Eagle Flyer

My Feedback: (84)

I want to convert a Saito 180 to gas. Pro Spark has the perfect ignition setup. What I need now is to find someone capable of redoing the carb needle and seat to a finer thread and also preferably change the angle of the needle and seat to a sharper one. Does anyone know of a person that can perform these tasks? Or the other option is to remove the present needle and outer thread unit and replace it with a finer threaded one like a Super Tiger, if they have one that interchanges. But I don't have any Super Tigers with that setup to try. Thanks for any help!

jaka

Hello!
The SAITO is not made to run on gas!!!!
The main problem is the big end on the connecting rod. Most modelengines uses a plain bearing, not a needlebearing! And this is a weak spot.
I would suddjest that you run on ordinary glowfuel,
I have done this, and so have several of my friends, with excellent results.
The problem with gas is that it will produce much more heat than glow and our modelengines( most of them) are not made to cope with that, at least if you want to get serious power and not just put,put around in the sky on low power!


Regards!
Jan K
Sweden

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

With all of the interest shown in flying a gas/oil fueled four-stroke engine, you would think that some manufacturer would go ahead and make one available to we modelers. I know I would like to have one if the price, size, weight and power were within reason. I wouldn't mind running premix gas/oil to do so.

pda4you

Well - this may put out a bit more power than your Saito 1.80 on gas, but here is your 4 stoke gasser...

http://www.rcshowcase.com/rcs215.htm

RCS 215cc 5 cylinder gas engine. Download the clip - too cool.

Let's see now all you need is a 33% Stearman to bolt it too - O and a bit o cash!

Mike

Eagle Flyer

My Feedback: (84)

Well I found that a ST needle fits the saito carb thread. I was told that ST was the only company with threads fine enough to give the minute adjustments needed with gas. Is this an instance when "they" were all wrong? But if the seat angle and width works with this needle then this should take care of that aspect of the conversion. Will try it out on my standard saito 180 and compare needle adjustment sensitivity. It's a much finer pointed needle. Now I need to find someone that can manufacture a needle bearing on both ends rod for me and rebalance the engine assembly. And harden the crank rod journal or modify it in some way to do so. Any ideas? I like a challenge and trying to prove that "it" can be done especialy when others say it can't. I built a gasoline powered pedal tractor for my son when he was 3. Nobody had ever heard of one of those, so what do you suppose "they"all said? Put in a 16cc weedeater engine. wasn't all that hard to do, just took time to figure it all out and find proper resources. I realize at this point it is not financially a gain. But that's not the idea behind the project. Any ideas or input is appreciated. Thanks; Jim

captinjohn

Eagle Flyer: You may be able to adapt a small wabro type carb and solve 2 problems. It will handle gas and has a neat pump so the engine will run at a more precise fuel mixture at all times, regarless of fuel tank position. For the rod ....take a photo of it and give the dimensions of it also and have the data ready to email to various helpers of project. The crank I think can be case hardened. I hope more people can help. It is too bad that most RC persons think such an engine has to be a race type engine. I think there would be lots of us happy to have a good sounding 4 stroke gas engine that is cheap to run. Good luck in your project. Captinjohn P.S. Start a thread in Giant engines also 1.8 is a big engine

Pepe J

My Feedback: (2)

Hello Gentlemen,

Sounds much easier to modify for a Walbro as Capt.J suggested.
As for the ConRod. and not knowing the available needle bearings and their dimensions, another alternative would be to "sleeve" the crankpin and wristpin? There is not much clearance in the 1.8 with the case already relieved for the conrod to go "up" in bearing sizes. The conrod bosses are getting thin as it is. Going "down" in size is maybe the only alternative here and that it is not recommended in my opinion?
I think the 1.8 maybe a bad choice to modify? This thing has been punched, pulled & stretched to the MAX!
I'm not trying to deter you here. Do your home work and see what bearing sizes are available and go from there. Good Luck.

Happy Fly'n....

tkg

My Feedback: (1)

If you can find some one to make a adapter/ new intake manifold. Walboro has a special carb for 4c engines. The pump works off the pulses in the intake manifold, not the crankcase. I think its a WT-456, its off the orginal Ryobi 26cc 4c weedie.
Good luck

Corkscrew-RCU

Curious as to how this project is progressing. Any news to report, Eagle Flyer?

Ernie Misner

There was an article in MAN a few years ago that discussed converting glow engines to gasoline. For sure they said that converting any engine smaller than a 90 or so was not practical because of the power to weight ratio with the added ignition and slightly lower power output on gas. So the 180 should be a good contender for this project. I really don't remember them mentioning anything about having trouble with the rod bearings though.

Anyone have that old article???

Ernie

4 stroken ron

My Feedback: (29)

It will work OK if you can get the st needle in and if it is threaded fine enough, and if you use about 30% oil in the fuel to lube the plain bearing rod, and if you keep it rich enough to keep the heat down. Of course you won't have much power.
Ron

jetfighter

Hello I have a 1.80 also and was very interested in converting to gas also. Then came the Saito FG-36 Gas engine, check it out. Take a look at the parts list. I believe the 1.80 and the 220 are the same block. The 220 is the comparble of the FG-36.f Tell me if I'm wrong but this is the missing link.

Ernie Misner

Boy is this an old thread!

Let us know how you are progressing with that project. Should be interesting.

Ernie

Jezmo

Now that this thread has been dredged up I would like to add a few notes to the thread to keep the confusion down. 30% oil is NOT necessary nor are the needle bearings on the rod. (Saito isn't using needles on the FG36) I am running my Saito 91 on Gasoline/Spark and I am running it at 32:1 and have now gotten about 25 hrs. on it with no problems at all. On 15% glow fuel it turned a MAS 14X6 9900 and on Gas it turns the exact same prop 9400 for an approximate loss of 12-14% HP. It pulls my Big Stick 60 around with plenty of authority although at WOT the power to weight is about 1:1. It throttles excellent with no mods to the stock glow carb, however the needles are just a tad sensitive. It takes a little more effort to get it tuned but once tuned I never have to mess with the needles. (I'm talking about not retuning for weeks or more.) It runs about 35 to 40 minutes on 10oz. of fuel running it pretty hard.

jetfighter

Wow Jesmo that is the info I think everyone is looking for.What did you do about spark plug? Did you tap it out for a spark plug.
Did you reseal the carb with dIfferent o-rings. What spark system did you use?

Jezmo

It has a 1/4X32 Rimfire spark plug in it, CH-Ignitions CDI, and no mods were made to the carb O-Ring or other wise. CH supplied the Hall Effect sensor, sensor mount, and magnet ring w/magnet. Also, the plug was purchased from them.

Edited to add link: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7282593/tm.htm

kiosk

My Feedback: (14)

well i bought mine....Saito FG36 GAS....expensive investment but sips almost nothing and runs like a dream

onewasp

How does it fly and in what?

You know, the usual questions as to weight , area, type, prop size(s) flown etc.
It is an interesting possibility, but then comes the question: In what?

Aerobatic ship?
I can visualize scale easily enough as well as sport flying. It is the aerobatic aspect as compared to the 2 cycle 26's that poses the biggest question for me.
Example: Quique's 73" performs with a 26 but marginally so. This might be just enough _____ or more of the same performance level.

Allensale

My Feedback: (3)

Did you have to preasurize the gas tank? If so, how?

Kostas1

Any news ?

Jezmo

Yes, I do use muffler pressure on my 91 (it still uses the stock glow carb) although the FG-14, FG-20, and FG36 have "pump" style carbs and shoudn't need any tank pressure. This 91 has been running gas for about 2 years now with no problems.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I've found that the Tygon will last about ten seconds on the muffler nipple. But silicone fuel tubing holds up just fine. Run a short length of silicone tubing before you change to Tygon for the pressure line.

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

Or, cut off an eighth (3.2 mm) of Silicone, and slide it over the Tygon in the pressure nipple to "clamp" it in place.

Kostas1

So,

a SAITO FA-91 will run just fine on gas but a 180 won't ?

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

A 180 and in your case a 150 will also run pretty good on gas.

But I want to warn you guys that Jezmo has worked with all kinds of engines all his life and is very good at tuning them.

If you are interested in converting Saito's or other engines to gasoline, You better be studying up on installing an ignition and carburetion system and then be prepared to play with it some to get it worked out.