Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
03-11-2009, 08:05 PM
#203
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: w8ye
I like what Bob has written - I go along with that
I like what Bob has written - I go along with that
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in proceedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a proceedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES PROCEEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
03-12-2009, 07:16 AM
#205
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES PROCEEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
03-12-2009, 08:36 AM
#206
Senior Member
Thread Starter
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES PROCEEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES PROCEEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
Which of the following two (both from OS) do you think should be followed, (1) or (2)?
1. [link=http://manuals.hobbico.com/osm/50sx-40-46-61-91fx-manual.pdf]The manual[/link], which says:
"Run the engine for one minute with the throttle fully open, but with the needlevalve adjusted for rich, slow "four-cycle" operation.
Now close the needle-valve until the engine speeds up to "two-cycle" operation and allow it to run for about 10 seconds, then reopen the needlevalve
to bring the engine back to "fourcycle" operation and run it for another 10 seconds.
Repeat this procedure until the fuel tank is empty."
2. [link=http://osengines.com/faq/product-faq.html#q2]The US dealer's Q&A page[/link], which says:
"Your ABN engine must be broken-in at full throttle. You don't want to run it too rich. Too- rich running will not allow it to warm to proper temperatures, so the liner does not get properly seated. Lean it until it is running just out of what is known as "four-cycle" mode, then gradually work leaner with each run. You can lean it to peak RPM as soon as the engine will accept it.
You should prop your engine to allow higher RPM. ABN engines work better at higher RPM. You should also use a fuel that contains castor oil in the lubrication mix. Castor oil helps the engine run well and is the better lubricant for our ABN engines. All-synthetic fuels have been known to cause difficulties in running at times.
Once properly broken-in, your ABN-type engine will serve you well and deliver lots of reliable performance."
The first does not even differentiate between ringed and ABC/ABN engines, so it was probably not written for the later?
I have absolutely no doubt which of the two is better for ABC/ABN engines... "Cross at the green; not in between."... But on this Internet forum, I recommend 25% oil, which is even better; along with exclusively two-cycle, rich running.
03-12-2009, 09:12 AM
#207
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
I would trust the manufacturer's manual. They built the engine and know the metalurgy and properties of the components. If you follow the manual and something catastrophic happens, then you have a case.
03-12-2009, 10:25 AM
#208
Senior Member
Thread Starter
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: controlliner
I would trust the manufacturer's manual. They built the engine and know the metallurgy and properties of the components.
If you follow the manual and something catastrophic happens, then you have a case.
I would trust the manufacturer's manual. They built the engine and know the metallurgy and properties of the components.
If you follow the manual and something catastrophic happens, then you have a case.
Please read this thread from its beginning.
The problem is that doing the break-in incorrectly; as the manual suggests, will rarely result in a catastrophic failure...
In fact, the engine will likely last its warranty period...
But it will never be optimized; not for optimal longevity and not for ultimate power.
If an engine that can, with a correct break-in (as appears in this thread), last for 400 hours; will only endure 40 hours, following the 'manufacturer's recommended' break-in procedure; I regard it as a failure; while others may see it is a success, because the engine did not fail before the warranty expired...
An engine should last as long as possible, yet some manufacturers see it as less beneficial for them, if it lasts that long, since they thrive on you buying a new engine every couple of years...
I am right. They are wrong. It is as simple as that.
03-12-2009, 10:39 AM
#210
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
CL,
Please read this thread from its beginning.
The problem is that doing the break-in incorrectly; as the manual suggests, will rarely result in a catastrophic failure...
In fact, the engine will likely last its warranty period...
But it will never be optimized; not for optimal longevity and not for ultimate power.
If an engine that can, with a correct break-in (as appears in this thread), last for 400 hours; will only endure 40 hours, following the 'manufacturer's recommended' break-in procedure; I regard it as a failure; while others may see it is a success, because the engine did not fail before the warranty expired...
An engine should last as long as possible, yet some manufacturers see it as less beneficial for them, if it lasts that long, since they thrive on you buying a new engine every couple of years...
I am right. They are wrong. It is as simple as that.
ORIGINAL: controlliner
I would trust the manufacturer's manual. They built the engine and know the metallurgy and properties of the components.
If you follow the manual and something catastrophic happens, then you have a case.
I would trust the manufacturer's manual. They built the engine and know the metallurgy and properties of the components.
If you follow the manual and something catastrophic happens, then you have a case.
Please read this thread from its beginning.
The problem is that doing the break-in incorrectly; as the manual suggests, will rarely result in a catastrophic failure...
In fact, the engine will likely last its warranty period...
But it will never be optimized; not for optimal longevity and not for ultimate power.
If an engine that can, with a correct break-in (as appears in this thread), last for 400 hours; will only endure 40 hours, following the 'manufacturer's recommended' break-in procedure; I regard it as a failure; while others may see it is a success, because the engine did not fail before the warranty expired...
An engine should last as long as possible, yet some manufacturers see it as less beneficial for them, if it lasts that long, since they thrive on you buying a new engine every couple of years...
I am right. They are wrong. It is as simple as that.
Or not. This forum should require an open mind
I have a Traxxas 2.5R in my T - Maxx with 42+ liters of Morgan's Omega 10% run through it including following MFGR's break in proceedure. The pinch is just starting to go on this engine but the lower end con rod bushing still has an intimate fit and the upper end has no discernable play either. I believe in what the manufacturer has to say on how to break in an engine. I just choose to use a different fuel than reccommended. I stand by my actual results rather than theory. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but the opinion should not be forced.
03-12-2009, 11:44 AM
#211
Senior Member
Thread Starter
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: controlliner
Then you need to tell the engine manufacturers that you know better than them, maybe they will hire you Or not.
Then you need to tell the engine manufacturers that you know better than them, maybe they will hire you
Or not. Those I criticize will probably not...
Their 'manifest destiny' is probably too different from mine.
This forum should require an open mind
I have a Traxxas 2.5R in my T - Maxx with 42+ liters of Morgan's Omega 10% run through it, including following MFGR's break in procedure. The pinch is just starting to go on this engine, but the lower end con-rod bushing still has an intimate fit and the upper end has no discernible play either. I believe in what the manufacturer has to say on how to break in an engine. I just choose to use a different fuel than recommended. I stand by my actual results, rather than theory. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but the opinion should not be forced.
Most who contributed in past threads, regarding car engines, reported a 3-4 gallon P+L set life, with the recommended 'wet' break-in, compared to ~12 gallons, with the two-cycle, extra oil break-in procedure described in this thread.
As to keeping an open mind; some may 'regard this as an 'open dust-bin', ready to receive any 'garbage' thrown into it.
If one does keep his mind open, he must exercise caution as well...
...And some other things ARE absolute and are never open to discussion.
03-12-2009, 01:18 PM
#212
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
The pinch is just starting to go on this engine but the lower end con rod bushing still has an intimate fit and the upper end has no discernable play either.
03-12-2009, 01:44 PM
#213
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in proceedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a proceedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES PROCEEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES PROCEEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
03-12-2009, 01:52 PM
#214
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RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
Remember that although engineers design and build engines, it's probably *not* an engineer that writes the manual.
This means that even companies such as OS are open to mistakes. It's much cheaper to recycle parts of last year's manual (for a ringed engine in a steel bore) when creating a document to go with this year's ABN engine hence we end up with the *wrong* information being disseminated.
Even OS has to keep an eye on costs and it would appear that in the case cited by Dar, that's probably why the manufacturer's manual is so very wrong in some respects.
Remember OS is the company that bought you peeling liners (because their engineers didn't understand the electroless nickel-plating process they were using) the FL70, and 4-strokes with peeling camshafts.
They are not infallible and I think the break-in procedure outlined in the manual is further proof of that fact.
This means that even companies such as OS are open to mistakes. It's much cheaper to recycle parts of last year's manual (for a ringed engine in a steel bore) when creating a document to go with this year's ABN engine hence we end up with the *wrong* information being disseminated.
Even OS has to keep an eye on costs and it would appear that in the case cited by Dar, that's probably why the manufacturer's manual is so very wrong in some respects.
Remember OS is the company that bought you peeling liners (because their engineers didn't understand the electroless nickel-plating process they were using) the FL70, and 4-strokes with peeling camshafts.
They are not infallible and I think the break-in procedure outlined in the manual is further proof of that fact.
03-12-2009, 02:19 PM
#215
Senior Member
Thread Starter
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
ORIGINAL: w8ye
I like what Bob has written - I go along with that
I like what Bob has written - I go along with that
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
Please read Bruce's (XJet) post, just below your last one.
It will help you better understand why things you read in 'official' documents the manufacturers distribute, could sometimes be ignored; to be replaced by better things from other sources.
03-12-2009, 03:12 PM
#216
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
BW,
I believe you are in a repetitive mood today, no?
A mantra, perhaps?
Please read Bruce's (XJet) post, just below your last one.
It will help you better understand why things you read in 'official' documents the manufacturers distribute, could sometimes be ignored; to be replaced by better things from other sources.
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
ORIGINAL: w8ye
I like what Bob has written - I go along with that
I like what Bob has written - I go along with that
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
I believe you are in a repetitive mood today, no?
A mantra, perhaps?
Please read Bruce's (XJet) post, just below your last one.
It will help you better understand why things you read in 'official' documents the manufacturers distribute, could sometimes be ignored; to be replaced by better things from other sources.
All you have to do is go back and read some of your posts and it's obvious that you're not very fond of OS Engines. (Would you like me to post a few of your remarks?) Maybe it's because OS is putting MVVS in a tight spot, seeing as how they (MVVS) are dropping the majority of the glow engines and going to "High Calibre Electrics" and "Gasoline Engines".
I really don't care because I don't own any MVVS products and have no plans to purchase any.
I feel that it's bad form, as a "distributor" to negatively comment on your compedtitors products. You beat the competition by making better products not by bad mouthing thier products. Just like OS did with MVVS.
03-12-2009, 03:17 PM
#217
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
I think I'll pass on any information that you distribute. After all, You're "supposedly" a stocking dealer for MVVS, Rossi, Jett, etc. I've asked Dubb and he has no knowledge of an Israeli distributor of his products.....Did he forget about you?
All you have to do is go back and read some of your posts and it's obvious that you're not very fond of OS Engines. (Would you like me to post a few of your remarks?) Maybe it's because OS is putting MVVS in a tight spot, seeing as how they (MVVS) are dropping the majority of the glow engines and going to "High Calibre Electrics" and "Gasoline Engines".
I really don't care because I don't own any MVVS products and have no plans to purchase any.
I feel that it's bad form, as a "distributor" to negatively comment on your compedtitors products. You beat the competition by making better products not by bad mouthing thier products. Just like OS did with MVVS.
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
BW,
I believe you are in a repetitive mood today, no?
A mantra, perhaps?
Please read Bruce's (XJet) post, just below your last one.
It will help you better understand why things you read in 'official' documents the manufacturers distribute, could sometimes be ignored; to be replaced by better things from other sources.
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
ORIGINAL: w8ye
I like what Bob has written - I go along with that
I like what Bob has written - I go along with that
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
I believe you are in a repetitive mood today, no?
A mantra, perhaps?
Please read Bruce's (XJet) post, just below your last one.
It will help you better understand why things you read in 'official' documents the manufacturers distribute, could sometimes be ignored; to be replaced by better things from other sources.
All you have to do is go back and read some of your posts and it's obvious that you're not very fond of OS Engines. (Would you like me to post a few of your remarks?) Maybe it's because OS is putting MVVS in a tight spot, seeing as how they (MVVS) are dropping the majority of the glow engines and going to "High Calibre Electrics" and "Gasoline Engines".
I really don't care because I don't own any MVVS products and have no plans to purchase any.
I feel that it's bad form, as a "distributor" to negatively comment on your compedtitors products. You beat the competition by making better products not by bad mouthing thier products. Just like OS did with MVVS.
03-12-2009, 07:44 PM
#218
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: controlliner
Touche'
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
I think I'll pass on any information that you distribute. After all, You're "supposedly" a stocking dealer for MVVS, Rossi, Jett, etc. I've asked Dubb and he has no knowledge of an Israeli distributor of his products.....Did he forget about you?
All you have to do is go back and read some of your posts and it's obvious that you're not very fond of OS Engines. (Would you like me to post a few of your remarks?) Maybe it's because OS is putting MVVS in a tight spot, seeing as how they (MVVS) are dropping the majority of the glow engines and going to "High Calibre Electrics" and "Gasoline Engines".
I really don't care because I don't own any MVVS products and have no plans to purchase any.
I feel that it's bad form, as a "distributor" to negatively comment on your compedtitors products. You beat the competition by making better products not by bad mouthing thier products. Just like OS did with MVVS.
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
BW,
I believe you are in a repetitive mood today, no?
A mantra, perhaps?
Please read Bruce's (XJet) post, just below your last one.
It will help you better understand why things you read in 'official' documents the manufacturers distribute, could sometimes be ignored; to be replaced by better things from other sources.
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
ORIGINAL: w8ye
I like what Bob has written - I go along with that
I like what Bob has written - I go along with that
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
I believe you are in a repetitive mood today, no?
A mantra, perhaps?
Please read Bruce's (XJet) post, just below your last one.
It will help you better understand why things you read in 'official' documents the manufacturers distribute, could sometimes be ignored; to be replaced by better things from other sources.
All you have to do is go back and read some of your posts and it's obvious that you're not very fond of OS Engines. (Would you like me to post a few of your remarks?) Maybe it's because OS is putting MVVS in a tight spot, seeing as how they (MVVS) are dropping the majority of the glow engines and going to "High Calibre Electrics" and "Gasoline Engines".
I really don't care because I don't own any MVVS products and have no plans to purchase any.
I feel that it's bad form, as a "distributor" to negatively comment on your compedtitors products. You beat the competition by making better products not by bad mouthing thier products. Just like OS did with MVVS.
Did I say something wrong?
Why was my post deleted?
03-12-2009, 08:30 PM
#219
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
I think that the best break-in method for an ABC/ABN engine was given by Dave Gierke somewhere around 2004 in MAN. He too into account the metallurgy and 'pinch' at the top of the cylinder. He approached the break-in very scientifically.
His main concern was not to run the engine too sloppy... the cylinder would never heat up properly and there would be excessive wear in that 'pinch' area. Instead, he opted for several runs of about 30 seconds or so on the rich side of peak (but not slobbering rich) then he would peak the engine for about 10 seconds, then shut it down and allow it to cool.
I believe he extended the 30-second runs till they were a few minutes long. I wish I had scanned that old article. It was a keeper. That was 5 years ago and I'd like to read it again. Does anyone else recall it?
Bob
His main concern was not to run the engine too sloppy... the cylinder would never heat up properly and there would be excessive wear in that 'pinch' area. Instead, he opted for several runs of about 30 seconds or so on the rich side of peak (but not slobbering rich) then he would peak the engine for about 10 seconds, then shut it down and allow it to cool.
I believe he extended the 30-second runs till they were a few minutes long. I wish I had scanned that old article. It was a keeper. That was 5 years ago and I'd like to read it again. Does anyone else recall it?
Bob
03-12-2009, 09:02 PM
#220
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
BW,
Which of the following two (both from OS) do you think should be followed, (1) or (2)?
1. [link=http://manuals.hobbico.com/osm/50sx-40-46-61-91fx-manual.pdf]The manual[/link], which says:
"Run the engine for one minute with the throttle fully open, but with the needlevalve adjusted for rich, slow "four-cycle" operation.
Now close the needle-valve until the engine speeds up to "two-cycle" operation and allow it to run for about 10 seconds, then reopen the needlevalve
to bring the engine back to "fourcycle" operation and run it for another 10 seconds.
Repeat this procedure until the fuel tank is empty."
2. [link=http://osengines.com/faq/product-faq.html#q2]The US dealer's Q&A page[/link], which says:
"Your ABN engine must be broken-in at full throttle. You don't want to run it too rich. Too- rich running will not allow it to warm to proper temperatures, so the liner does not get properly seated. Lean it until it is running just out of what is known as "four-cycle" mode, then gradually work leaner with each run. You can lean it to peak RPM as soon as the engine will accept it.
You should prop your engine to allow higher RPM. ABN engines work better at higher RPM. You should also use a fuel that contains castor oil in the lubrication mix. Castor oil helps the engine run well and is the better lubricant for our ABN engines. All-synthetic fuels have been known to cause difficulties in running at times.
Once properly broken-in, your ABN-type engine will serve you well and deliver lots of reliable performance."
The first does not even differentiate between ringed and ABC/ABN engines, so it was probably not written for the later?
I have absolutely no doubt which of the two is better for ABC/ABN engines... "Cross at the green; not in between."... But on this Internet forum, I recommend 25% oil, which is even better; along with exclusively two-cycle, rich running.
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES PROCEEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES PROCEEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
Which of the following two (both from OS) do you think should be followed, (1) or (2)?
1. [link=http://manuals.hobbico.com/osm/50sx-40-46-61-91fx-manual.pdf]The manual[/link], which says:
"Run the engine for one minute with the throttle fully open, but with the needlevalve adjusted for rich, slow "four-cycle" operation.
Now close the needle-valve until the engine speeds up to "two-cycle" operation and allow it to run for about 10 seconds, then reopen the needlevalve
to bring the engine back to "fourcycle" operation and run it for another 10 seconds.
Repeat this procedure until the fuel tank is empty."
2. [link=http://osengines.com/faq/product-faq.html#q2]The US dealer's Q&A page[/link], which says:
"Your ABN engine must be broken-in at full throttle. You don't want to run it too rich. Too- rich running will not allow it to warm to proper temperatures, so the liner does not get properly seated. Lean it until it is running just out of what is known as "four-cycle" mode, then gradually work leaner with each run. You can lean it to peak RPM as soon as the engine will accept it.
You should prop your engine to allow higher RPM. ABN engines work better at higher RPM. You should also use a fuel that contains castor oil in the lubrication mix. Castor oil helps the engine run well and is the better lubricant for our ABN engines. All-synthetic fuels have been known to cause difficulties in running at times.
Once properly broken-in, your ABN-type engine will serve you well and deliver lots of reliable performance."
The first does not even differentiate between ringed and ABC/ABN engines, so it was probably not written for the later?
I have absolutely no doubt which of the two is better for ABC/ABN engines... "Cross at the green; not in between."... But on this Internet forum, I recommend 25% oil, which is even better; along with exclusively two-cycle, rich running.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1890371/tm.htm
03-12-2009, 09:16 PM
#221
RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Please read Bruce's (XJet) post, just below your last one.
It will help you better understand why things you read in 'official' documents the manufacturers distribute, could sometimes be ignored; to be replaced by better things from other sources.
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
ORIGINAL: w8ye
I like what Bob has written - I go along with that
I like what Bob has written - I go along with that
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
"There is some good and bad information out there about break in procedures for ABC type engines...... some info is a mixture of both. In general, a procedure outline by an engine manufacturer should be followed as written."
I think the above quote sums it up. FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURES' PROCEDURES!!!!!! NOT what you read on internet forums.
Please read Bruce's (XJet) post, just below your last one.
It will help you better understand why things you read in 'official' documents the manufacturers distribute, could sometimes be ignored; to be replaced by better things from other sources.
04-09-2009, 05:20 AM
#222
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RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
...........
Step 1. Fuel with 25% oil, at least 40% if which is Castor oil. No more than 10% nitro in sport engines.
Step 2. Start rich and lean ASAP to a rich, two-cycle setting at full throttle, for 15-20 minutes.
Step 3. Try to lean to maximum RPM. If it holds that RPM, without sagging at all for 60 seconds, you're done.
Step 4. ...If it sags any (not small fluctuations), give it 5 more minutes at a rich, two-cycle setting at full throttle.
Step 5. Repeat starting from Step 3.
......
...........
Step 1. Fuel with 25% oil, at least 40% if which is Castor oil. No more than 10% nitro in sport engines.
Step 2. Start rich and lean ASAP to a rich, two-cycle setting at full throttle, for 15-20 minutes.
Step 3. Try to lean to maximum RPM. If it holds that RPM, without sagging at all for 60 seconds, you're done.
Step 4. ...If it sags any (not small fluctuations), give it 5 more minutes at a rich, two-cycle setting at full throttle.
Step 5. Repeat starting from Step 3.
......
Is there any issue with running an entire gallon of 25%-oil fuel through the new engine (other having a more messy plane)?
Cheers
P.S. Great thread. I really appreciate it when the exact reasons are given in detail for why the suggested steps are what they are. Thanks Dar.
04-09-2009, 06:00 AM
#223
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RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
CS - this calculator should help with your quest to custom blend a 25% oil fuel - it allows you to mix any quantity you want, starting with whatever "base" fuel you have, to get your desired oil content. No need to mix (and run) a whole gallon of 25% oil! Although it wouldn't hurt anything to run a gallon on your plane... it would be a tad bit messy. [:'(]
http://www.nitrorc.com/fuelws/
Hope this helps,
-Joe
http://www.nitrorc.com/fuelws/
Hope this helps,
-Joe
04-09-2009, 07:18 AM
#224
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RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: ProBroJoe
CS - this calculator should help with your quest to custom blend a 25% oil fuel - it allows you to mix any quantity you want, starting with whatever "base" fuel you have, to get your desired oil content. No need to mix (and run) a whole gallon of 25% oil! Although it wouldn't hurt anything to run a gallon on your plane... it would be a tad bit messy. [:'(]
http://www.nitrorc.com/fuelws/
Hope this helps,
-Joe
CS - this calculator should help with your quest to custom blend a 25% oil fuel - it allows you to mix any quantity you want, starting with whatever "base" fuel you have, to get your desired oil content. No need to mix (and run) a whole gallon of 25% oil! Although it wouldn't hurt anything to run a gallon on your plane... it would be a tad bit messy. [:'(]
http://www.nitrorc.com/fuelws/
Hope this helps,
-Joe
ed: Just a correction to the above. For the above results, I accidently input 20% instead of 25% oil in case you're wondering... oops
In any case, I can quickly see from the nitrorc calculator that I can easily make a fuel mix of much less than a gallon. That's good... less mess Cheers
04-09-2009, 09:05 AM
#225
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RE: Tapered-Bore Engine Break-in - Upgraded
ORIGINAL: CloudSkipper
Is there any issue with running an entire gallon of 25%-oil fuel through the new engine (other having a more messy plane)?
Is there any issue with running an entire gallon of 25%-oil fuel through the new engine (other having a more messy plane)?
In the first post I stated the break-in should be performed on a test-stand.
It can either be a commercially available built-for-the-purpose item, or a makeshift unit made from a 1"x4" plank of wood, with notches and holes to safely mount your engine.
There are several reasons for not performing this procedure on your model...
One is a greater physical risk to your model, since new engines are sometimes difficult to start... You don't want your new model to take the punishment of those futile starting attempts, until you get a good starting setting...
Another is that this goo you will be feeding the engine during the break-in, will compromise reliability beyond the engine's 'newness'...
This is THE reason I would never recommend initial break-in to be done in flight.
'Better cooling in flight' sounds like something a bull leaves behind it... It is just as good to use a prop with a 1" smaller diameter.
And, you have immediate mixture control, that you obviously don't have, if your plane is in flight...
Just break it in on the stand and then mount it in the model and fly normally.
That oil-rich fuel can cause no damage whatsoever to your new engine.