airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

Dave former don't worry about Sport pilot. If you go back and look at his post in other threads you will see what other and I have seen. The thing about forums is everyone is an expert and it pays to just do your own research on any subject specially if there are varied opinions on the subject. I don't claim to be an expert but I have the experience to know when someone is posting bad info. I love this hobby and want to help the all in the sport be better and have a great time doing it.

I do like how guys will say something like sport saying I am wrong yet will not post anything to support their claim lol. At least I posted my opinions as to why he wasn't providing the best answer to the start of the thread.

Sport_Pilot

Airraptor, You say synthetic is superior. Other than perhaps some of the European oils and higher quality esters that is simply not true. And especially not true of Cruel Power. You say I need to read, so post what ever you find that says synthetic is superior, because I cannof find it!

1QwkSport2.5r

The discussion always gets pretty heated and oftentimes off topic when the subject of oil comes up. Much like gas vs. glow, Ford vs. Chevy, etc.

When it comes to oil, in my opinion, there's a place for synthetic, and there's a place for castor. For most folks using modern engines using the latest types of metallurgy, a blend works best. Do either/or in whole work fine? Most likely yes, so long as one knows what the limits of the fuel (oil) is. The root of the subject is whether one is "cleaner" than the other. Answer is not really. One is easier to clean off than the other, but they both leave a mess.

I use mostly castor because it's dirt cheap. $17/gal for castor (oil only) versus $40/gal for synthetic (oil only). A recent visit to my hobby shop showed 30% nitro car fuel is $39/gal, 15% airplane fuel is $31/gal.

Sport_Pilot

If the oil burned to an ash, you would find grey ash deposits in the engine. Similar to the ash deposits in motor oil around spark plugs and exhaust valves.

Sport_Pilot

Where do you get castor for $17 a gallon. Last time I bought it was $20 and that was a long time ago.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

I personally think that the, "you gotta use castor" mentality is slowly fading into oblivion, guys in Europe have been doing nicely without it years., now if we could just use less nitro.

1QwkSport2.5r

It's $25/gal through Stan at S&W fuels (my last vendor), but I'm gonna get it from American Specialty Oils next time. $17.99/gal.

1QwkSport2.5r

Most guys these days are running modern Ringless tapered bore engines that don't explicitly need castor oil to run. I can vouch for using at least a little castor in some engines. My ABC RC car engines do run 15-20 degrees cooler if I run them on a castor laden fuel as opposed to a mostly synthetic laden fuel. They rarely varnish up because they're not run WOT much. I think airplane engines are much less finicky because there's so much more oil in the fuel and use less nitro typically.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

In most engines these days, there is no need to run castor, but if you want to, there's no problem apart from the staining of the engine. It's a personal choice.
I used to run 1 or 2% of castor, but even that amount was still staining the engine, so I now use 100% Cool Power MV in all my engines. 2 and 4 stroke.

The amount of nitro used is also a personal choice dependant on what you want to acheive from your engine. Most want to use less, purely because of cost. I don't mix my fuel based on cost. I use the mix I need to get the performance and reliability I require. I run 30% in all my engines and find they run perfect all the time.

1QwkSport2.5r

Hey Drac1 - what does a gallon of 30% fuel cost in your neck of the woods?

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

Pre mixed is $60 AUD - $42.40 USD.

I mix my own which costs around half of the pre mixed. $29 AUD - $20.50 USD.

1QwkSport2.5r

Your previous post said you didn't mix your own, that's why I asked. 30% costs me about the same to make, but I don't use 30% in anything.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

You misinterpreted what I posted. I said, "I don't mix my fuel based on cost". I have always mixed my own.
When I first started flying YS's, I did buy pre mixed for awhile, but I haven't bought any for 15 years.

YS DZ's are a high performance engine and love nitro.
From what I've seen/heard, and based on my experiences, I think many problems some have with YS's, are to do with not using enough nitro. Just my opinion.

1QwkSport2.5r

I did misread what you posted, my apologies. I do mix my own because of cost as a major factor, but the other is several of my engines have special fuel needs that my LHS won't order fuel for. So I save a bunch of money on fuel and my engines get the fuel they need.

Someday I may try a YS, but not for awhile. The nitro thirsty engines don't really interest me much right now.

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

All the YS engines run great on 20% nitro. I run all syn in almost all of my engines. I do still run a little castor in some sport engines and some really old engines that have been run on syn and you can't get any parts for i will run 100% castor in them and run them hot so they build up on the piston and seal a little better. Now some guys have run engines for a good long time on the 50%syn and 50% castor oil mix and then when they switch to a full syn they loss power and blame it on the oil. The problem here is the operator is at fault not the oil lol. Synthetic oil can and most of the time will wash the castor build up off the engine showing the loss in power.

I have run a couple of my YS engines on 75% but not recommended. 60% is where most cut off on the YS fourstrokes.
For those that are new to engines or can't tune them stay with the castor oil.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

Well I suppose cost is a factor as I can get twice as much fuel for the cost of pre mixed, but I don't base percentages on cost. Plus I can experiment a bit and if I find it isn't right, I can remix it with no loss.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

I've always run 30% and never had fuel related problems so I stick with it. Some have tried less than 20% to save money and I think that's where the problem is.
I'm actually going to try 40% and see how that goes.

tony0707

Full syn would be a thinner oil ,so just a bit less gooey ,to clean off the airframe
I choose to wipe down the airframe ,right after each flight ,to keep my film covering mint
Windex ,some alcohol and some sink soap is a good mix ,and cleaner
I would Never use just Cool ( cruel ) power again , in any two cycle glo engine ,after using it for the first 3 years i flew RC , per the LHS sugestion ( he is selling engines )
I was a very experienced glo engine handler coming off 5 years of U control combat ,and was really very unhappy with the extensive internal wear my engines ,were showing me
Wore out several engines ,far to soon
i do all my own engine repair work for over 30 years
My fuel of choice is ,Morgan Omega 15% - 80/20 syn / castor mix ,little engine wear ever
When you have a lean run on a two cycle engine ,the castor oil gets thicker and sticks to the internal engine metal,increasing its protection ,of the metal
Castor oil brakes down about 100 degress over that of syn oil
So when the syn oil is of no longer of value ( engines temp rising ) ,the castor oilwill protect your engine from DAmAGE
Running an engine lean just happens ,when you fly two cycle glo for long enough ,air leaks Etc
Correcting the problem ASAP is the key to keeping your engines running soundly
Castor Oil will keep your internal engine parts New , showing little wear for many many years

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Tony, here is some Wildcat full synthetic in the bottom of a Saito 1.50, it is not thin, it flows slowly.

Sport_Pilot

Actually those need the castor because of the film strength that helps prevent metal to metal contact. Many ABB ACC engines recommend some castor. Ringed engines not so much.

Sport_Pilot

I thought the discussion was about coolpower? Yes Wildcat uses a thick synthetic, possibly ester based.

1QwkSport2.5r

They don't need castor, but should have it. I have several Italian ABC car engines that explicitly say in the manual to use 10-12% castor oil for break-in and 8-10% castor oil after break-in depending on the engine. They are Novarossi and Picco engines. They will run on a synthetic fuel fine, just need a fatter mixture or higher nitro to keep enough oil volume going through them. If you ask me what fuel *I* will use in them? Exactly what the manual suggests. 12% castor for break-in and 10% after. The synthetic oil will have a little better lubricity, but castor has a better film strength I think.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

We've been around the horn here talking about Cool Power, Omega, S&W, Wildcat, every discussion invites comparisons and experience sharing. We are supposed to behave as if we're sitting around the flying field on our camp chairs gabbing.

1QwkSport2.5r

I like to think I'm playing nice despite being off topic for most of my replies. No?

Sport_Pilot

Not saying it's not nice to be off topic. But that my posts were about Cool Power and the PAG oils used in Cool Power and similar fuel. The thicker based oils used in Wildcat is a slightly different animal. I don't think it has the same film strength as castor but it's thicker than the Cool Power oil so it's film strength is likely higher as well.