Is Cool Power All Synthetic really any cleaner than fuel with Castor oil in it?
02-07-2016, 09:25 AM
#76
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Remember most manuals are written by the MFG and could protect them more than help the user.
Most tell you to use castor so that the engine is protected more when ran hot and lean. They have to write that manual to host a range of people from beginners to experts. They lean more on the beginner than the expert. If they told what to run for best power and expect you to tune correctly then they would. Now if the new guy ran the engine lean burned it up and wanted a warranty exchange they would go broke.
I find it funny how people talk about thinner and thicker oil saying this or that but its mixed in with methanol and the viscosity is much closer to that of the methanol lol.
Most tell you to use castor so that the engine is protected more when ran hot and lean. They have to write that manual to host a range of people from beginners to experts. They lean more on the beginner than the expert. If they told what to run for best power and expect you to tune correctly then they would. Now if the new guy ran the engine lean burned it up and wanted a warranty exchange they would go broke.
I find it funny how people talk about thinner and thicker oil saying this or that but its mixed in with methanol and the viscosity is much closer to that of the methanol lol.
02-07-2016, 09:46 AM
#77
Remember most manuals are written by the MFG and could protect them more than help the user.
Most tell you to use castor so that the engine is protected more when ran hot and lean. They have to write that manual to host a range of people from beginners to experts. They lean more on the beginner than the expert. If they told what to run for best power and expect you to tune correctly then they would. Now if the new guy ran the engine lean burned it up and wanted a warranty exchange they would go broke.
I find it funny how people talk about thinner and thicker oil saying this or that but its mixed in with methanol and the viscosity is much closer to that of the methanol lol.
Most tell you to use castor so that the engine is protected more when ran hot and lean. They have to write that manual to host a range of people from beginners to experts. They lean more on the beginner than the expert. If they told what to run for best power and expect you to tune correctly then they would. Now if the new guy ran the engine lean burned it up and wanted a warranty exchange they would go broke.
I find it funny how people talk about thinner and thicker oil saying this or that but its mixed in with methanol and the viscosity is much closer to that of the methanol lol.
02-07-2016, 10:38 AM
#78
Remember most manuals are written by the MFG and could protect them more than help the user.
Most tell you to use castor so that the engine is protected more when ran hot and lean. They have to write that manual to host a range of people from beginners to experts. They lean more on the beginner than the expert. If they told what to run for best power and expect you to tune correctly then they would. Now if the new guy ran the engine lean burned it up and wanted a warranty exchange they would go broke.
I find it funny how people talk about thinner and thicker oil saying this or that but its mixed in with methanol and the viscosity is much closer to that of the methanol lol.
Most tell you to use castor so that the engine is protected more when ran hot and lean. They have to write that manual to host a range of people from beginners to experts. They lean more on the beginner than the expert. If they told what to run for best power and expect you to tune correctly then they would. Now if the new guy ran the engine lean burned it up and wanted a warranty exchange they would go broke.
I find it funny how people talk about thinner and thicker oil saying this or that but its mixed in with methanol and the viscosity is much closer to that of the methanol lol.
02-08-2016, 07:36 AM
#79
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Face it, there is no solution for after flight clean up with glow engines. It is just a fact in the glow engine business. Even gassers have to clean up. So it the cleaning is to much of a nuisance, better stick with electrics. Quieter, cleaner and they all give you a charge (time of course). I like the noise and I like the smell of Castor oil. But then I am an old fart and I do not want to change to electrics.
02-08-2016, 07:39 AM
#80
Face it, there is no solution for after flight clean up with glow engines. It is just a fact in the glow engine business. Even gassers have to clean up. So it the cleaning is to much of a nuisance, better stick with electrics. Quieter, cleaner and they all give you a charge (time of course). I like the noise and I like the smell of Castor oil. But then I am an old fart and I do not want to change to electrics.
02-08-2016, 08:59 AM
#81
I'm in the same boat. I have an electric Ultra Micro T-28 Trojan that I'm using as a trainer of sorts. The rest of my planes are glow powered including a small 1/2a Norvel trainer, but I'd rather crash the tiny foamy that I can repair with scotch tape until I'm comfortable flying the glow planes. Granted, my main interests are cars and boats, but they all need cleaning after running. I only use a bit of synthetic oil in the fuel for my Jetts, but otherwise I use only castor oil and don't mind the bit of mess. Clean up after you're done flying/running for the day and it's a done deal. A little fogging oil or ATF in the engine keeps it free and smooth during storage.
02-09-2016, 01:13 PM
#82
Reading through this thread was very entertaining. As usual the guys who boast about knowing the most are the guys with the least amout of experience. Comments like " Oil does nothing for cooling " and " nitro aids cooling " are absolutely ridiculous. One comment about the oil coming out of the exhaust would burn his hand is correct. Why? Because the oil is absorbing heat....duhhhhh. As for nitro, last I heard nitro is an oxygenator, add oxygen to flame and it gets hotter! Another Duhhhhhh. As for castor oil, if you are happy using it, good for you but don't try to convince anyone it protects better then straight synthetic. That may have been the case 30 years ago but not today. Example, both I and Airrsptor run engines with as much as 60% nitro on straight synthetic and experience no issues doing so. We have been doing this for several years. We are running YS 115 engines with 14x14 props, If anyone has this level of experience with that much nitro and that much load that can conflict our findings then please let us know otherwise your opinion is just speculation. Comments about car engines need not apply.
Last edited by speedracerntrixie; 02-09-2016 at 01:16 PM.
02-09-2016, 01:25 PM
#83
LoL. 
Glow plug engines are glow plug engines. They all operate the same way (burn fuel and produce power (work). It makes sense to me (I must be dumb) that an engine burning no nitro will have a leaner needle setting and thus a hotter head temp than an engine burning a lot of nitro which would require a much richer needle and thus having a significantly higher amount of fuel going through the engine. Adding oxygen to the fire makes it hotter, but more oxygen means more fuel which means more methanol vaporizing and cooling the engine. As for oil cooling - sure it helps carry away some heat... But the oil having a substantial impact on heat dissipation? I doubt that. But I'm not as smart as you fellas. If anyone has any published information as to prove any of this one way or another, please share. I haven't found any data to prove any of this one way or another.
I knew I should have gone to college..
Glow plug engines are glow plug engines. They all operate the same way (burn fuel and produce power (work). It makes sense to me (I must be dumb) that an engine burning no nitro will have a leaner needle setting and thus a hotter head temp than an engine burning a lot of nitro which would require a much richer needle and thus having a significantly higher amount of fuel going through the engine. Adding oxygen to the fire makes it hotter, but more oxygen means more fuel which means more methanol vaporizing and cooling the engine. As for oil cooling - sure it helps carry away some heat... But the oil having a substantial impact on heat dissipation? I doubt that. But I'm not as smart as you fellas. If anyone has any published information as to prove any of this one way or another, please share. I haven't found any data to prove any of this one way or another.
I knew I should have gone to college..
Last edited by 1QwkSport2.5r; 02-09-2016 at 01:39 PM.
02-09-2016, 11:13 PM
#84
Reading through this thread was very entertaining. As usual the guys who boast about knowing the most are the guys with the least amout of experience. Comments like " Oil does nothing for cooling " and " nitro aids cooling " are absolutely ridiculous. One comment about the oil coming out of the exhaust would burn his hand is correct. Why? Because the oil is absorbing heat....duhhhhh. As for nitro, last I heard nitro is an oxygenator, add oxygen to flame and it gets hotter! Another Duhhhhhh. As for castor oil, if you are happy using it, good for you but don't try to convince anyone it protects better then straight synthetic. That may have been the case 30 years ago but not today. Example, both I and Airrsptor run engines with as much as 60% nitro on straight synthetic and experience no issues doing so. We have been doing this for several years. We are running YS 115 engines with 14x14 props, If anyone has this level of experience with that much nitro and that much load that can conflict our findings then please let us know otherwise your opinion is just speculation. Comments about car engines need not apply.
Ever see a radiator on a dragster? It's not needed because the engine is cooled by the extra rich fuel mixture.
02-10-2016, 12:56 AM
#85
You two are hilarious. First off yes with more nitro you must run a richer needle setting, that we can agree upon but that's where it ends. To produce more power you need the bigger bang, that bigger bang comes with more heat. BTUs equals power. Bottom line is the higher nitro percentages do not lead to cooler running engines. My YS 115 runs noticeably hotter running 55% nitro then it does 30%. This is not theory, it's a fact discovered through real world experience. As for R/C car engines compared to airplane engines the principals are similar but the way the engines are loaded is much different. An engine with a prop is going to have a greater load. When we are talking about glow engines, load can be factored in as a component the influences ignition timing. This is why car engines can get away with less oil content. Before the Suzuki GSXR went to liquid cooling they had a design feature that literally squirted a stream of oil on the inside skirt of the Pistons to aid cooling. Usually I dislike using other engine technology in these discussions however the air cooled inline four has much more in common with our model engines then a dragster engine.
Top op fuel and funny car dragsters as an example is just ridiculous and grabbing at straws. The methanol doesn't cool the engine. For one they are running for a very short amount of time. Let one sit at a 4,000 rpm idle for 10 minutes and see what happens.
Top op fuel and funny car dragsters as an example is just ridiculous and grabbing at straws. The methanol doesn't cool the engine. For one they are running for a very short amount of time. Let one sit at a 4,000 rpm idle for 10 minutes and see what happens.
Last edited by speedracerntrixie; 02-10-2016 at 01:01 AM.
02-10-2016, 01:04 AM
#86
You two are hilarious. First off yes with more nitro you must run a richer needle setting, that we can agree upon but that's where it ends. To produce more power you need the bigger bang, that bigger bang comes with more heat. BTUs equals power. Bottom line is the higher nitro percentages do not lead to cooler running engines. My YS 115 runs noticeably hotter running 55% nitro then it does 30%. This is not theory, it's a fact discovered through real world experience. As for R/C car engines compared to airplane engines the principals are similar but the way the engines are loaded is much different. An engine with a prop is going to have a greater load. When we are talking about glow engines, load can be factored in as a component the influences ignition timing. This is why car engines can get away with less oil content. Before the Suzuki GSXR went to liquid cooling they had a design feature that literally squirted a stream of oil on the inside skirt of the Pistons to aid cooling. Usually I dislike using other engine technology in these discussions however the air cooled inline four has much more in common with our model engines then a dragster engine.
Top op fuel and funny car dragsters as an example is just ridiculous and grabbing at straws. The methanol doesn't cool the engine. For one they are running for a very short amount of time. Let one sit at a 4,000 rpm idle for 10 minutes and see what happens.
Top op fuel and funny car dragsters as an example is just ridiculous and grabbing at straws. The methanol doesn't cool the engine. For one they are running for a very short amount of time. Let one sit at a 4,000 rpm idle for 10 minutes and see what happens.
02-10-2016, 01:13 AM
#87
1. I don' think anybody said oil does nothing for cooling. Nitro is a monopropellant. That means it can burn with no additional air. Without methanol the richer you can burn it the faster you go. That is why AA fuel dragsters and funny cars have huge 44 amp magneto's.
Ever see a radiator on a dragster? 2. It's not needed because the engine is cooled by the extra rich fuel mixture.
Ever see a radiator on a dragster? 2. It's not needed because the engine is cooled by the extra rich fuel mixture.
2. If you do some actual research, you will find that guys with 40 years experience in building Top Fuel Dragster engines, say that they are essentially an oil cooled engine.
02-10-2016, 03:56 AM
#88
Like I said. Let's see some scientific data proving the theory. I have scoured the Internet and even the library to find anything proving this theory one way or another with no dice. I don't have the age and wisdom you older fellas have, so I just can't be the expert you are.
Or we can agree to disagree and just put it to bed? Better yet, I'll concede to agree to disagree and leave you fellas to it.
Or we can agree to disagree and just put it to bed? Better yet, I'll concede to agree to disagree and leave you fellas to it.
02-10-2016, 04:09 AM
#89
You two are hilarious. First off yes with more nitro you must run a richer needle setting, that we can agree upon but that's where it ends. To produce more power you need the bigger bang, that bigger bang comes with more heat. BTUs equals power. Bottom line is the higher nitro percentages do not lead to cooler running engines. My YS 115 runs noticeably hotter running 55% nitro then it does 30%. This is not theory, it's a fact discovered through real world experience. As for R/C car engines compared to airplane engines the principals are similar but the way the engines are loaded is much different. An engine with a prop is going to have a greater load. When we are talking about glow engines, load can be factored in as a component the influences ignition timing. This is why car engines can get away with less oil content. Before the Suzuki GSXR went to liquid cooling they had a design feature that literally squirted a stream of oil on the inside skirt of the Pistons to aid cooling. Usually I dislike using other engine technology in these discussions however the air cooled inline four has much more in common with our model engines then a dragster engine.
Top op fuel and funny car dragsters as an example is just ridiculous and grabbing at straws. The methanol doesn't cool the engine. For one they are running for a very short amount of time. Let one sit at a 4,000 rpm idle for 10 minutes and see what happens.
Top op fuel and funny car dragsters as an example is just ridiculous and grabbing at straws. The methanol doesn't cool the engine. For one they are running for a very short amount of time. Let one sit at a 4,000 rpm idle for 10 minutes and see what happens.
02-10-2016, 04:09 AM
#90
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I stated earlier that I'm in the camp of the those who believe the oil does a considerable amount of the cooling. Now, who among us is brave enough to run an engine with oil and then without oil to test the theory.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 02-10-2016 at 04:25 AM.
02-10-2016, 04:14 AM
#91
I think you are the one that needs to do research. They have no oil cooler so how is it cooled with oil? I think maybe you did this 40 years ago, not 40 years of experience.
02-10-2016, 04:16 AM
#92
Well I am in the camp that oil does considerable to prevent heat from friction. But only so so as rejecting heat by absorbing it and casting it out the exhaust. The main reason is simply its mass is low compared to the total heat rejected.
02-10-2016, 04:17 AM
#93
Post #16 I think it was. Something about beans.
But beans can do some cooling. To my mind to say something doesn't do something for beans means it doesn't do it well, not at all.
02-10-2016, 10:27 AM
#94
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My buddy is going to be so happy, no more problem in his methanol burning tractor! 
They idle the engine until it about 80c, after a pull the engine will be down about 30c, all while making about 2200hp.
That oil in a large engine is critical when it comes to remove heat is true, pistons and valve springs needs to be cooled.
(After +1000 engines in dyno runs I know)
Now saying that a Top Fuel engine is an oil cooled engine... well, lets look at the numbers.
They say they burn at least 11.2 gallon/second, that's 544.75944 Mj / sec, or 544759,44Kw / sec.
The highest recorded hp in a Top Fuel engine is above 10.000hp, or 7456,9987Kw / sec.
That means they have about 537302 Kw in losses / sec.
1kg of water that's 10c in temperature would boil and evaporate in 0,0049 seconds from the energy loss / sec.
Oil would do better, maybe four times as well(?), but still...
Top Fuel engines rely on cooling from the fuel.
Read the section about fuel; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Fuel
You will also see there that lambda 1 is 1.7:1 for nitro.
Now our glow engines, well they have the oil in the fuel and as such it's subjected to the combustion process.
It would be strange if it didn't get hot, and the more heat it absorbs the less power the engine will make therefore.
If the oil absorbs heat in the crank case of an two stroke before combustion it can decrease heat, but tests would be needed to get any useful information about that.
If you open the back plate of a two stroke after running it you will see oil that has separated from the fuel, if you don't see this, change fuel!
The debate about oil is about as accurate as the rest...
They idle the engine until it about 80c, after a pull the engine will be down about 30c, all while making about 2200hp.
That oil in a large engine is critical when it comes to remove heat is true, pistons and valve springs needs to be cooled.
(After +1000 engines in dyno runs I know)
Now saying that a Top Fuel engine is an oil cooled engine... well, lets look at the numbers.
They say they burn at least 11.2 gallon/second, that's 544.75944 Mj / sec, or 544759,44Kw / sec.
The highest recorded hp in a Top Fuel engine is above 10.000hp, or 7456,9987Kw / sec.
That means they have about 537302 Kw in losses / sec.
1kg of water that's 10c in temperature would boil and evaporate in 0,0049 seconds from the energy loss / sec.
Oil would do better, maybe four times as well(?), but still...
Top Fuel engines rely on cooling from the fuel.
Read the section about fuel; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Fuel
You will also see there that lambda 1 is 1.7:1 for nitro.
Now our glow engines, well they have the oil in the fuel and as such it's subjected to the combustion process.
It would be strange if it didn't get hot, and the more heat it absorbs the less power the engine will make therefore.
If the oil absorbs heat in the crank case of an two stroke before combustion it can decrease heat, but tests would be needed to get any useful information about that.
If you open the back plate of a two stroke after running it you will see oil that has separated from the fuel, if you don't see this, change fuel!
The debate about oil is about as accurate as the rest...
02-10-2016, 07:24 PM
#97
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When I was flying Nitro exclusively, I would use Cool Power "Pink" and "Green". I believe the Pink is 80/20% Synthetic/Castor, and the Green is 100% Synthetic. The Green was definitely easier to wipe off of the bird than the Pink was. That Castor Oil kind'a stuck to the airframe more and the residue felt thicker. Just my "Dos Pesos"...
02-11-2016, 09:11 AM
#100
Oil doesn't provide a lot of cooling, but a minor amount, with friction reduction being the significant point. The methanol in the fuel is where one gets a significant cooling effect.
Years ago a Swedish company made the Damo 2.18 twin cylinder four stroke engines. The engines were designed to run without oil in the fuel. Just straight methanol for the fuel, no nitro and no oil. The methanol provided the lubrication as needed. But after they sold a number of engines, people were reporting problems with the engines. So they eventually started suggesting to use 1% oil in the fuel. But they did make quite a few prototype engines of which they had modellers use, test run and fly; and those engines did quite well without oil. So maybe it was a user issue at the time. The engines use needle and ball bearings on everything.
ref http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1851088
Years ago a Swedish company made the Damo 2.18 twin cylinder four stroke engines. The engines were designed to run without oil in the fuel. Just straight methanol for the fuel, no nitro and no oil. The methanol provided the lubrication as needed. But after they sold a number of engines, people were reporting problems with the engines. So they eventually started suggesting to use 1% oil in the fuel. But they did make quite a few prototype engines of which they had modellers use, test run and fly; and those engines did quite well without oil. So maybe it was a user issue at the time. The engines use needle and ball bearings on everything.
ref http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1851088
Last edited by earlwb; 02-11-2016 at 09:19 AM.