I have (and will have left, since I'm not getting out completely!). I'll admit to having never run any of my diesels (been so busy as of late), but I do enjoy the smell of burnt kerosene. I can hardly wait to find myself in a turbine ship, not just for how smooth and quiet they are, but partly because of the smell (yeah, I'm a bit odd, I suppose), probably because it reminds me of flying so much.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:38 PM
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You like smelling burnt kerosene too? You're fitting in just fine.

The good old 30-30 has killed the bulk of deer down here in woods and brush. I'm not going to hunt again, so I recently sold the Marlin 30-30 I bought around 1975 or 76.

I guess we got a little off topic.
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Old 04-16-2014, 12:31 AM
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I figured you guys were just staying busy while I do the long term test on my Saito 30.
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:02 AM
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I just pulled the rocker covers on my Saito FA-180. The exhaust rocker was covered in oil, but the intake side, while not "dry", wasn't really wet either.

That points to the positive pressure in the exhaust port forcing oil into the rocker box. The engine has only been run upright on a test stand. I would expect better oiling of the intake rocker when mounted horizontally & especially inverted as it will be in an aircraft.
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:55 AM
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Yes it does'nt seem to matter which rocker cover i pull off a well tuned saito they always have oil on them,and plenty of it.

CL i'm interested to see what you think of your saito 30 long term,i love mine and for such a small engine the performance they give is always surprising.

Blw i had a winnie 94 and years back i read a funny story about canadian indians moose shooting with the 30/30.They said they used to sneak up real close and 'shootum moose plenty times',then sit down and boil the billie for a nice hot cup of tea.After an hour or two they would get up and track it down.
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:59 AM
  #116
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I am a fan of small glow 4 strokes also, its amazing how well they pull a plane with so little displacement.
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Old 04-17-2014, 02:22 PM
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Jeff, I've been saying for a long time that fourstrokes may not look so good on paper HP but excel at flying power.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 04-17-2014 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 04-17-2014, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fart View Post
Yes it does'nt seem to matter which rocker cover i pull off a well tuned saito they always have oil on them,and plenty of it.

CL i'm interested to see what you think of your saito 30 long term,i love mine and for such a small engine the performance they give is always surprising.

Blw i had a winnie 94 and years back i read a funny story about canadian indians moose shooting with the 30/30.They said they used to sneak up real close and 'shootum moose plenty times',then sit down and boil the billie for a nice hot cup of tea.After an hour or two they would get up and track it down.

I've heard that .22rf was the cartridge of choice as the moose would not realize that they had been shot when lung hit ( little or no shock) & just stand while they bled out.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:05 PM
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I have a couple of OS FS-26 engines in a Twinstar plane and they do sound pretty awesome in the air when I am flying it around. my P=82 twin Mustang doesn't seem to sound as good though. it has two Saito FA-40a engines on it. But yeah since the four strokes turn bigger propellers they tend to be quite efficient even though they are down in horsepower compared to the two stroke engines.

BLW, you could probably go pig hunting nowadays. Since feral pigs are everywhere and breeding like rabbits, most ranchers and farmers would likely love it for people to hunt the animals. That reminds me of when I last went pig hunting. I was using my old Remington .35 semi-auto rifle with 220 grain jacketed flat tip bullets. Anyway I had walked up to the bank edge of this dry creek and was standing there with a tree behind me, when I big boar tusker came down the creek. I was staying still and following him with the rifle aimed at him, hoping he would stop long enough for me to get a good aim on him. He was maybe 100 feet away from me. He suddenly turned and stopped looking right at me. I took a shot right at the head and hit him right between the eyes. He dropped instantly, but I wasn't going to go near him though, no way. So I moved off to the right to get a better angle and shot him in the front of the chest between the legs. I then moved more to the right. A number of seconds later, he suddenly got up and charged up the bank to the tree and stopped at the base of it looking up as though he had me treed or something. So then I shot him again in side for a heart shot and that dropped him for sure then. But I stayed away for a while just to be sure though. I hadn't had to shoot a pig three times before though. Especially with that rifle, as it usually dropped them instantly. When we cleaned the pig I found that the head shot literally bounced off the skull and left a groove in it. The front chest shot bullet actually barely got through the breastplate. I think all that cartilage in front sort of flexed and had some give to it and slowed the bullet down so it couldn't penetrate it. The third shot went in between the ribs and blew out the heart real good though and lit didn't come out the other side either. I still have the two bullets around here someplace too, they actually mushroomed out fairly well too. it was a big pig too, but I didn't have a way to weigh it or anything at the time. Anyway pig hunting is something of a lost cause as they breed faster than people can shoot or trap them. Plus they are amazingly smart and catch on real fast too.

Last edited by earlwb; 04-17-2014 at 05:08 PM. Reason: add more info
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:32 PM
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I have flown both two and four strokes on the same airframe and noticed the fours will pull through maneuvers at part throttle quite easily while the two strokes will bog down more. It relates to the fours ability to make a broad flat torque curve while the two stroke is peaky and narrow at the top end of the rpm range.
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Old 04-18-2014, 08:32 AM
  #121
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OF- I have a new 30 GK that will go on a 4 Star 20. It is almost too good looking to put on a model. That's funny about the moose story. We use them a lot down here since it is a good round for shooting through brush and leaves. You don't get a lot of long shots unless hunting on a farmers field. Interesting story, Sr. I don't know what to think about that. I've heard the .22 rim fire is the favorite round for assassination shots to the head. It will penetrate bone only once, and ricochet around inside until running out of energy. Kinda gruesome thought. We have had wild pigs down here Earl for years. The first thing anyone says is to never trust them. I guess you saw that to be true. I heard stories about hitting them with something really big from the bed of a truck and the boars would attack the truck before collapsing. And stories of tusks going through calves, etc.

Jeffie, I have a new weedeater that is a 26cc two stroke. My old Ryobi was a 4 stroke, and it would cut thru anything at low throttle. Lots of instant torque that would cut effortlessly. The clutch went out and the engine had been out of production for years, so I bought the Echo two stroke. What a change! I had to get used to getting that up to max rpm before getting into the cutting. It won't cut much unless you wait to get it revved up. I sure miss that Ryobi.
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:59 PM
  #122
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I bought a new Ryobi four stroke trimmer a year or two ago, and it works pretty well. The only thing I don't like is that it weighs so much more than the two stroke trimmers do. I did get the min-chainsaw branch cutter attachment for the Ryobi trimmer and that is a pretty neat tool though. It gets a bit tiring to carry it around trimming away after a while. I had a previous 4 stroke trimmer that quit working, so I started converting it over for airplane usage. I need to finish it up soon though. I need to mount the magnet and timing sensor and fabricate some kind of a motor mount for it. Anyway when the new trimmer quits I will consider converting it too.

Anyway with the four stroke model airplane engines, if they aren't inverted, the top end valve train tends to get little to nothing for oil lubrication. The only oil it gets is that oil vapor that comes in past the lifters and sneaks past the valve via the valve guides. Thus not a lot of oil gets to the top end, so adding some oil there is a good idea as far as I am concerned. Also what happens with the engine inverted is that any oil in the cambox region tends to slowly migrate to the top end when the engine and airplane is just sitting there doing nothing. But you don't want to leave the engine inverted like that when storing it for another day, as the oil slowly migrates past the piston and collects at the top of the combustion chamber where the glow plug usually is and that drowns out the glow plug causing it to fail the next time you go to light it up. In some cases a hydraulic lock could develop too. So you store the engine so it is upright or horizontal to keep the oil off of the glow plug.

Last edited by earlwb; 04-18-2014 at 03:10 PM. Reason: typo correction
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Old 04-18-2014, 05:23 PM
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I should have mentioned that i don't run any of my saitos upright,even side mounted they get plenty of oil in the top end.Once bought a two stroke brushcutter that made more horsepower than my lawnmower,smelt nice on castrol r but you had to use it carefully.You are right about the 22lr,had a gunsmith mate here years ago that developed a unique rapid fire action and system for personal or corporate payroll defence.He took it to the states to demonstrate it and has'nt been seen since as far as i know.Only got treed once by a large razorback after a magazine failure and dropping the rifle to get up the tree,the pig stomped it a bit.Used to hunt pigs in the new south wales outback with an old guy who used nothing but an old baikal 12ga side by side russian coach gun,00sg's in the left barrel and a solid slug in the right.Saw him fire both barrels once,the solid slug cleaned mum up and the 00's got half the kids.I was using a 45/70.Once met five aboriginal guys in an old landrover with a big wire cage on the back that had three large live pigs in it and four dogs riding on top,they take them into town and sell them to the local butcher(the pigs that is) and occasionally you will lose a dog if they get too keen and start chasing kangaroos.

Look forward to you guys letting us know how your saito 30's are going,i'm about to drag mine out of the cobwebs and start it.It's mounted in a pheonix rainbow.

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Old 04-18-2014, 06:04 PM
  #124
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I think the OS26Surpass is going to be awesome on my 4 Star 20, The Saito30 should be extra fun.
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