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Why I'm going back to glow

Old 09-05-2015, 10:11 AM
  #101  
sarpet
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Originally Posted by 1QwkSport2.5r
Those European oils are really good but horribly expensive in the U.S. To the tune of about $80/gal for Motul Micro. If we could get that stuff cheaper, we'd all use that.
Ithink that motul micron is about 20-30€/1l and its very hard to get it anywhere.
Last time i order modeltechnics klotz and castor oil from poland.
Old 09-05-2015, 10:17 AM
  #102  
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(If they had a fuel cell instead of batteries I would change to electric, maybe.) Maybe a CO2 motor is the answer. You never hear about those any more. Compressed air? They use very little oil. Maybe an old 4 stroke motor could be converted.

Last edited by aspeed; 09-05-2015 at 10:20 AM.
Old 09-05-2015, 10:23 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
I rarely burned out a glow plug, if I did that glow plug was probably 5 years old or more. The fuel smells like perfume and gas stinks. I love tinkering on engines, I rarely have to take it apart, but relish the work when I do. If you use pump gas the engine go to s@#$. So you have to pay more and it costs $5 mixed. Only a buck or two more to mix glow and a lot more power and no stink.

I have never had a gas engines, but I have more trouble with my gas edgers, trimmers, and blowers than I ever have with my glow engines so I do not care to try one.

Go to the gas forum if you are going to dis glow engines, you won't find many on your side here.
For starters...If this was directed towards my post...I'm sorry if I ruffled your feathers...I did not search for this thread in Glow...It was on the front page and I clicked on it because of the OP's thread title. There is and will always be a difference of opinions...step outside the box.
As far as comparing weed eaters and edgers with small gas engines in our models we are comparing apples to oranges in a sense...I too have the same issues with my darn lawn equipment but I do think a lot of it starts with the crappy fuel lines and the way we abuse and store our yard tools...I know mine are rode hard and put away wet!! Besides ...the quality of a DA, Zenoah, etc...are second to none.

As far as maintenance on a airplane gasser all I need to do every three to five years is replace the fuel lines and throw a $6-7 dollar carb kit in.

I must be strange as I personally feel that NITRO engines stink to high cotton. My gassers don't stink to me? I keep all my planes in a air conditioned hobby room and the gassers never smell to me? I must be strange tho because most posters here feel that Nitro smells better. Regardless...I love them all ...but especially gassers. Nitro's really have a home in the smaller plane area...and a gasser pound for pound and especially performance cannot compete...Nitro is the clear winner for that smaller sized plane for sure. Even If we could find a comparable weight and sized bird to compare...The NITRO would smoke the gasser in performance of equal size/weight aircraft.
Old 09-05-2015, 11:43 AM
  #104  
1QwkSport2.5r
 
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Originally Posted by särpet
Ithink that motul micron is about 20-30€/1l and its very hard to get it anywhere.
Last time i order modeltechnics klotz and castor oil from poland.
There are companies here in the states that import it. It's easy enough to get, just expensive. Aerosave and such are available too.
Old 09-06-2015, 11:37 AM
  #105  
sarpet
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Originally Posted by 1QwkSport2.5r
There are companies here in the states that import it. It's easy enough to get, just expensive. Aerosave and such are available too.
Yes but ordering is very expensive out of eu area.
Oil price+cargo+2-3%toll x 24% vat= oil price when iget it on my hands.
Old 09-06-2015, 01:40 PM
  #106  
drac1
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Originally Posted by särpet
Yes but ordering is very expensive out of eu area.
Oil price+cargo+2-3%toll x 24% vat= oil price when iget it on my hands.
VAT isn't charged for orders outside of Europe.
Old 09-06-2015, 09:06 PM
  #107  
sarpet
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Originally Posted by drac1
VAT isn't charged for orders outside of Europe.
Finland hell yes, everything is very expensive.
Ihave to go buy fuel my car in russia, because its .60€/l and finland 1.5€/l.
Old 09-06-2015, 09:24 PM
  #108  
drac1
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Originally Posted by särpet
Finland hell yes, everything is very expensive.
Ihave to go buy fuel my car in russia, because its .60€/l and finland 1.5€/l.
Finland is a part of Europe?
Old 09-09-2015, 05:51 PM
  #109  
psgugrad
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
It will be greater because thrust is to the square of the change in velocity. The formula is F = .5 * r * A * [Ve ^2 - V0 ^2] where Ve is the air velocity downstream of the prop and V0 is the velocity upstream of the the prop. However there is a loss from drag on the prop to the square of the surface area of the prop, but the latter is a smaller number.
I'm afraid you've lost me here...I'm not familiar with any of what you're referring to. I don't understand how a formula can measure thrust. (not saying it can't...I just don's see how) Measuring thrust would seem to require a thrust testing apparatus that physically measures pull. Otherwise, how would one take into account air density differences arising from different temperatures, humidity levels and altitude? Also, the material of the prop will matter as a propeller looses a bit of it's pitch as rpms increase...especially at the tips...due to centrifugal force. Thererfore, , are we talking a nylon, wood, or carbon fiber prop, as the prop material's rigidity will affect how much pitch is lost at elevated rpm? What is the shape of the cross-section of the prop? The shape of the blades? These factors, prop pitch, diameter, blade area, and rpm being equal, will affect how much thrust is being generated.

Last edited by psgugrad; 09-09-2015 at 05:57 PM.
Old 09-09-2015, 06:19 PM
  #110  
drac1
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Originally Posted by psgugrad
I'm afraid you've lost me here...I'm not familiar with any of what you're referring to. I don't understand how a formula can measure thrust. (not saying it can't...I just don's see how) Measuring thrust would seem to require a thrust testing apparatus that physically measures pull. Otherwise, how would one take into account air density differences arising from different temperatures, humidity levels and altitude? Also, the material of the prop will matter as a propeller looses a bit of it's pitch as rpms increase...especially at the tips...due to centrifugal force. Thererfore, , are we talking a nylon, wood, or carbon fiber prop, as the prop material's rigidity will affect how much pitch is lost at elevated rpm? What is the shape of the cross-section of the prop? The shape of the blades? These factors, prop pitch, diameter, blade area, and rpm being equal, will affect how much thrust is being generated.
I don't fully understand either, (and not really that interested), in how to measure using formulas, but it can be done. Everything can be measured/calculated these days, without actually having to make/build or physically set up something to find out how it will perform. Pretty much any variable can be allowed for in the calculations to simulate different scenarios.

I still think that performance in the real world may be slightly different, but calculating first puts it right in the ball park without the expense and time involved in manually doing it.

As many of us have found in the past, theory is all well and good, but how something performs in the real world will be the final test.
Old 09-10-2015, 11:17 AM
  #111  
CLBetten
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In the glow fuel issue, I did some research and made several phone calls and enquiries A few months ago. I found every manufacturer that revealed formulas only used 1% castor in their synthetic castor blends. None would give an exact description of their synthetic oils. Then I checked out Sig. I used to buy it at my LHS but they dropped Sig a few years ago. Sig is straightforward about their ingredients and contains more castor in their blends. I ordered some 1/2 A 35% nitro 25% castor and some 10% nitro 20% synth/castor blend. The blend clearly states 20% total oil, 10% castor, 10% Klotz. My LHS gets it for me for $19 per gallon. My engines run amazingly well and I have no doubts what I'm getting when I buy it.
Old 09-10-2015, 02:41 PM
  #112  
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Omega is 17-18% oil and a 70/30 blend of synthetic/castor. That part is on the bottles. Omega at my local shop is $26/gallon and SIG champion is $10/qt.

I really liked SIG fuel too but it's too expensive at the LHS and just as expensive to ship it to my house, so mixing my own makes the most sense.
Old 09-12-2015, 05:26 AM
  #113  
philfun
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Originally Posted by psgugrad
About 4 years ago, I got hot for a gasser and bought a DLE 20 for my Four Star 120. It was for the usual reasons like being cheaper to run, less slop on the plane and you can put the fuel tank on the CG. Plus, it ran better than most of my glow engines.

Then, about 2 years ago I started researching mixing my own glow fuel and discovered a few interesting things. First and foremost, there is no need to be paying $20+/gallon for glow fuel at the hobby shop. I found a place near me where I can buy Methanol for $4/gallon. There were other places not near me selling it for considerably less. Then, I found a place where I can get (real) castor for $27/gallon delivered. Finally, I read where glow engines don't really need any nitro and that if you're using real castor oil, 12% oil is plenty and that larger engines can even go as low as 10% oil content if real castor oil is used

I mixed up a gallon of my own and I was shocked at how much better my engines ran. First, they started easier and didn't load up when idling. Transition was much better and, despite the lack of nitro, the engines made the same or even a little more power. Also, there was less slop on the plane. Icing on the cake is that the mix is under $7/gallon

I think the reason for the better performance was the fact that I was using less oil. The thinner fuel seemed to eliminate issues of loading up, transition, or fuel starvation with the nose pointed up. The difference was even more pronounced in cooler weather. I had always thought that glow engines needed 18-20% oil to be protected, but the reason the manufacturers specify this is because they have no idea what type of oil you're going to be using and real castor has far higher film strength than synthetics. The weak link in a glow engine, lubrication-wise, is the bottom of the connecting rod and 12% real castor is plenty to protect the bottom of the connecting rod. One of my engines, an ASP .46 has a lot of time now on this thinner, 0%-nitro blend and has never run better. There have also been no issues with the engine gumming up or getting coated with brown varnish.

When switching to this 0% fuel the only thing I changed was to a hotter plug. I also found that fuel consumption went down by about 15% since I'm not just sucking down a bunch of nitro plus a huge amount of oil that isn't adding any power...just making a mess of my plane.

I'd be curious to hear from other flyers from around the world who mix their own fuel and listen to their two cents worth.

PS: I almost forgot, no gasser has that wonderful smell of burning castor! (plus my basement no longer stinks)
Hello,
Great statement.With what glow engine have you replaced the DL 20 ?
Do you believe a 1.20 four stroke would replace a 20cc gas ?
Thanks
Old 09-14-2015, 07:49 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by AeroFinn
I think your problem is that you are so used to inexpensive prices on most products As everything is expensive in Europe we don't think of prices that much, I guess..
No, the cheaper price isn't a problem Aerofinn Seriously, your point is taken with the expense. Oil and fuel has always been expensive in most countries in Europe for some reason. Of course, we have our too-expensive things over here too.

Originally Posted by särpet
Finland hell yes, everything is very expensive.
Ihave to go buy fuel my car in russia, because its .60€/l and finland 1.5€/l.
Wow, I've never heard that before. That is a big savings. Thanks for the info.
Old 09-14-2015, 02:56 PM
  #115  
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Fuel prices in Europe have always been a political problem. There is a huge tax on gasoline and most other sources of energy.
In Germany, I paid a tax on the engine size (which gets multiplied by a emission class factor) in addition to the outrageous fuel tax. Not to mention the 19% sales tax which adds a lot to vehicle prices.

I remember Finland was even more expensive. Girls are cute there, so it's worth it, haha.

Last edited by blw; 09-15-2015 at 06:29 AM.
Old 09-17-2015, 09:26 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by drac1
I don't fully understand either, (and not really that interested), in how to measure using formulas, but it can be done. Everything can be measured/calculated these days, without actually having to make/build or physically set up something to find out how it will perform. Pretty much any variable can be allowed for in the calculations to simulate different scenarios.

I still think that performance in the real world may be slightly different, but calculating first puts it right in the ball park without the expense and time involved in manually doing it.

As many of us have found in the past, theory is all well and good, but how something performs in the real world will be the final test.
You cannot measure anything with a formula. You calculate the answer. That is basically a close estimate for design purpose. Formula's are also used to show how things work. You cannot do a good design if you don't understand the formula.
Old 09-19-2015, 06:11 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by BobbyMcGee
This is why I never left glow ...



Too many people are losing their homes and garages due to lipo batteries.
Yeah, well, look closer. The charger is hooked up with jumper cables to a car battery; right next to a rack holding cans of spray paint. That tells me the owner of that home/arrangement isn't the brightest bulb on the tree.

I'm not minimizing the potential dangers of lipo batteries; they certainly are real, and lie in wait to ambush the slow, the stupid, and those who don't pay attention to detail. Most higher-end modern chargers have safeguard circuits in place that simply won't allow you to make a connection error; they cannot prevent a fire due to a bad (shorted) battery stick or a wonky power connection.

IOW, don't re-use a crashed battery; don't use a Rube Goldberg power connection when you're at home; and don't charge your stuff around anything combustible.

Sorry, Bobby, not ranting at you; just at the increasing number of people in our hobby who should have stuck to computer games. But they are hurting themselves, others, destroying property, and giving all of us a bad name in general.

I flew glow and gas from 1986 to 2013. Then I went all-in with electrics. The learning curve should be steeper than it is; all this plug'n'play stuff makes it too easy for a total idiot to participate. I bought a good charger, good batteries, and paid a bit more for Horizon and Tower stuff, and haven't had the first issue in two years and a half-dozen models/power systems.

Interestingly enough, I recently experienced a re-kindled interest in glow. I spent most of the past week re-juvenating ti two glow models I kept; they have been sitting on a wall rack for two years. I ordered another glow ARF, and might even jump back on the two glow-powered kits I have half built and hanging on the wall.

I am not abandoning e-power, by any means. Once you figure out how to operate, its actually a lot less hassle than either glow or gasoline. But I miss the noise and the way the larger planes handle. You can get larger e-ships… just be prepared to mortgage your grandchildren to pay for the batteries. Once you get above 4S, you're talking real money; the cost increases exponentially with 5S and 6S cells. And proper chargers for them are a lot more expensive, too.

Anyway… sorry for the thread drift. I found the assertion that nitro was only intended for engine tuning rather amusing. As someone else pointed out… the drag racer dudes don't use it for that, I'm reasonably certain...

.
Old 09-20-2015, 05:25 AM
  #118  
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The rest of his shop is probably equally as interesting.
Old 09-20-2015, 04:47 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
You cannot measure anything with a formula. You calculate the answer. That is basically a close estimate for design purpose. Formula's are also used to show how things work. You cannot do a good design if you don't understand the formula.
Hmm. That's what I said.
Old 09-20-2015, 07:26 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by drac1
Hmm. That's what I said.
You also said.

I don't fully understand either, (and not really that interested), in how to measure using formulas, but it can be done.
You cannot measure with formula's. It is not the same thing.
Old 09-20-2015, 07:29 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
You also said.



You cannot measure with formula's. It is not the same thing.
You are just being pedantic and argumentative.

Pretty sure most would have got the general meaning of what I said.
Old 12-15-2015, 03:11 PM
  #122  
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you can also use armorall . like used on cars .
Old 09-05-2017, 07:32 AM
  #123  
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Thumbs up Amen......

Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
A good thing about glow is there are no ignition modules, no worry about a spark to ignite leaking fuel. Not to mention more power for the same sized engine.

Being able to replace your entire ignition system in less than a minute......priceless.....
Old 09-05-2017, 07:37 AM
  #124  
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Glow and Lipo are the only ways I go

I like simple.
Old 09-05-2017, 08:50 PM
  #125  
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Being able to replace your entire ignition system in less than a minute......priceless.....
you can also change your Spark Timing in that time

Jim

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