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Is Cool Power All Synthetic really any cleaner than fuel with Castor oil in it?

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Is Cool Power All Synthetic really any cleaner than fuel with Castor oil in it?

Old 02-04-2016, 05:03 AM
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drac1
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Oil doesn't completely vaporize and castor doesn't at all, so the heat causes temperature change not phase change. Also a liquid conducts the heat into your body much more quickly and our sense picks up both heat and temperature. He didn't say it doesn't take any heat away, just not as much as some claim.
I believe the phrase was, "oil doesn't cool for beans".
Old 02-04-2016, 05:11 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Drac,
I am a professional Mechanical Engineer and he was correct. The oil is not a significant portion of the heat loss. I could put up some calculations if you want but I doubt that would suffice.
Well, I'm a fitter and turner by trade, spent twenty years as a first class machinist and have been involved in mechanical maintenence industry for 30 years.

From experience, Mechanical Engineer doesn't add much credit or make me feel warm and fuzzy.
Old 02-04-2016, 05:23 AM
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RLFGary,

The subject has been very heavily debated! Look out with a question like the one you posted!! My experience is that every engine is different how they spit the oil out. The only way to find out is to experiment a little. I have an O.S. 1.20 AX in a pattern plane that has used both fully synthetic Cool power 18MV, Omega, and Byron 18% synthetic castor mix. Guess what, they both make an absolute mess on my plane. Could it be because of tuning? You bet!! And whole bunch of other factors. My experience has been that a castor blend seems to leave a more noticeable slime. But, what really counts is how the engine looks inside and how it runs. If your not burning plugs or running to lean just go fly and have fun. Nitros spit all over the place and there is nothing you can do about it. Try even angling the muffler a different direction to help you out maybe...that helped me.
Old 02-04-2016, 05:23 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by drac1
I believe the phrase was, "oil doesn't cool for beans".
Well beans absorb heat. Yeah, not much, not sure which does better, oil or beans.

Last edited by Sport_Pilot; 02-04-2016 at 06:28 AM.
Old 02-04-2016, 05:28 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by drac1
Well, I'm a fitter and turner by trade, spent twenty years as a first class machinist and have been involved in mechanical maintenence industry for 30 years.

From experience, Mechanical Engineer doesn't add much credit or make me feel warm and fuzzy.
Ok I should have said I am state licensed as a Professional Engineer for building construction and HVAC. I have to understand heat loss and gain. And machinist do not other than what cooling lubricant to use. Today mechanical engineers get minimal education on machining and methods and should be depending on you for that. If some engineer above you says different, then they are simply and AH and that has nothing to do with education.
Old 02-04-2016, 06:03 AM
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RLFGary,

What kind of engine are you using currently? 2 stroke or 4 stroke? To me it doesn't really matter because it is sloppy no matter what....just curious.

Old 02-04-2016, 06:27 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
Well beans absorb heat. Yean not much, not sure which does better, oil or beans.
Just to clarify, I never said oil doesn't carry away heat at all. It does, just a minuscule amount. But the point is moot because some facts still just aren't enough to prove ones point.

edit: I'll just add - if the oil in the fuel had such a dramatic effect on engine cooling, the RC car guys' fuel would have a lot more oil in it than it does. Most RC car fuel is 20-30% nitro and 8-12% oil, which is usually all of mostly synthetic. What helps keeps them cool is the fatter needle setting due to the high nitro plus you get a higher volume of oil going through the engine because of the fatter needle setting.

All off topic, sorry for that. On topic - the more nitro you use in your fuel, the higher likelihood of more oily mess on the plane than using a lower nitro fuel.

Last edited by 1QwkSport2.5r; 02-04-2016 at 07:07 AM.
Old 02-04-2016, 08:03 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by rlfgary
Getting sick of the greasy mess. Want to know if Cool Power is less gooey. Somebody said it makes your plane green. Really? Thanks!
When I was flying Nitro exclusively, I would use Cool Power "Pink" and "Green". I believe the Pink is 80/20% Synthetic/Castor, and the Green is 100% Synthetic. The Green was definitely easier to wipe off of the bird than the Pink was. That Castor Oil kind'a stuck to the airframe more and the residue felt thicker. Just my "Dos Pesos"...
Old 02-04-2016, 09:24 AM
  #34  
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In answer to the guy's original question, about the crap left on the airplane, if your needle is set correctly so you are not running lean and vaporizing/burning off some of the synthetic oil in your fuel, the amount of goo left will be exactly in proportion to the fuel's oil content.

The real reason for the description of synthetic oil being "cleaner" is that
1.) when over heated
2.) used oil is allowed to sit on the aircraft
bean oil (castor oil) goes thru a chemical change that becomes a thick, viscous deposit that is sticky and hard to remove. Synthetic oils do not and are almost always easier to clean off,

In the years that I flew glow I always mixed my fuel with some castor oil and some (mostly) synthetic (Klotz KL100.) The castor was no problem to clean as long as you did so at the end of the flying day. A mist of windshield washer fluid helped a lot. Was only a problem if you let the castor residue sit on the airplane more than a few days or if you didn't run some after run oil through your motor before you retired it for the winter. The real yuk factor was when you used fuel with no synthetic. The all castor residue, especially from a high, all castor, oil content fuel like Fox superfuel (which I think was 25% oil) was like trying to get honey off your plane and God help you if you missed any after that last flight of the summer!


Dave Hickey
Old 02-04-2016, 10:28 AM
  #35  
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Thanks Dave, here is some of that brown sticky stuff, it is tough stuff too. I use some of those NAPA blue mechanics paper towels, If youstick one against the crank you can actually pick up the crank.
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Last edited by Hobbsy; 02-04-2016 at 10:31 AM.
Old 02-04-2016, 01:20 PM
  #36  
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Synthetic oils burn to an ash.

Dave, all of the sticks seem to be good fliers. Jim likes the small sized Ultrastick that is a good one too. I flew it once or twice when he wasn't using expo and I didn't know that, so Jim's plane was all of the sky for a minute or two until I figured it out. I think he switched to dialing some in.
Old 02-04-2016, 01:43 PM
  #37  
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I just joined the wing halves on it, I'll remember to expo a little, Thanks.

PS, it came with really nice axles, two of the wheels are mounted too. I should have the .65 back together by the end of the week.
Old 02-04-2016, 11:34 PM
  #38  
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So much wrong information in this thread. Drac, Dave and Dave are correct.


OP want less oil on your plane then run a lower oil content. instead of 18 try 16% oil.
IMO
Synthetic oil provides better protection when you keep your engine cool.
Castor protects better when the engine runs hot and you run it lean. Most MFG's suggest lots of oil to protect them and keep owner happy with their engines. If you're good at tuning an engine try a lower oil content and you might be surprised. Now one thing about oil content. If you lower the oil content and you see a drop in power it doesn't always mean that parts are rubbing and causing a power loss. On some engines the extra oil since it doesn't burn adds compression to the engine. So play around with the engines. try less oil and if you see a large drop in power try it with the head shim removed and see how it does then.
Old 02-05-2016, 04:04 AM
  #39  
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The main question posed is "is cool power less messy than fuel with castor?" The answer is no, generally. Same/similar amount of oil slime, but a little easier to clean off. Denatured alcohol or winded work well for cleaning the stuff off among other things. The other tidbit that came up was whether the oil in the fuel has a dramatic effect on engine cooling; which it does not. Too much oil can actually cause more engine heat (over-compressing) and too-little can do the same thing (friction). The same thing can happen if one uses more nitro than what the engine can handle - the richer needle setting causes the engine to be overcompressed. This can be remedied with an extra head shim or two.

The temp at which synthetic oil burns is lower than castor by a reasonable margin, but if the needle is set properly, shouldn't be an issue. People have been using it for a long time with few issues. I would never use the stuff myself, but that's just me.

I'm done.

Last edited by 1QwkSport2.5r; 02-05-2016 at 04:13 AM.
Old 02-05-2016, 10:28 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by airraptor
So much wrong information in this thread. Drac, Dave and Dave are correct.


OP want less oil on your plane then run a lower oil content. instead of 18 try 16% oil.
IMO
Synthetic oil provides better protection when you keep your engine cool.
Castor protects better when the engine runs hot and you run it lean. Most MFG's suggest lots of oil to protect them and keep owner happy with their engines. If you're good at tuning an engine try a lower oil content and you might be surprised. Now one thing about oil content. If you lower the oil content and you see a drop in power it doesn't always mean that parts are rubbing and causing a power loss. On some engines the extra oil since it doesn't burn adds compression to the engine. So play around with the engines. try less oil and if you see a large drop in power try it with the head shim removed and see how it does then.

Most synthetic oils are thinner than castor, perhaps all of them. Because of that they will not protect better than castor unless you use a larger percentage. The oil Dave Dairy Farmer's (Hobbsy?) Wildcat is thicker than most synthetic, but I do not think it is thicker than castor. And oil does cool, but the vast majority is from lubrication. Not so much from heating the oil. Methanol does more which is why a rich mixture is so cool.
Old 02-05-2016, 10:29 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by 1QwkSport2.5r
The main question posed is "is cool power less messy than fuel with castor?" The answer is no, generally. Same/similar amount of oil slime, but a little easier to clean off. Denatured alcohol or winded work well for cleaning the stuff off among other things. The other tidbit that came up was whether the oil in the fuel has a dramatic effect on engine cooling; which it does not. Too much oil can actually cause more engine heat (over-compressing) and too-little can do the same thing (friction). The same thing can happen if one uses more nitro than what the engine can handle - the richer needle setting causes the engine to be overcompressed. This can be remedied with an extra head shim or two.

The temp at which synthetic oil burns is lower than castor by a reasonable margin, but if the needle is set properly, shouldn't be an issue. People have been using it for a long time with few issues. I would never use the stuff myself, but that's just me.

I'm done.
I think rubbing alcohol added to your cleaner will help dissolve the oil mess, but will not attack the adhesive of the covering as much as denatured alcohol.
Old 02-05-2016, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
I think rubbing alcohol added to your cleaner will help dissolve the oil mess, but will not attack the adhesive of the covering as much as denatured alcohol.
All denatured alcohol is is ethanol with methanol added to make it unsafe for consumption. I don't see how denatured alcohol would be any worse on covering than the fuel the engine runs on in the first place. At any rate, windex or formula 409 works well and leaves a streak-free shine.
Old 02-05-2016, 11:23 AM
  #43  
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Thanks guys! Main point, Cool Power does no reduce the mess. Thanks!
rlfgary
Old 02-05-2016, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rlfgary
Thanks guys! Main point, Cool Power does no reduce the mess. Thanks!
rlfgary
Does not reduce the Oil on plane but IS easier to clean up. In that way you might say it is less messy.

You want less mess get one of the new smaller Gas engines, especially the ones that use a glow plug
(OS GG 10 or 15). They are using 2% oil NOT castor so it is easy to clean up, doesn't get
sticky on sitting and on top of that they swing a larger prop which usually flys the model better.


Dave Hickey

Last edited by DaveHickey; 02-05-2016 at 11:54 AM.
Old 02-05-2016, 06:55 PM
  #45  
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sport pilot sport pilot Synthetic oil does protect better as long as you don't over heat your engine or run it lean. Some older engines require the castor because of certain parts as this engine the castor will help.
Sport do some reading on oils before you lead people in wrong direction. I have been wrong before as most of the time I will not comment on things like this until I have researched some stuff. I just see most of the time people think because they are a pilot or a jet engine mechanic that they know everything.

So if you want less oil on your plane either put exhaust so it isn't on the plane or run less oil.
Old 02-05-2016, 10:55 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by rlfgary
Thanks guys! Main point, Cool Power does no reduce the mess. Thanks!
rlfgary
Cool Power will also keep your engine cleaner. Castor will stain which is hard to get completely off and will gum the engine if left sitting for too long.
Old 02-06-2016, 05:30 AM
  #47  
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As an experiment I ran a Fox .25 with a Meehanite piston and an LA .65 bushing engine on the Wildcat full synthetic. There was no hint that the synthetic lube was not doing its job, in the long run, I don't know, but I suspect they'd be fine. I also ran an old SuperTigre .51 in which I had installed a new Frank Bowman ring, it ran fine. That's all I've run Saitos and an OS or two on for about 5 years.
Old 02-06-2016, 08:58 AM
  #48  
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Sport do some reading on oils before you lead people in wrong direction.
I have, from experts. You have no clue as to what you are talking about. I will not at present post info. Will see how long the ignorant pretend to be experts.

Last edited by Sport_Pilot; 02-06-2016 at 09:01 AM.
Old 02-06-2016, 09:01 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Dave, FormerDairyFarmer
As an experiment I ran a Fox .25 with a Meehanite piston and an LA .65 bushing engine on the Wildcat full synthetic. There was no hint that the synthetic lube was not doing its job, in the long run, I don't know, but I suspect they'd be fine. I also ran an old SuperTigre .51 in which I had installed a new Frank Bowman ring, it ran fine. That's all I've run Saitos and an OS or two on for about 5 years.
For one I said that castor is thicker than most synthetics. But since the same engine will do fine with castor as well this is no proof that one is better than the other. Yes most engines will do fine with synthetic. With this type of testing you would have to run hard till the same model of engine is worn out on both oils.
Old 02-06-2016, 09:09 AM
  #50  
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Hugh, you don't need get argumentative, I qualified the statement by saying, "in the long run, I don't know", and what you say is very true.

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