Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
10-16-2004, 10:19 PM
#1
Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
I was at the International Hobby Expo in Chicago this weekend. I saw some interesting engines at the Dave Patrick booth. According to Dave himself "they are made in Hungary". To me they looked very much like a Moki. But he says they are not Moki brand engines. They have a Dave Patrick logo on a blue anodized head. Other features: a high end needle angled away from the prop, and a nice little retainer clip for the low end dial that like to pop off sometimes. He says that they are made especially for him. They are designed to run on up to 15% nitro. He said that the compression ratio is a little lower and the ring has a little more tolerance in it to handle higher nitro.
Joe
Joe
10-17-2004, 01:36 AM
#2
Senior Member
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort
...They are designed to run on up to 15% nitro. He said that the compression ratio is a little lower and the ring has a little more tolerance in it to handle higher nitro.
Joe
...They are designed to run on up to 15% nitro. He said that the compression ratio is a little lower and the ring has a little more tolerance in it to handle higher nitro.
Joe
Since the guy said these Dave Patrick engines are NOT Moki based, the compression is a little lower, compared to what???
Think about it.
With the Hungarian source, it must still be an improved, adapted Moki...
10-17-2004, 08:55 AM
#4
Senior Member
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
Brian,
I did think about it.
Joe wrote this Dave Patrick engine closely resembles the Moki.
It has a similar carburettor with the needle angled back, but with an additional retainer for the idle dial (since Moki's pops off)...
It does have the blue anodized head, with the Dave Patrick logo, but isn't it just a rose by any other name?
I did think about it.
Joe wrote this Dave Patrick engine closely resembles the Moki.
It has a similar carburettor with the needle angled back, but with an additional retainer for the idle dial (since Moki's pops off)...
It does have the blue anodized head, with the Dave Patrick logo, but isn't it just a rose by any other name?
10-17-2004, 09:20 AM
#5
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Joe,
Since the guy said these Dave Patrick engines are NOT Moki based, the compression is a little lower, compared to what???
Think about it.
With the Hungarian source, it must still be an improved, adapted Moki...
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort
...They are designed to run on up to 15% nitro. He said that the compression ratio is a little lower and the ring has a little more tolerance in it to handle higher nitro.
Joe
...They are designed to run on up to 15% nitro. He said that the compression ratio is a little lower and the ring has a little more tolerance in it to handle higher nitro.
Joe
Since the guy said these Dave Patrick engines are NOT Moki based, the compression is a little lower, compared to what???
Think about it.
With the Hungarian source, it must still be an improved, adapted Moki...
10-18-2004, 02:40 PM
#7
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RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
I went to Dave Patrick's website and, sure enough, there was a dead ringer for a Moki 2.10 staring me right in the eyes. The price is pretty good, too! And, oddly enough, the site says that there will be a 1.35 and 1.80 released in the near future. Coincidence? I think not!
Now, the only question in my mind concerns the advantages / disadvantages to having the ability to run 15% nitro. As the Moki's are noted for their fuel consumption, do we really want to pay $20-plus bucks a gallon for 15% nitro fuel as opposed to FAI fuel for about half that? I would have to be convinced that there is a definate advantage to the Patrick engine and it's nitro diet before plopping down my bucks. However, Mr. Patrick does have a great reputation and I'm sure he has his reasons for requesting this modification.
This should prove interesting!
Al
Now, the only question in my mind concerns the advantages / disadvantages to having the ability to run 15% nitro. As the Moki's are noted for their fuel consumption, do we really want to pay $20-plus bucks a gallon for 15% nitro fuel as opposed to FAI fuel for about half that? I would have to be convinced that there is a definate advantage to the Patrick engine and it's nitro diet before plopping down my bucks. However, Mr. Patrick does have a great reputation and I'm sure he has his reasons for requesting this modification.
This should prove interesting!
Al
10-18-2004, 03:28 PM
#8
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
ORIGINAL: rrudytoo
I went to Dave Patrick's website and, sure enough, there was a dead ringer for a Moki 2.10 staring me right in the eyes. The price is pretty good, too! And, oddly enough, the site says that there will be a 1.35 and 1.80 released in the near future. Coincidence? I think not!
Now, the only question in my mind concerns the advantages / disadvantages to having the ability to run 15% nitro. As the Moki's are noted for their fuel consumption, do we really want to pay $20-plus bucks a gallon for 15% nitro fuel as opposed to FAI fuel for about half that? I would have to be convinced that there is a definate advantage to the Patrick engine and it's nitro diet before plopping down my bucks. However, Mr. Patrick does have a great reputation and I'm sure he has his reasons for requesting this modification.
This should prove interesting!
Al
I went to Dave Patrick's website and, sure enough, there was a dead ringer for a Moki 2.10 staring me right in the eyes. The price is pretty good, too! And, oddly enough, the site says that there will be a 1.35 and 1.80 released in the near future. Coincidence? I think not!
Now, the only question in my mind concerns the advantages / disadvantages to having the ability to run 15% nitro. As the Moki's are noted for their fuel consumption, do we really want to pay $20-plus bucks a gallon for 15% nitro fuel as opposed to FAI fuel for about half that? I would have to be convinced that there is a definate advantage to the Patrick engine and it's nitro diet before plopping down my bucks. However, Mr. Patrick does have a great reputation and I'm sure he has his reasons for requesting this modification.
This should prove interesting!
Al
10-19-2004, 08:43 AM
#9
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RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
I can see where that may be a good idea. I have Saitos that like Nitro. My OS 160 doesn't need it. My Moki and Laser can not use it. I only want to stock one blend of fuel so its 5%. If I did not have the Laser or Moki I could use 15% in every motor.
10-19-2004, 09:23 AM
#10
Senior Member
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
For some reason, some modelers regard stocking more than one type of fuel a terrible inconvenience.
What could be so bothersome in taking two jugs of fuel with you?
You don't use the same fuel in your Ford Powerstroke Diesel pickup and in your Honda Accord family car, so why do you want to force all your model engines to accept the same drink?
A big engine and high nitro is a gallon a week (of pretty expensive fuel) for just three flights...
A big Moki on 0-5% nitro only uses an ounce a minute.
What could be so bothersome in taking two jugs of fuel with you?
You don't use the same fuel in your Ford Powerstroke Diesel pickup and in your Honda Accord family car, so why do you want to force all your model engines to accept the same drink?
A big engine and high nitro is a gallon a week (of pretty expensive fuel) for just three flights...
A big Moki on 0-5% nitro only uses an ounce a minute.
10-19-2004, 11:07 AM
#12
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
You don't use the same fuel in your Ford Powerstroke Diesel pickup and in your Honda Accord family car, so why do you want to force all your model engines to accept the same drink?
You don't use the same fuel in your Ford Powerstroke Diesel pickup and in your Honda Accord family car, so why do you want to force all your model engines to accept the same drink?
I've carried 5% and 15% to the field, but that's was due to me breaking in a Moki 2.10 (5%). For the most part, I bring 15% and run all my motors on it....ST's (Italian & China), West 50, Jetts, GMS, OS, Magnum......
I'm in the Market for another 2.10, may have to give the DP motor a looksie...
Gary
10-19-2004, 12:44 PM
#13
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
I'm amazed that people would prefer a version of the Moki that requires HIGHER nitro. The standard engine runs beautifully and makes a TON of power on 0 to 5% fuel - why mess with that?
Oh what, they say it's "inconvenient" stocking 2 types of fuel??? I guess there really is a sucker born every minute.....
Oh what, they say it's "inconvenient" stocking 2 types of fuel??? I guess there really is a sucker born every minute.....
10-19-2004, 01:36 PM
#14
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
ORIGINAL: LuvBipes
I'm amazed that people would prefer a version of the Moki that requires HIGHER nitro. The standard engine runs beautifully and makes a TON of power on 0 to 5% fuel - why mess with that?
Oh what, they say it's "inconvenient" stocking 2 types of fuel??? I guess there really is a sucker born every minute.....
I'm amazed that people would prefer a version of the Moki that requires HIGHER nitro. The standard engine runs beautifully and makes a TON of power on 0 to 5% fuel - why mess with that?
Oh what, they say it's "inconvenient" stocking 2 types of fuel??? I guess there really is a sucker born every minute.....
If I had to worry 'bout a buck here, or a couple bucks over there....I sure as hell wouldn't be in this hobby.
If I want convenience, I don't mind paying for it.
Try to contain your "amazement"...
Gary
10-19-2004, 02:00 PM
#15
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
I guess it all depends how you do things in this hobby. The way I do it, I only take one plane with me to the field so I only need one gallon of fuel. I use three types of fuel: Morgan FAI, Morgan 15%, and WildCat 30%. So when I go to the field I just grab the gallon I need and put it in my field box. For me it's a total luxury to be able to use inexpensive FAI fuel in a big engine like the Moki 1.80. The fuel economy is unreal for the raw power output you get. I'd rather use one fuel type but it's not that big of a deal for me.
Personally I'll take the Moki over the Dave Patrick brand engines but that's because FAI fuel is easy for me to get.
Personally I'll take the Moki over the Dave Patrick brand engines but that's because FAI fuel is easy for me to get.
10-19-2004, 02:22 PM
#16
Senior Member
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
...And then there are YS engines, most of which don't run as well on anything lower than 20% nitro.
So would you force your Rossi and MVVS, as well as your FAI racing engines (supposing you own such engines) to also drink the same 20% fuel???
Or maybe 30% nitro heli fuel, which YS engines really thrive on?
I don't think so...
Different engines need different fuels to be at their best. Live with it!
...And it is your car/truck that carries the fuel most of the way to the flying site, unless you have a new hobby; "fuel jug journey"...
So would you force your Rossi and MVVS, as well as your FAI racing engines (supposing you own such engines) to also drink the same 20% fuel???
Or maybe 30% nitro heli fuel, which YS engines really thrive on?
I don't think so...
Different engines need different fuels to be at their best. Live with it!
...And it is your car/truck that carries the fuel most of the way to the flying site, unless you have a new hobby; "fuel jug journey"...
10-19-2004, 02:59 PM
#17
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
The FAI fuel engines are more fussy about needle settings - fact -not fiction.
When you are looking for accurate throttle response at low rpms- the addition of a little nitro really smooths things.
Even on our spark ignition alky based fuel engines -- 5% nitro made it all smoother.
No big secret to this - Nitro broadens the required fuel mix window.
By slightly lowering compression - then adding some nitro - the engine becomes more tractable
The Japanese adopted this setup years back - the OS and others will tolerate and run better on high nitro blends
When the first four strokers came out--they were setup with too much comprssion and adjustments for various prop loads became a real mess
The Saitos put out more power on low nitro - for same reason - but if they got warm - then the glow ignition would easily kickback and throw prop/spinner and all.
I once ran modified TEE DEE's (.049)on FAI fuel - andthey ran well but very fussy-
When you are looking for accurate throttle response at low rpms- the addition of a little nitro really smooths things.
Even on our spark ignition alky based fuel engines -- 5% nitro made it all smoother.
No big secret to this - Nitro broadens the required fuel mix window.
By slightly lowering compression - then adding some nitro - the engine becomes more tractable
The Japanese adopted this setup years back - the OS and others will tolerate and run better on high nitro blends
When the first four strokers came out--they were setup with too much comprssion and adjustments for various prop loads became a real mess
The Saitos put out more power on low nitro - for same reason - but if they got warm - then the glow ignition would easily kickback and throw prop/spinner and all.
I once ran modified TEE DEE's (.049)on FAI fuel - andthey ran well but very fussy-
10-19-2004, 09:06 PM
#18
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
Do a search here "Mr.Moki" and you'll find quite a bit on information on this. Under that thread, scroll down to "Moki Factory" and you'll gett the skinny on it all.
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort
I was at the International Hobby Expo in Chicago this weekend. I saw some interesting engines at the Dave Patrick booth. According to Dave himself "they are made in Hungary". To me they looked very much like a Moki. But he says they are not Moki brand engines. They have a Dave Patrick logo on a blue anodized head. Other features: a high end needle angled away from the prop, and a nice little retainer clip for the low end dial that like to pop off sometimes. He says that they are made especially for him. They are designed to run on up to 15% nitro. He said that the compression ratio is a little lower and the ring has a little more tolerance in it to handle higher nitro.
Joe
I was at the International Hobby Expo in Chicago this weekend. I saw some interesting engines at the Dave Patrick booth. According to Dave himself "they are made in Hungary". To me they looked very much like a Moki. But he says they are not Moki brand engines. They have a Dave Patrick logo on a blue anodized head. Other features: a high end needle angled away from the prop, and a nice little retainer clip for the low end dial that like to pop off sometimes. He says that they are made especially for him. They are designed to run on up to 15% nitro. He said that the compression ratio is a little lower and the ring has a little more tolerance in it to handle higher nitro.
Joe
10-19-2004, 09:31 PM
#19
10-19-2004, 11:35 PM
#20
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RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
I like the retainer idea on the carb but not the lower compression.
The 2.10 is very fuel efficient on 0% nitro for the power it puts out.
The 2.10 is very fuel efficient on 0% nitro for the power it puts out.
10-20-2004, 07:30 AM
#21
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
I beg to differ here. People have a right to get as much information on a product as possible even to stop rumors. It was a interesting thread and weak at first but Moki Factory came on and cleared it up.
ORIGINAL: hobbsy
The thread you're referring to is mostly mis-information, speculation and conjecture, it is best left where it is.
The thread you're referring to is mostly mis-information, speculation and conjecture, it is best left where it is.
10-20-2004, 08:59 AM
#23
RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
ORIGINAL: Skypilot_one
I like the retainer idea on the carb but not the lower compression.
The 2.10 is very fuel efficient on 0% nitro for the power it puts out.
I like the retainer idea on the carb but not the lower compression.
The 2.10 is very fuel efficient on 0% nitro for the power it puts out.
10-21-2004, 09:01 AM
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RE: Dave Patrick - New line of engines - not Moki
I wish we wouldn't have to guess at things with all the commercial hanging chads out there...
Does anyone know the distinct list of parts that are different between the Moki and DPM varieties?
Will DPM be able to sell parts that will replace Moki engine parts (either because they are the same or because he will take over parts stocking for the Moki brand)?
Does anyone know the distinct list of parts that are different between the Moki and DPM varieties?
Will DPM be able to sell parts that will replace Moki engine parts (either because they are the same or because he will take over parts stocking for the Moki brand)?