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Thunder Tiger Engines

Old 02-24-2015, 04:55 PM
  #51  
vertical grimmace
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Originally Posted by H5606
Yeah, what's going to happen here? I just can't see a gasoline engine, it's ignition system and additional battery used in Q-500s and turning a 9x6 at 15-16 grand. Likewise for electrics, what fun is there in moving the throttle switch to the "on" position to start your motor.
Not having spoken with anyone about pylon since the Nats, I am guessing the new 426 class is the focus. Also the newer electric Formula 1 class may be the new beginner class. Too bad, because the 424 was a good speed and great for entry level. The 426 seem like they are still very fast. Close to what 428 was with the Nelson.

One of the problems that pylon will have, is that these classes depend on commercially available engines. This is becoming an issue. I wonder how much longer Jett will continue? And the Nelson engines being produced are of no use with 428 Q-500 going away. That just leaves the Q 40 engine from the Nelson clone producer. That is a really narrow market.

Although, at the NAtionals this last year, there were a ton of entries. In the 90's if I remember correctly.

Last edited by vertical grimmace; 02-24-2015 at 05:01 PM.
Old 02-24-2015, 06:09 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace
Not having spoken with anyone about pylon since the Nats, I am guessing the new 426 class is the focus. Also the newer electric Formula 1 class may be the new beginner class. Too bad, because the 424 was a good speed and great for entry level. The 426 seem like they are still very fast. Close to what 428 was with the Nelson.

One of the problems that pylon will have, is that these classes depend on commercially available engines. This is becoming an issue. I wonder how much longer Jett will continue? And the Nelson engines being produced are of no use with 428 Q-500 going away. That just leaves the Q 40 engine from the Nelson clone producer. That is a really narrow market.

Although, at the NAtionals this last year, there were a ton of entries. In the 90's if I remember correctly.
Thanks for that info. It just seems like not too long ago, 424 people were upset about the pause in production of the .40 and pleaded with Thunder Tiger to continue making it to support their cause.
Old 02-24-2015, 10:14 PM
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Vertical Grimmace. I'm not exactly certain of what you are trying to say when you refer Q-40 engine from the Nelson clone producer? Michael Langlois is continuing to produce the same, or better quality product with 100% blessing of Henry Nelson, and to be exact, it is a joint venture, as Henry has been making some parts, and Michael the rest, and assembling the engines. At every race held at the Old Julian Airport model field, Michael has opened his machine shop to any and all visitors, and at the Q-40 Championship race two years ago, the Saturday night banquet was at his shop. In fact Dub Jett was in attendance. There are a few minor differences in the Aeroprecision long stroke engine, from what Henry last produced, but they were all part of the collaboration between Henry, and Michael. I'm just saying that I wouldn't consider the term "clone' to be an appropriate description of the current Nelson Q-40 engine. I might add too, that the model airplane engines are only a small portion of Michael whole business, so it is somewhat more of a labor of love, then a get rich endeavor. Greg
Old 02-24-2015, 10:36 PM
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I did not mean to slight Michael's endeavor, and applaud the fact that he is continuing Henry's work. I love Nelson engines, and I wish the full line were still available. I have had the N36 combat engine and an SS Q 40. Sorry for the use of the word clone. It is just what came to mind to describe them. I am not fully up to speed on the deal they have or had worked out on the continued production. This is somewhat off point.

The point is, that the engines are disappearing. And then rules and event changes effect the equipment we need as well. So even though the LS Q500 40 is still available, 426 makes the production useless, as those engines are really only good for racing. I always loved flying 424, and I am sure another .40 sized sport engine could be found, but what an interesting time it is, to have scrounge around to find a commonly produced .40 engine.
Old 02-25-2015, 09:13 AM
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Thanks for the clarification on your comments, and I pretty much agree with what you are saying about the availability of inexpensive engines for the entry level racing events. Soon all of us "gear heads" will be in nursing homes any way, so the electric gang can race on their hand held electronic devices, to their hearts content.
Old 02-25-2015, 09:34 AM
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Well back to the original, "what happened to thunder tiger?'' it don't look good does it , they make a big announcement about how great leaving hobbico and hooking up with hrp, here it is the end of February and no sign of any engines or support????What are the rules as far as engines go for that class of racing?
Old 02-25-2015, 09:47 AM
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I have a couple of Fox 45's. They have been very reliable year after year.
Old 02-25-2015, 10:08 AM
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I noticed on Tower that they seem to be winding down all the Foxproducts including plugs, spinner nuts, reamers, etc. I might be wrong butthat's what it looks like to me. If Fox is getting completely out to focus onhigher profit business, it's a shame for us hobbyists. It's all a symptom ofthe changing RC industry. Cheap Chinese engines have just about killed otherengine manufacturers and cheap ARF's have destroyed and set back the hobby forkit builders. You have to look harder to find new kits and go to Ebay, swapmeets or estate sales. I'll be shocked if we'll still be able to buy iron oncovering on a roll or at least have a good selection because kit building is so down and a lot of people can'tfix their planes so they discard them. They never learned to build so theycan't repair or cover. For those of us left who still want to build, I betwe'll have to go back to the "stone age" and scratch build fromplans and cover with old fashioned tissue and silk. Model dope may not even beavailable much longer either. Brodak still carries it and Sig has some but youalready see people trying to paint with Rustoleum and such. On top of allthis, we still have an economy sputtering along where 30 hours/week is the newfull time for a lot of people and wages are fairly stagnant. Have to rememberthat this is a leisure hobby industry that depends on people's disposableincome and a lot of us just don't have it like we used to so a lot of people have to buy the Chinese stuff or just not be in the hobby. And, if that's notenough doom and gloom, electric is taking over along with small gasolineengines and a lot of people are flying large scale that use large gas engines.Pretty soon, anything that used to take a 1.0 size or smaller glow engine willbe electric. I'm afraid that kit building as we knew it and glow engines are going away and even OS will be impacted at some point.
Old 02-25-2015, 12:44 PM
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Just to show you how much the industry has changed, how many model airplane books are in your local library? I remember in the 1970's, that even the small public libraries would have at least one or two model airplane magazines on the rack. There would be a section of books in the 629.133 section. Standards were Keith Laumer and Walt Musciano how to design, build and fly books. Bookstores and magazine shops would have model airplane magazines and some books.Recently I went to a small community library, there was nada, zilch.

Typically, feedback I get from those with grandchildren is they'd rather be messing on line with their tablets and smart phones rather than go out and learn to fly.

Regarding "pretty soon", attempting to find a 1.0 cc (0.061 c.i.) or smaller airplane kit is getting tougher. Some are modifying electric kits in order to fly glow.
Old 02-25-2015, 12:54 PM
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Hey guys, I talked to a guy at Radical RC yesterday and he said that Thunder Tiger was going to be distributed through HRP and that he would be carrying all the Thunder Tiger line , But it would be a couple months. The strike on the West Coast will be over and he would have everything. So let's let Tower go play their little electric game and we will stay with our glow Engines ,and when it comes time to buy stuff we go somewhere else. It's that simple.
Old 02-25-2015, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GallopingGhostler
Just to show you how much the industry has changed, how many model airplane books are in your local library? I remember in the 1970's, that even the small public libraries would have at least one or two model airplane magazines on the rack. There would be a section of books in the 629.133 section. Standards were Keith Laumer and Walt Musciano how to design, build and fly books. Bookstores and magazine shops would have model airplane magazines and some books.Recently I went to a small community library, there was nada, zilch.

Typically, feedback I get from those with grandchildren is they'd rather be messing on line with their tablets and smart phones rather than go out and learn to fly.

Regarding "pretty soon", attempting to find a 1.0 cc (0.061 c.i.) or smaller airplane kit is getting tougher. Some are modifying electric kits in order to fly glow.
Who goes to the library anymore? Used to be dozens of people there. Last time I was at the library there was one other person. Now everybody gets their info on the web. And soon the Feds will regulate that.
Old 02-25-2015, 02:54 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Who goes to the library anymore? Used to be dozens of people there. Last time I was at the library there was one other person. Now everybody gets their info on the web. And soon the Feds will regulate that.
Those airplane books got lost when they abandoned the Dewey decimal system! lol

I just wish I could get a hold of another one of those TT .36 pro engines. I have one, and love it. I think it was discontinued a while ago. Ran that thing with a 1/4 wave pipe and an 8x8 apc, could get almost 19,000 out of it. Good for the little racer I had it on.
Old 02-25-2015, 04:05 PM
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About a year ago, I was in our small town library and saw they still had some books but the newest was published in the 80's. Our local hobby shops carry magazines where sometimes they have construction articles but most of it has to do with ARF's (Almost Ready to Fix). Tried to get my youngest son into it. He learned to take off and make basic turns and loops but the interest just wasn't there. He would have had to go more often to get good enough to land. Tried getting him to build a small Guillows rubber job but again no interest. Instead, he likes RC trucks and has a nitro one from Associated. He's learned to start and adjust it and some basic mechanical maintenance. At least he found his nich. Other than RC trucks, he plays video games and such like others his age.
Old 02-25-2015, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace
Those airplane books got lost when they abandoned the Dewey decimal system! lol
I guesss that going to the library is asking too much! Seems less and less people these days can read!
Old 02-25-2015, 04:19 PM
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I saw where Sport Pilot called Fox today and posted on the Fox thread that they won't be making engines any time soon unless demand improves. I thought it was worth noting that the lady he spoke with said they were aware of other engine makers cutting back too or not making any. I guess it goes back to what we were saying about electric and gas (big and small) taking over. I think you can get gas versions down to .46 size now but pricey. But again, they're still competing with electric and electric motors have really come down in price. I'm hard headed and stubborn so I still like my glow engines.
Old 02-25-2015, 04:47 PM
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Well, if they could come up with a reliable plug and carburetor that will work with gasoline, then they may be able to maintain some market share. I mean for .60 size and below in displacement. I am not stuck on using glow fuel, but will always have a desire to run smaller engines. The other issue, is gasoline mixes typically use less oil. But the bigger engines have ball bearing on the con rods etc. So any small gas engine will need rich oil mixes.
Old 02-25-2015, 10:32 PM
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There is of course another reason why fewer glow engines are being produced in addition to petrol engines squeezing glows from the top and electric motors doing the same with the smaller sizes, the greying of the hobby, i.e. glow engine aficionados are literally dying out! If my club is anything to go by, the younger element, and I'm talking married men here with full-time jobs in their thirties or forties, fly big mostly petrols or electric motors of varying sizes right up to 1/4 scale aerobatic models which require batteries as big as house-bricks. The only man in this age range who flies a glow-powered model is returning to the hobby after a break of about twenty-five years. Curiously enough, he has a very impressive Thunder Tiger Pro 46 in a WOT 4.

As for younger fliers, out of eighty members, AFAIK we have one member who is in his teens and he is an electric flier, mostly quadcopters. Other members have sons of that age and have even built or bought trainers for them, but the lads are not interested. I don't think we have any members in their twenties. Mind you, I'd lost interest in model aeroplanes when I was in my twenties!

So there we are. Fewer glow engines will be produced but more good second hand ones will become available as we all die off! Lol as young people say!

PS. It looks like my house sale is going through so I'm beginning the process of putting all of my i/c models into store prior to moving to France. I will just take electric stuff with me at first. I flew the STM for the last time in England yesterday. This morning I will start up its Thunder Tiger 91, oil the engine and put it into store.

Last edited by Telemaster Sales UK; 02-25-2015 at 10:42 PM.
Old 02-26-2015, 07:53 AM
  #68  
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1969 saw the first man on the moon through Apollo 11. That increased fascination with rocket flight, and a model rocket industry took off. In high school in the early 1970's, I built and flew my share of model rockets. Then motors could be obtained by mail and were very reasonably priced, they were not considered hazardous materials packed several to a mailing tube.

1927, Charles Lindbergh solo flew the Ryan Spirit of Saint Louis across the Atlantic, which then was as spectacular a news as the first space flights and lunar landing. This and developments in aviation helped to kick off model airplane building and flying. This IMO helped to fuel the world's love of free flight aircraft and introduction of small ignition engines helped to further spark love of model aviation to those who could afford.

Advent of and expansion of jet commercial and military flight helped to spark a love affair with modeling jet like aircraft. Carl Goldberg's 1962 Falcon 56 trainer was a sensation as it had jet like looks and could accomodate many different engine and radio configurations. Other manufacturers used similar themes with their aircraft and offered counterparts in both shoulder wing and low wing.

Advent of the color television and affordability in the latter 1960's helped to glue many a child to TV programming. Record players gave way to the portable cassette, which became practical in the 1970's, nowing allowing kids to carry their tunes with them, along with portable transistor radios of the 1960's and on.

Today it is the Internet and portable video graphic interactive gaming through the Internet that enthralls kids.

Overall, it is the interests of people overall that have changed, and aviation modelers have become a smaller minority. Watching an airplane fly still enthralls me as it did in the early 1960's. Overall I guess it is what we grew up with that attracts us.
Old 02-26-2015, 01:08 PM
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As the market for two-stroke glow engines softened, manufacturers realized that there are many profitable uses for their equipment. Fox does some defense contracting, as well as large private contracts. MECOA is the same way. When you have millions of dollars tied up in CNC mills and lathes, you prefer to see those machines making money.
Old 02-26-2015, 01:28 PM
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Even Hobby People is only showing five Magnum 2-strokes: 61 (OOS), 53,46,25, and 15.
Old 02-26-2015, 02:51 PM
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ASP's are being sold by Hobby King. They sell OS and Cox too.
They claim to have all models listed in stock.
Nitroplanes lists many many ASP's, but only 3 are NOT tagged "Out of Stock"
Many of those are gone for good (the .09 for example...)
I have not seen SuperTigre mentioned yet...but "Order Pending" on all....
Dave
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...w_Engines.html
http://www.nitroplanes.com/asp.html?...FQaLaQodmBsA-w
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...SM&C=GCE&V=SUP

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Old 02-26-2015, 02:56 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Stikum
As the market for two-stroke glow engines softened, manufacturers realized that there are many profitable uses for their equipment. Fox does some defense contracting, as well as large private contracts. MECOA is the same way. When you have millions of dollars tied up in CNC mills and lathes, you prefer to see those machines making money.
I think it is that way anywhere you go. Wasn't it Norvel that decided other work was more profitable moved on, so there was a lapse there of a few years, until someone else started making them again? Used to be carried by even Hobbico (Tower Hobbies and Omni Models).

One day I showed up at the flying field with plane powered by an Enya 09-III TV and Tatone 09-19 Peace Pipe muffler. One of the modelers asked me, what engine is that? I brought to life a piece of history to the field.
Old 04-08-2015, 09:19 PM
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Some good news on Thunder Tiger !! I was informed that HRP is expecting 2 truckloads of stuff next week. They have been hush on specifics but I hope as you do that some glow engines will have found their way on to one of the loads.
Old 04-08-2015, 10:25 PM
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Someone has left an ARTF WOT 4 fitted with a Thunder Tiger GP 42 in the club house for over a year. I got permission from the club secretary to fit a receiver and battery and to test fly it. I flew it yesterday. There was considerable faffing about trying to get the engine to run properly. I removed the cowling and the fault was obvious. The air bleed hole on the carburettor was blocked. With that sorted out with a pin, the engine ran faultlessly and the model was a delight to fly. I believe that an email will be sent out to the membership to see if anybody claims the model. If not it will be sold on for club funds.

By way of comparison I took my own kit-built WOT 4 along as well. It was not an exact comparison as the ARTF has the parallel-chord wing and my model is the Mark 3 version with a tapered wing; it is powered by a Thunder Tiger 54 four-stroke. I found the ARTF to be marginally easier to fly.

Pictures attached. The ARTF is the white model.

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Old 04-09-2015, 03:40 PM
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I consider the GP42 one of the best kept secrets in model aviation

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