The end of small glow engines
06-30-2014, 02:48 PM
#151
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[QUOTE=fizzwater2;11832837]I've seen some mighty impressive electric airplanes. Large scale planes, pattern planes, etc.
However, they just don't do it for me, in spite of the advancements in electric power since the advent of the LiPo, brushless motors, etc.
And I'm an electrical engineer - maybe after spending all day dabbling in electronic stuff, it just doesn't appeal to me to do more of it for a hobby.
"Nelson" .40 size race engines are still available. Aero Racing engines ( http://aeroracingengines.com/ ) yea thats the place making nelson
However, they just don't do it for me, in spite of the advancements in electric power since the advent of the LiPo, brushless motors, etc.
And I'm an electrical engineer - maybe after spending all day dabbling in electronic stuff, it just doesn't appeal to me to do more of it for a hobby.
"Nelson" .40 size race engines are still available. Aero Racing engines ( http://aeroracingengines.com/ ) yea thats the place making nelson
06-30-2014, 02:54 PM
#152
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F3A probably isn't exctly comparing apples with apples.
Power is secondary to flexibility, and impression. Any manufacture could bring out a nitro 2-stroke that'd rip the front end out of any F3A ship and be lighter than what we have now but it'd lack the flexibility, flyability and in general look and sound bad in the air.
It's horses for courses in this hobby, pick which power source suits the application (be thankfull we have so many options) and run with it.
Power is secondary to flexibility, and impression. Any manufacture could bring out a nitro 2-stroke that'd rip the front end out of any F3A ship and be lighter than what we have now but it'd lack the flexibility, flyability and in general look and sound bad in the air.
It's horses for courses in this hobby, pick which power source suits the application (be thankfull we have so many options) and run with it.
06-30-2014, 03:01 PM
#153
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Yes, Sport Pilot, variable timing on the ignition is possible. CDI is a better solution for that though, as the ignition timing can be precisely controlled. Our glow plug ignitions all are running significantly more advanced than they should be for max power. That is done to give us reliable idles and strong transitions. Axel Al had mentioned in a previous post about variable valve timing for glow engines, which is what I was responding to. You can't have VVT when you don't have any valves.
On the racing engine comment you made, I guess you're talking about the Jett engines and others like them? I have no experience with them so I can't make a comparison, so maybe they do still outrun their electric counterparts. At the same time though, there aren't a whole lot of those engines in use, and the ones that are are very special purpose. Their port timing is so high that they don't really make for a good sport or aerobatics engine. And of course there is the cost of running the nitro amounts that the racers use which is prohibitive for most of us. Jett does also make some higher powered engines for sport and aerobatic use that are excellent, and may very well beat out the electrics for power to weight ratio and overall performance. I'd love to see a head to head test for acceleration, vertical performance, top speed, etc. between the two.
On the racing engine comment you made, I guess you're talking about the Jett engines and others like them? I have no experience with them so I can't make a comparison, so maybe they do still outrun their electric counterparts. At the same time though, there aren't a whole lot of those engines in use, and the ones that are are very special purpose. Their port timing is so high that they don't really make for a good sport or aerobatics engine. And of course there is the cost of running the nitro amounts that the racers use which is prohibitive for most of us. Jett does also make some higher powered engines for sport and aerobatic use that are excellent, and may very well beat out the electrics for power to weight ratio and overall performance. I'd love to see a head to head test for acceleration, vertical performance, top speed, etc. between the two.
06-30-2014, 03:19 PM
#154
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I thought I'd just like to throw these two into the mix.
1. I am about to emigrate to France. the weather's better and the houses (and wine!) are cheaper! The club I will be joining, which has 21 members, staged a round of the French Aerobatic Championship about a year ago. The event attracted the entry of the European Champion, who was a former World Champion, and the current French National Champion among others. All of the models were powered by electric motors.
2. At the British National Championships last year there was a man selling two-stroke model aeroplane engines, which he kept in a big box. The price of these engines was £10 or about $17US, we were invited to help ourselves. Nuff said.
1. I am about to emigrate to France. the weather's better and the houses (and wine!) are cheaper! The club I will be joining, which has 21 members, staged a round of the French Aerobatic Championship about a year ago. The event attracted the entry of the European Champion, who was a former World Champion, and the current French National Champion among others. All of the models were powered by electric motors.
2. At the British National Championships last year there was a man selling two-stroke model aeroplane engines, which he kept in a big box. The price of these engines was £10 or about $17US, we were invited to help ourselves. Nuff said.
06-30-2014, 03:27 PM
#155
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F3A probably isn't exctly comparing apples with apples.
Power is secondary to flexibility, and impression. Any manufacture could bring out a nitro 2-stroke that'd rip the front end out of any F3A ship and be lighter than what we have now but it'd lack the flexibility, flyability and in general look and sound bad in the air.
It's horses for courses in this hobby, pick which power source suits the application (be thankfull we have so many options) and run with it.
Power is secondary to flexibility, and impression. Any manufacture could bring out a nitro 2-stroke that'd rip the front end out of any F3A ship and be lighter than what we have now but it'd lack the flexibility, flyability and in general look and sound bad in the air.
It's horses for courses in this hobby, pick which power source suits the application (be thankfull we have so many options) and run with it.
06-30-2014, 03:39 PM
#156
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I have nothing against nitro engines I still have a couple but technology has moved on. While at one time nitro was the best available to the modeler that time has passed and I doubt there
will be many if any nitro engines available new in the U.S. market in five years. And no I have not seen the new line of Nova Rossi engines I did not know they still had a USA distributor.
will be many if any nitro engines available new in the U.S. market in five years. And no I have not seen the new line of Nova Rossi engines I did not know they still had a USA distributor.
06-30-2014, 04:08 PM
#157
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Yes sir, the name of this post is the end of small glow engines and it is like Winston Churchill said " it is not the end, or the beginning of the end, but the beginning of the beginning of the end" It may depend on what size you consider small. But the current manufactures of glow are, Supertigre, thunderpower, OS, YS, APC, Magnum, JBA, SK, Enya, Mark/Moki, Jett, Rossi, Nelson then Model Engine Company Of America or MECOA makes their brand, Mecoa and Vintage brands, HB, HP, RJL, Fuji, Toki, K&B, etc. These along with the surplus of half a century of manufactured engines out there used and new in the box make it seem impossible that their would ever be and end to the small ones. Then there are the big ones. Let me list the giant glow motos that I have in my collection, the large glow motors. Moki/Mark 2.10cu in, 1.80cu in, Moki inline twin 3.60cu in. Aviastar 2.00 cu in, supertigre 4500 2.75 cu in, Supertigre inline twin60 3.60cu in, Twinstar flat twin 45cc. I just got a new Brission 5.8, 95 cc factory converted to nitro. In giant scale racing they convert the zenoah gt 80cc to alcohol for racing. So there it is, a history of model airplane powerplants. The nasty noisey dangerous thing that has always made a model airplane.........Not a toy
Last edited by Axle Al; 07-02-2014 at 11:53 AM. Reason: word choice
06-30-2014, 08:32 PM
#159
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Overall, I don't see the demise of glow engines anytime soon. There will always be guys who want the noise and the mechanical side of using an IC engine. They will continue to decline, and as they do some brands will go away and lots of product lines will go away. But on these mid sized planes, there will always be a certain joy to be had in making racket and smelling glow exhaust.
06-30-2014, 09:05 PM
#160
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There are plenty of glow motors in use by the everyday members of that French club, including me, but when the expert aerobatic pilots turned up for a competitive event they all chose to use electric motors in their pattern ships.
07-01-2014, 04:12 AM
#162
The pattern rules alway's had a low sound DB requirement. So that puts glow at a disadvantage it might not have in another venue. Still I think thrust and controbablility are the issue not so much power.
07-01-2014, 04:15 AM
#163
No nitro engines hear (well maybe the very few running on more than 50% nitro) this is the glow engine forum. IMO glow with no nitro and low oil requirement may be the future and saviour of glow. This will lower costs greatly, work in small engines, and still have much more power than gas.
07-01-2014, 01:49 PM
#165
There were those that predicted the extinction of 1/2a engines years ago. I don't think so, I'm on my way to the field to fly 1/2a pylon racers with my friends this evening. We consume over 2 gallons of 1/2a fuel per year 1/2 oz at a time!
Last edited by 049flyer; 07-01-2014 at 02:17 PM.
07-01-2014, 05:29 PM
#167
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Order direct from Enya. Fantastic engines and much superior to OS in the smaller sizes (09 to 25) in my opinion. Better fit and finish, great power, flawless idle, plus no plastic backplates. Great parts support as well. I have recently received parts for an old 1960's era Enya .09 engine. No one provides that level of parts support that I know of.
I dusted off a model with an Enya 25 I bought in the early 90's. Bearings were shot, carb gasket dried out and some screws stripped. I wrote to Mr Enya and sure enough in a week I had new parts to re-build my 22 year old engine. Put it together and it screams like it did new.
It is amazing how long one gallon of fuel lasts on a small glow engine
07-01-2014, 07:38 PM
#168
I have little doubt that glow engines may become extinct in 5 years in CALIFORNIA, but in Texas I assure you that they will continue powering model planes for many many years.
There were those that predicted the extinction of 1/2a engines years ago. I don't think so, I'm on my way to the field to fly 1/2a pylon racers with my friends this evening. We consume over 2 gallons of 1/2a fuel per year 1/2 oz at a time!
There were those that predicted the extinction of 1/2a engines years ago. I don't think so, I'm on my way to the field to fly 1/2a pylon racers with my friends this evening. We consume over 2 gallons of 1/2a fuel per year 1/2 oz at a time!
07-02-2014, 12:05 PM
#170
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No nitro engines hear (well maybe the very few running on more than 50% nitro) this is the glow engine forum. IMO glow with no nitro and low oil requirement may be the future and saviour of glow. This will lower costs greatly, work in small engines, and still have much more power than gas.
07-02-2014, 08:04 PM
#171
I just like the sound of the word nitro.
Heard that only china is still manufacturing nitro.
FAI is like the AMA, they regulate the racing stuff over seas
Last edited by Sport_Pilot; 07-02-2014 at 08:08 PM.
07-03-2014, 10:05 AM
#173
07-03-2014, 10:24 AM
#174
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Last I heard, NHRA fuel was 90%. They backed off in order to cut the power of the top fuel engines. I figure they'll cut it again in a few more years because the teams still run through equipment like mad.
07-03-2014, 10:35 AM
#175
I figure they'll cut it again in a few more years because the teams still run through equipment like mad.