Is Cool Power All Synthetic really any cleaner than fuel with Castor oil in it?
02-11-2016, 11:03 AM
#104
02-11-2016, 04:04 PM
#105
Senior Member
I have never seen pink Cool Power, even their 4 cycle blend with castor is green. OK I did a search and found some Cool Power thats pink but it says "Totally Synthetic".
Last edited by jeffie8696; 02-11-2016 at 04:08 PM.
02-11-2016, 08:57 PM
#107
Senior Member
I have limited experience with Morgans fuels except for some bench running. I found Cool Power to give a very wide needle and Omega was very good fuel but I prefer one with a little more oil content. I have even been known to use full castor fuel at 20% oil.
02-12-2016, 09:18 PM
#108
My Feedback: (66)
I think its funny how someone thinks because they have to lean the needle more on no nitro that it make more heat in an engine lol That is some funny stuff right there. Your turn the needle to find best power. If you have to turn the needle in on no nitro then add a little nitro you add a little more oxygen to the mix so you have to open the needle some to allow more fuel so you don't heat it up.
Turning the needle in more when you switched from 20% nitro to zero percent nitro and think it runs hotter lol still laughing. Now if you had an engine with very low compression and switched to a no nitro fuel and had to lean the needle so much to get it to run good you could add more heat to the engine because you cut the fuel and oil to the engine providing less cooling from the oil and fuel so i could see how someone could come to the conclusion that turning the needle in makes the engine run hotter.
Turning the needle in more when you switched from 20% nitro to zero percent nitro and think it runs hotter lol still laughing. Now if you had an engine with very low compression and switched to a no nitro fuel and had to lean the needle so much to get it to run good you could add more heat to the engine because you cut the fuel and oil to the engine providing less cooling from the oil and fuel so i could see how someone could come to the conclusion that turning the needle in makes the engine run hotter.
02-12-2016, 11:18 PM
#109
I think its funny how someone thinks because they have to lean the needle more on no nitro that it make more heat in an engine lol That is some funny stuff right there. Your turn the needle to find best power. If you have to turn the needle in on no nitro then add a little nitro you add a little more oxygen to the mix so you have to open the needle some to allow more fuel so you don't heat it up.
Turning the needle in more when you switched from 20% nitro to zero percent nitro and think it runs hotter lol still laughing. Now if you had an engine with very low compression and switched to a no nitro fuel and had to lean the needle so much to get it to run good you could add more heat to the engine because you cut the fuel and oil to the engine providing less cooling from the oil and fuel so i could see how someone could come to the conclusion that turning the needle in makes the engine run hotter.
Turning the needle in more when you switched from 20% nitro to zero percent nitro and think it runs hotter lol still laughing. Now if you had an engine with very low compression and switched to a no nitro fuel and had to lean the needle so much to get it to run good you could add more heat to the engine because you cut the fuel and oil to the engine providing less cooling from the oil and fuel so i could see how someone could come to the conclusion that turning the needle in makes the engine run hotter.
Thats what I take away from the research that I've done. I encourage you or anyone else to post scientific data showing I'm wrong and I'll happily admit I'm wrong.
Last edited by 1QwkSport2.5r; 02-12-2016 at 11:21 PM.
02-13-2016, 02:22 AM
#110
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Different parts of the engine get different treatment from the fuel.
With methanol in large four stroke you have problems with heat differentials, the head and parts of the crank case get very cold, but the pistons gets extremely hot.
In a two stroke the piston gets cooled of by the fuel in the crank case, especially if there are by-pass ports.
Energy is one thing, but time is another, different fuels burn at a different rate and are more or less sensitive to a perfect needle setting.
Methanol has a very wide ratio and are forgiving for a not so perfect mixture.
Gasoline not so much, or the forums wouldn't be filled with threads about small gasoline engines that wont run perfect.
With methanol in large four stroke you have problems with heat differentials, the head and parts of the crank case get very cold, but the pistons gets extremely hot.
In a two stroke the piston gets cooled of by the fuel in the crank case, especially if there are by-pass ports.
Energy is one thing, but time is another, different fuels burn at a different rate and are more or less sensitive to a perfect needle setting.
Methanol has a very wide ratio and are forgiving for a not so perfect mixture.
Gasoline not so much, or the forums wouldn't be filled with threads about small gasoline engines that wont run perfect.
02-13-2016, 03:41 AM
#111
Methanol and nitromethane have low levels of thermal energy per unit when compared to fuels like gasoline and diesel. It stands to reason that a fuel with less thermal energy in it burns cooler than a fuel with more thermal energy. Gasoline has about 18,500btu/lb of fuel, methanol about 9,500btu/lb, and nitromethane about 5,000btu/lb. Its common knowledge that gasoline burning engines have higher combustion temperatures. Why? Because there's more thermal energy in the fuel. Take a methanol engine burning two different fuels - one with half as much thermal energy (pure methanol) as gasoline and the other with 20-30% (approx) less (methanol with nitro added) thermal energy than that. Nitro adds power, but I don't see any evidence showing it burning hotter (having more thermal energy) than methanol fuel straight up. To add... Methanol burns slow, adding nitro makes it burn even slower... In some cases, the fuel is still burning when it leaves the combustion chamber. This would also add creedance to nitro laden fuel burning a bit cooler than straight methanol fuel since combustion is possibly incomplete when using nitro. Of course this would depend on the engine.
Thats what I take away from the research that I've done. I encourage you or anyone else to post scientific data showing I'm wrong and I'll happily admit I'm wrong.
Thats what I take away from the research that I've done. I encourage you or anyone else to post scientific data showing I'm wrong and I'll happily admit I'm wrong.
How is it possible that you actually beleive this crap? Adding Nitro make for a slower combustion? I think you should actually get some experience running an engine with 50% nitro before making even more ridiculous comments like that. Scientific data? How about listening to the guys that have been running high nitro for years in the real world or do you really need some PHD in a lab someplace to tell you before you get a clue?
a slower burn would not require a drop in compression ratio to run high nitro. I think you are mixing up nitro content with octane rating.
02-13-2016, 04:47 AM
#112
Methanol and nitromethane have low levels of thermal energy per unit when compared to fuels like gasoline and diesel. It stands to reason that a fuel with less thermal energy in it burns cooler than a fuel with more thermal energy. Gasoline has about 18,500btu/lb of fuel, methanol about 9,500btu/lb, and nitromethane about 5,000btu/lb. Its common knowledge that gasoline burning engines have higher combustion temperatures. Why? Because there's more thermal energy in the fuel. Take a methanol engine burning two different fuels - one with half as much thermal energy (pure methanol) as gasoline and the other with 20-30% (approx) less (methanol with nitro added) thermal energy than that. Nitro adds power, but I don't see any evidence showing it burning hotter (having more thermal energy) than methanol fuel straight up. To add... Methanol burns slow, adding nitro makes it burn even slower... In some cases, the fuel is still burning when it leaves the combustion chamber. This would also add creedance to nitro laden fuel burning a bit cooler than straight methanol fuel since combustion is possibly incomplete when using nitro. Of course this would depend on the engine.
Thats what I take away from the research that I've done. I encourage you or anyone else to post scientific data showing I'm wrong and I'll happily admit I'm wrong.
Thats what I take away from the research that I've done. I encourage you or anyone else to post scientific data showing I'm wrong and I'll happily admit I'm wrong.
When mixed with methanol, nitro acts as a catalyst, INCREASING the burn rate of methanol to produce more power. The more nitro that is used, the faster the fuel can burn. This creates more power and RPM, which in turn causes the engine to operate at a higher temperature.
Last edited by drac1; 02-13-2016 at 04:53 AM.
02-13-2016, 06:05 AM
#113
I'm not a chemist and I don't have 50 years experience with model engines. I have NO intention of running 40-60% nitro in anything... EVER. Perhaps my thoughts come across as a generalization, but perhaps the situation is different on more average engines using average nitro amounts. I have seen with my own eyes using telemetry and infrared thermometers together a 30 degree difference in CHT between 20% nitro and 30% nitro with the 30% being cooler when set at peak mixture. The richer the mixture, the colder the CHT got. Sloppy 4-stroking rich barely got over 85F. Maybe my thermometer lied to me.
Ill never be as experienced as you guys.. Yes, some of what I believe is crap. But I haven't worn an engine out in almost 20 years. I'm done. No need to eat on me and my crap anymore; you're the experts so I'll leave you to it. Sorry I polluted the thread.
Ill never be as experienced as you guys.. Yes, some of what I believe is crap. But I haven't worn an engine out in almost 20 years. I'm done. No need to eat on me and my crap anymore; you're the experts so I'll leave you to it. Sorry I polluted the thread.
02-13-2016, 06:59 AM
#114
How is it possible that you actually beleive this crap? Adding Nitro make for a slower combustion? I think you should actually get some experience running an engine with 50% nitro before making even more ridiculous comments like that. Scientific data? How about listening to the guys that have been running high nitro for years in the real world or do you really need some PHD in a lab someplace to tell you before you get a clue?
a slower burn would not require a drop in compression ratio to run high nitro. I think you are mixing up nitro content with octane rating.
a slower burn would not require a drop in compression ratio to run high nitro. I think you are mixing up nitro content with octane rating.
I suggest you go online and read some articles from people with experiance running 100% nitro. It burns so slow it is still burning in the exhaust pipe. Hence the flames that come out of nitro dragsters and funny cars. The drop in compression ratio is to prevent detonation and to allow an increase in supercharger boost.
02-13-2016, 07:10 AM
#115
My Feedback: (102)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes
on
25 Posts
Hey Tim, you gots to read one more post, maybe when using the 30% nitro the prop was turning faster and cooling the head more. I pretty much stayed out of this discussion because 10% nitro is plenty for me now that have 3 of the High Compression Saitos. Take that first sentence in fun and don't give up.
02-13-2016, 08:56 AM
#116
I suggest you go online and read some articles from people with experiance running 100% nitro. It burns so slow it is still burning in the exhaust pipe. Hence the flames that come out of nitro dragsters and funny cars. The drop in compression ratio is to prevent detonation and to allow an increase in supercharger boost.
I suggest you stick to the topic which is R/C model airplane glow engines and stop using such ridiculous examples to try to shore up your lack of hands on experience. I build rocket engines for a living, I could easily get into the oxygenators we use for solid propellants as well as liquid fuels however it's not exactly the same thing so I won't go there.
nitro is an oxygenator, add oxygen to any form of combustion and it adds heat. We run nitro to increase power, where would that power come from if the nitro produces a cooler burn? More power equals more heat period, there is no other way to produce more power.
02-13-2016, 09:00 AM
#117
Hey Tim, you gots to read one more post, maybe when using the 30% nitro the prop was turning faster and cooling the head more. I pretty much stayed out of this discussion because 10% nitro is plenty for me now that have 3 of the High Compression Saitos. Take that first sentence in fun and don't give up.
.
02-13-2016, 10:59 AM
#118
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-13-2016, 12:02 PM
#119
My Feedback: (66)
add nitro you still need more methanol because you are adding more oxygen to the mixture so to prevent it from running lean then you need more methanol to keep the it in the correct mixture range. So more fuel more oxygen is more heat simple enough for me.
Either way we all think we know what is best and most don't know the correct stuff. its a hobby run what ever you like and remember no matter your experience you might still be wrong.
Now sport pilot I know you are trying to help more I have seen a lot of your posts and I disagree with most of them. I was a air craft mechanic in the AF, certified master mechanic and flying crew chief for a long time as well and I have seen many not so good posts giving the wrong info out. Its your opinion but sometimes its way over the top lol
We all are desk top warriors thinking we all slept at a holiday inn express last night
Either way we all think we know what is best and most don't know the correct stuff. its a hobby run what ever you like and remember no matter your experience you might still be wrong.
Now sport pilot I know you are trying to help more I have seen a lot of your posts and I disagree with most of them. I was a air craft mechanic in the AF, certified master mechanic and flying crew chief for a long time as well and I have seen many not so good posts giving the wrong info out. Its your opinion but sometimes its way over the top lol
We all are desk top warriors thinking we all slept at a holiday inn express last night
02-14-2016, 07:39 AM
#120
I suggest you stick to the topic which is R/C model airplane glow engines and stop using such ridiculous examples to try to shore up your lack of hands on experience. I build rocket engines for a living, I could easily get into the oxygenators we use for solid propellants as well as liquid fuels however it's not exactly the same thing so I won't go there.
nitro is an oxygenator, add oxygen to any form of combustion and it adds heat. We run nitro to increase power, where would that power come from if the nitro produces a cooler burn? More power equals more heat period, there is no other way to produce more power.
nitro is an oxygenator, add oxygen to any form of combustion and it adds heat. We run nitro to increase power, where would that power come from if the nitro produces a cooler burn? More power equals more heat period, there is no other way to produce more power.
Again you are confusing heat with temperature. You can make BTU by heating a pound of water 100 degrees and you get 100 BTU. Or you can heat a thousand pounds of water one degree and you get 1,000 BTU. Nitro is doing the later.
02-14-2016, 07:47 AM
#121
add nitro you still need more methanol because you are adding more oxygen to the mixture so to prevent it from running lean then you need more methanol to keep the it in the correct mixture range. So more fuel more oxygen is more heat simple enough for me.
02-14-2016, 07:58 AM
#123
02-14-2016, 08:56 AM
#124
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The article has an error. It sayst that nitro burns quickly, Well it does at first and then slows down.it does not. It also says it will knock. That is not quite correct. It does knock but from detonation. The nitro has an initial phase that is fast or at least when lean, it is also sensitive to sudden increases in pressure. So if the fuel will detonate which is a very violent form of knock. So violent it can blow the engine. The fuel burn then slows down, so much that it is still burning when the exhaust valve opens and sends a flame out of the header.
It also says that methanol is ignited by the heat of the glow plug, and that is only half the truth, it's a catalytic reaction if my memory serves me right.
The word knocking (and words like it) describing what we hear can be confusing as it can be several things that create the harsh sound.
But as long as everyone understands I guess it's all that matters.
02-14-2016, 10:17 AM
#125
The article has an error. It sayst that nitro burns quickly, Well it does at first and then slows down.it does not. It also says it will knock. That is not quite correct. It does knock but from detonation. The nitro has an initial phase that is fast or at least when lean, it is also sensitive to sudden increases in pressure. So if the fuel will detonate which is a very violent form of knock. So violent it can blow the engine. The fuel burn then slows down, so much that it is still burning when the exhaust valve opens and sends a flame out of the header.
First off off your back pedaling which clearly shows you don't have a firm grasp of what your taking about, then you even go as far as to dispute the data you pretty much demanded. I think your just too stubborn to admit you are wrong. Your use of automotive examples clearly shows this.
FYI, a few months ago Airroaptor tried running either 75 or 80 % nitro through a YS 115 with CDI and had difficulties getting it going.