Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

30% Helicopter Fuel for Saito 4 strokes and OS 4 & 2 stroke airplane engines ?

Reply
Old 04-19-2014, 05:45 AM
  #1
Granpooba
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queensbury, NY
Posts: 1,357
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default 30% Helicopter Fuel for Saito 4 strokes and OS 4 & 2 stroke airplane engines ?

This may be an old question / subject, but will put it to you folks anyways.

Have been reading where people instead of using 10 or 15% fuels in their engines, have been switching over to 30% Helicopter fuels. The statements that I have been reading say that they are getting more power from their engines and more cooling. Just wondering if anybody can confirm these statements ?

Just for the heck of it, purchased my first gallon of fuel for the season yesterday and it was 30%, of which I will be giving it a try in some Saito 4 strokes, OS 4 strokes and OS 2 strokes. I may add that it is also somewhat on the costly side.

Any comments or advise on this subject ? Besides the fact that the engines may have to retuned.

Last edited by Granpooba; 04-19-2014 at 02:55 PM.
Granpooba is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 07:57 AM
  #2
1QwkSport2.5r
 
1QwkSport2.5r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cottage Grove, MN
Posts: 8,761
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

30% should be fine. Run it in your OS and Saito engines and you're fine. I'm sure TT engines would handle it fine as well. The average sport engine isn't compressed near high enough to have issues with high nitro. Higher compressed engines will have problems with it like Super Tigre and Fox; that is without adding shims under the head.
1QwkSport2.5r is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 09:54 AM
  #3
jeffie8696
 
jeffie8696's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Muscatine, IA
Posts: 5,280
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Been using 30% heli fuel in my Magnum 52 FS for a while, no problems. My fuel has 18% lube and I use that as a minimum percentage when selecting my fuels. I could use it in my other 4 strokes but they run fine on just 15%. That particular Magnum 52 isn't quite as "refined" as my Saitos or OSessess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtBmcXQpUYk
jeffie8696 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 02:59 PM
  #4
Granpooba
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queensbury, NY
Posts: 1,357
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffie8696 View Post
Been using 30% heli fuel in my Magnum 52 FS for a while, no problems. My fuel has 18% lube and I use that as a minimum percentage when selecting my fuels. I could use it in my other 4 strokes but they run fine on just 15%. That particular Magnum 52 isn't quite as "refined" as my Saitos or OSessess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtBmcXQpUYk
Yes, I too have been using 15% in all of my engines for years now. Just have read some good reviews about the 30% blend and decided to give it a try. Figure, what could it hurt ? Maybe the engine !
Granpooba is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 03:29 PM
  #5
jeffie8696
 
jeffie8696's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Muscatine, IA
Posts: 5,280
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I am not attached to that Magnum so if she blows so be it.
jeffie8696 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 03:53 PM
  #6
aspeed
 
aspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ruthven, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,839
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

30% is no problem, we used to run 60 and 80% with no problems. (well maybe a few broken cranks and blown plugs, and prematurely worn out piston/cyl.....)
aspeed is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 03:55 PM
  #7
Granpooba
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queensbury, NY
Posts: 1,357
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffie8696 View Post
I am not attached to that Magnum so if she blows so be it.
I hear ya ! Also hard for me to get attached to anything mechanical. If they blow, they are easily replaced. Also, lesson learned.
Granpooba is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 05:12 PM
  #8
jeffie8696
 
jeffie8696's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Muscatine, IA
Posts: 5,280
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

If my Saito gave up I would be moved, but not the Magnum.
jeffie8696 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 06:00 PM
  #9
Tony Iannucelli
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Parrish, FL
Posts: 382
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Been using 20-20 Powermaster and Cool Power full synthetic for over 15 years in everything, including helis, cars, and planes too. Never a problem. Broad needle settings, good idle, good power. Never noticed much of a gain in 30% over 20 which I tried a case of a few years ago. Save a few bucks too on 20.
Tony Iannucelli is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 07:24 PM
  #10
husafreak
 
husafreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 723
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

30% fuel is expensive but it will run fine in engines not designed for low nitro. You will get some more power for sure. You will probably need to richen the needle valve. If your engine runs cooler it will be because of the increased fuel flow through the engine. If you run lean it will get hot and die quicker.
husafreak is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 09:02 PM
  #11
rslstft
 
rslstft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Tustin, CA
Posts: 391
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I only ran 30% in all my Saito engines for years and years. No downside except for the cost, but I mixed my own fuel, got methanol and nitro for free, so the cost wasn't a factor for me. Usually you will have to retune the engine just slightly, but get a lower and more dependable idle. As far as more power, I'm not sure as I never ran any lower percentage, so I can't compare. Most of my engines had gallons and gallons of fuel through them without any problems. One of the twin cylinder engines is on it's second set of bearings it's so old (in an old Cub floatplane) and has had probably 100 gallons burned in it. Just make sure you have a minumum of 18% oil and you should be just fine.
rslstft is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 10:29 PM
  #12
JPGale
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 488
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I have only run 15% in my saito's so I have little experience with them but I have run nothing less than 30% heli in my YS engines and they purr on it.
JPGale is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 07:04 AM
  #13
jeffEE
 
jeffEE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: farmingtom, MN
Posts: 1,428
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

If you read the owners book for Saito engines, they recommend up to 30% fuel in their four strokes. So go ahead and use it.
jeffEE is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 07:08 AM
  #14
husafreak
 
husafreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 723
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I probably should add that as a heli flyer I always used to have 30% heli fuel on hand and it was easier for me to just put that in my airplane engines. My Saito 72 burns it and my YS 63 and 110 really like it. The YS engines seem to benefit from the high nitro content more than the Saito. In the last year my only nitro heli has a YS120 which burns Powermaster 20% YS fuel. The Saito 72 runs terrific on that. FYI over the years I have had zero issues with my Saito's. Wish I could say that about my 4 stroke YS's...
husafreak is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 08:35 AM
  #15
Granpooba
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queensbury, NY
Posts: 1,357
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffEE View Post
If you read the owners book for Saito engines, they recommend up to 30% fuel in their four strokes. So go ahead and use it.
Guess my problem is that I have been in this hobby for more years than I care to mention. Can not really admit to reading an Owners Manual lately.

But, word of mouth is good !
Granpooba is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 07:20 PM
  #16
JPMacG
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ivyland, PA
Posts: 2,248
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I have only noticed a problem with high nitro on my Fox and Enya engines. They like 5%.
JPMacG is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 07:27 PM
  #17
jeffie8696
 
jeffie8696's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Muscatine, IA
Posts: 5,280
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

My old Enya 45 baffle port seems a little over compressed and doesn't like any nitro. I need to look into a head shim and probably a colder plug.
jeffie8696 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 04:41 AM
  #18
1QwkSport2.5r
 
1QwkSport2.5r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cottage Grove, MN
Posts: 8,761
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffie8696 View Post
My old Enya 45 baffle port seems a little over compressed and doesn't like any nitro. I need to look into a head shim and probably a colder plug.
If it were me, I'd add a shim or change the plug but not both right off the bat. Some Enyas used to come with 2 heads; 1 high compression and 1 lower compression. I don't know if they did this with the Schnuerle engines only or not though.

I had a hard time getting my ST S90 to run reasonably well on 5% nitro; I ran a few quarts of FAI fuel in it after break-in because it would quit often even with the needle backed off 1000rpm from peak. It tolerates 5% now even with a Jett muffler.

Last edited by 1QwkSport2.5r; 04-21-2014 at 04:42 AM. Reason: Fix wording.
1QwkSport2.5r is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 09:49 AM
  #19
JollyPopper
 
JollyPopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mountain Home, AR
Posts: 2,577
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I guess I would want to ask why? Why would you want to run and engine on 30% fuel if it runs ok on 10% fuel? The difference in cost is significant over time.
JollyPopper is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 12:53 PM
  #20
blw
Moderator
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,174
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

JollyPopper- you can usually pick up a few hundred more rpms by going up to 30%. That's a nice edge for some in competition. Some engines just run smoother with more.
blw is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 04:26 PM
  #21
jeffie8696
 
jeffie8696's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Muscatine, IA
Posts: 5,280
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

My Magnum 52 FS runs much more stable with the 30% and I have a bunch of it.
jeffie8696 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 04:50 PM
  #22
1QwkSport2.5r
 
1QwkSport2.5r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cottage Grove, MN
Posts: 8,761
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I've noted on average 200rpm gains for every 5% nitro I add. Exception is the ST S90 I spoke of; I lost 700rpm on FAI fuel from 5% but that was when it was still barely breaking in. My Enya 4-strokes haven't shown much gain on 10% from 5% other than a wider needle window.
1QwkSport2.5r is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 09:31 AM
  #23
Granpooba
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queensbury, NY
Posts: 1,357
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPopper View Post
I guess I would want to ask why? Why would you want to run and engine on 30% fuel if it runs ok on 10% fuel? The difference in cost is significant over time.
Have read articles and been told that their is an increase in power and an increase in cooling with 30%. Granted the cost is significant. But I have yet to see anybody take their money to the after life. LOL
Granpooba is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 03:29 PM
  #24
JollyPopper
 
JollyPopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mountain Home, AR
Posts: 2,577
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Yes, agreed on the couple hundered RPM increase with 30% and in competition that little edge may make the difference. But in everyday flying can you even see the slight increase in speed that that 200RPM provides? I see airplanesflying at our field and I honestly can't even guess what actual speed they are going.
JollyPopper is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2014, 05:03 PM
  #25
aspeed
 
aspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ruthven, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,839
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

[ But I have yet to see anybody take their money to the after life. LOL] If I can't take it with me, I'm not going! I found 15% gives a bit better idle and acceleration and is generally nicer to run with than 5 or 10%. I don't use after run oil on 10%, but do on anything higher.
aspeed is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:27 AM.