Pilotsmoe

Just engines has them on sale. I just got one for less than $100 without muffler. I love these engines

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

Not a bad price. Expecially if you already have a muffler to use. Mine was $130 with the muffler but that was a year ago.

IronCross

A couple years ago I was buying them for 87 usd complete (in quantity)... Ah for the good old days...

tychoc

Thanks for the heads-up!!

I had just placed an order with Just engines two hours ago for the MVVS .49, but I really wanted the Irvine .53. Well, now that the Irvine is cheaper, I called them up and got my order changed

-tycho

IronCross

Looks like with the "standard" muffler they work out to 85.50 USD each... WOW.. I emailed Paul to find out if this is the "old" carburator or not... Some referance to a "Jen" carb in the text below.. Not sure about that.. Part of there great performance was the carb...

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

What are these? Made in China versions?

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Sure enough, the bottom footnote says "All Irvine with J’EN TN2 carbs. and J’EN Silencers (equivalent to Irvine originals)"
What a humbug. You won't see me buying them with anything other than a real Irvine JetStream carb. I copied and pasted that right off the bottom line.

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

Nice work. That helps us to stay informed around here. [8D]

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

I sent Paul an E-mail asking if this only applied to the monthly specials or is the way of the future. I don't like it when someone messes with engines I consider among the best that you can buy.

tychoc

So, if this "on sale" Irvine has an inferior carb, would you get the MVVS .49 or the "new" Irvine 53??

Right now I feel had by this ad. I assumed that the Irvine 53 on sale was the same as the one written so positively about here at RCU and I didn't think Justengines would do something like this based on the favorable ratings I've seen here.

I hope they will clear up this confusion.

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

My experience is that this guy is a great person to do business with. It looks like he clearly spelled out the carb type even though we all missed it (except hobbsy and Iron Cross). I'm just glad someone flagged it here so we all know what we are buying.

sigrun

Same. Placed an order for a pair of them last night. No wonder it was so quickly actioned!

That note of clearly deterrant significance obscured in the last line of the fine print should be a bold, clarified clearly header in large font instead of placed deliberately on the very last line hoping it'd be overlooked (as it was) and/or confuse the unfamiliar (as it did).

I've just responded to my since despatched order requesting confirmation of the carb status and advising that they can expect them immediately boomeranged in the mail if fitted with J'EN (non-genuine Irvine Jetstream) carbs. I'll be contacting my credit card company today. Crap carburation is my absolute all time pet hate. Isn't it everyone's? I'm not interested in playing at Guinea Pig.

If this gotcha' promo is as suspected, it's completely destroyed my confidence in Just Engines. We'll see how they respond to determine if this is to be for all time. Though a first time Just Engines customer, I'm an very experienced e-shopper and have never copped this sort of borderline deception from any American company I've dealt with online. I feel my trust has been not just misplaced, but betrayed.

Accept no substitute.

sigrun

Thanks Hobbsy, even if I'd rather not have heard it.

Absolutely. Definitive humbug. Right up there with the "comes with a 'free' set of steak knives, but wait there's even more!" spruikers.

sigrun

We'll see.

Now there's the definitive illustration of a self-contradiction. Whilst the advert arguably did cover its arse legally in the fine print, the intent is arguable at best only to the completely naive.

I'm not familiar with the engine, nor inarticulate, illiterate or usually inattentive to detail, yet that not insignificant detail was sufficiently obscured to confuse and be overlooked by me. I suppose ending up with a dog when buying a pig in a poke is an experience everyone should 'enjoy' and will have in their lifetime. And of course, placing it in perspective, it won't stop the earth from rotating on its axis.

Yep.

tychoc

I don't think I would classify a note at the bottom of a page as "clearly spelled out". Also, the picture in the ad, does it show the original carb or the TN2 carb? It looks just like the pictures on the original catalog page. Furthermore, a beginner like me have no way of catching this. For all I know, the TN2 carb is the original one. I've built up an opinion regarding the Irvine .53 based on what has been written about it on RCU and thus acted accordingly.

I still feel cheated by the small footnote and honestly had not expected this since Justengines reputation is very good throughout this forum.

I sent an e-mail too, asking for clarification. I guess I'll make up my mind tomorrow when I've had a chance to speak with them.

-tycho

sigrun

Could someone with the genuine article please post an image/s here of their genuine Irvine original Jetstream carb?

I feel similarly aggrieved to have been taken in by the obscurity in the fine print and that misleading image tychoc, which as you say, to the unfamiliar but examining eye appear identical to the original jetstream carb fitted £100- engine being offered at regular pricing, just at a price reduction for heightened profile promotional purposes approaching Christmas. Ho..Ho..Ho...Well they're certainly going to get a heightened profile as a result of it, though I doubt it's the one they sought or will want.

These are images extracted a few moments ago from JE's website.

The first pic from the left below below (converted by me to .jpg format and renamed for uniformity) is the same image presented adjacent the text in that special priced advert. Looks like a Jetstream carb to me.

Compare it with the accompanying picture third from the left which is allegedly a closeup of the original Jetstream carb illustrated on the original engine advertised at a regular price of a penny under £100-. Insofar as the eye can glean from the limitations of the images themselves, this is also apparently the very same carb which is featured just below on the same page as the second pic and the fourth picture from the left below, and referred to throughout the accompanying text with acknowledged emphasis as a desirable factor and selling point in terms of reference of it being the much coveted and accoladed 'jetstream' carb. They all look like intended to give the impression "supplied with a jetstream carb" to me. Intentional or otherwise, the advert is unargably misleading at worst, or confusing at best.

Daryl Martel

My Feedback: (3)

Not the best closeups, but best I could do using macro and a flash. This is the genuine Irvine carb. My .53 has been simply awesome. I recently hung a Tower muffler on it which really made it come alive! Irvine makes great engines. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat. Shame about the carb swap - the stock carbs are probably as good or better than O.S. carbs which IMO says a lot.

Pilotsmoe

I changed my mind. I didn't buy the engine.

sigrun

Many thanks Daryl.

Having alerted others here and emailed Just Engines earlier today, I'm now waiting to see what Paul at has to say. We're 10hrs ahead of the UK over here, so it's only decent that I allow him the courtesy of time and opportunity to respond. It's 0800 hrs there as I write this, so Just Engines should be opening for business very shortly.

Re OS and other brand carbs proven reliable through either reputation and/or experience, I concur. That Jetstream carb I thought I was buying with the Irvine .53 is THE primary reason I selected the Irvine as acceptable in terms of my must have criteria.

At £100- a pop, economic triage ordinarily kills Irvine's .53 as an option against the alternatives insofarr as I'm concerned, but at what appeared prima facie simple promo pricing of the original article, the reputation for reliability and power the Jetstream fitted variant has earned here here suggested try it instead of a proven Enya 50CX or O.S. 50SX, both of which are bulletproof motors with flawless carburation. I can buy any one of a myriad of much cheaper engines which are still absolute powerhouses, eg: Magnum's XLS .52A Bluehead, but with clone carbs which have proven from end user reports to be a PITA, a time wasting nightmare I neither want, need nor consider acceptable. Fuel, flick and fly.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Here is the big and the small of the JetStream carbs.

tychoc

FYI: The £51.99 sales price does NOT include any carb (JE carb nor Jetstream) at all.

I cancled my original order for the Irvine .53, although I still want one with the Jetstream carb[sm=rolleyes.gif]

sigrun

Thanks Hobbsy. Out of curiosity, I can see the fittings are brass, are those carb bodies painted alloy? - presumably electrostatic coated.

I've since had email contact with JUST ENGINES. Only two words to say to others if dealing with this company. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

Or to be more succinct, why use two when one will do -DON'T.

I'll deal with them now through my credit card company as I've no intention of being stung with a whopping GBP£ freight bill for something neither wanted nor as represented for sale at that time on - or even now - their web site.

The particular web site page referred to in previous posts has since been amended (on 12/03/2004 post notification and contact with the company). However the singular and only image of the advertised Irvine engine presented on that page, immediately adjacent and in conjunction with that advertisment, is still of an Irvine fitted with a Jetstream carb. An ambiguious "Irvine pictured above" caption has since been amended or added below it and subsequently since hotlinked to another page "for pricing of Irvine engines with Irvine carbs and silencers". Irvine (sic) carb? Huh? What's the difference now between and "Irvine carb" and "Jetstream carb"? And "Irvine"? Wasn't I buying an "Irvine". Confusing? You bet!

The still lack of any depiction of the JÉN or Irvine fitted with a JÉN, which is what is you will actually be sent, is insufficient to resolve confusion or avoid the ambiguity clearly offered by that conflicting sole and highly suggestive completely misrepresentative image, which certainly by association, placement and being the only image on the page unquestionably presents an overwhelmingly strong impression the "Irvine" as pictured, with "Irvine"..which is presumably ambigu-speak for "Jetsream" carb, is what you are buying and will receive.

C'mon Paul. Just how much time does it take or difficult is it to pick up a digital camera, select macro, point 'n shoot a single image, upload it to the PC, edit it into the web page and upload it to the web site. I'll tell you. Less time than it does to edit and revise the text or deal with the confusion generated incoming emails and justifiably angry ex-customers.

There is still no image of either a J'EN carb posted on or linked from that page or an image of the Irvine .53 engine fitted with a J'EN carb as allegedly 'represented for sale'. Yet there is still an image of an "Irvine" fitted with a Jetstream carb. Misrepresentation or carelessness? Intent? Make up your own mind. I know what the law in either country and my bank will say re the goods received not actually being as represented as offered for sale on version one or two of that web page. Lift your game Just Engines.

Mind you, I won't ever be playing your team again, and I will pass the CAVEAT along in my primary club newsletter (guess who's editor?) and secondary club noticeboard, doing all I can to disseminate the WARNING by word of mouth and every other means available.

To prevent others being caught out, so that you all know, here's what a J'EN carb actually looks like insofar as I can ascertain. Best I could edit from the images I searched for an located after the fact. They depict the presumably JÉN carb fitted to the JÉN .56 engine lifted from images on its own separate page hotlinked from Just Engines home page. As I am subsequently led to understand, this is what you will actually get, ersatz "equivalent to Irvine (sic) originals". They look a lot like the same Sanye manufactured problematic rubbish that come supplied default with Magnum engines to me. Of course, without accurate information, there's no way of actually knowing or forming an knowledgable intelligent informed opinion.

Label me principled if you will, but strangely enough, I refuse the 'generous' subsequent offer conveyed to me via email of being gouged an extra £80- plus freight both ways for the privilege of receiving what prima facie by impression through wording, placement and typeface of same reinforced through being accompanied by the immediately adjacent placement of an overwhelmingly suggestive photographic image of an Irvine .53 engine fitted with a Jetstream carb clearly implying the strong overall impression that that was what was being supplied - contradicted, and arguably if, only by a single and confusingly ambiguous line placed at the very bottom of the advertisment. Indeliberate or intentional, either way I just don't care. It's misrepresentation.

Perhaps Just Engines feel their established reputation is beyond refutation? One thing's for sure. If they don't make good on what they clearly misrepresented, and quickly with acknowledgement of the fact, they ain't gonna' ever get the opportunity to cause me, and as many others as I can persuade, pain ever again!

signed
Mr. Cranky! [:@]

Rupurt

At that price for that engine i would still go for it, if i didnt already have one. I have dealt with just engines and was extremely happy with the way they do business (good prices, good service although, apparently not in you case).

tychoc

Just another clarification, which may not have come across too well in my previous post and that I found confusing.

On the JE web page with the sales prices, the column labeled "1 - Engine only" actually means an engine WITHOUT CARB AND SILENCER. I found this confusing since the next column "2 - Standard Large Volume Silencer" should then have read: "2 - Standard Large Volume Silencer AND JEN carb".

Just wanted to make this clear since this was not how I interpreted this column.

sigrun

Thanks for the advice Rupert. But in my own case, respective of preceding reputation, I prefer to deal only with companies who prove the validity thereof though dealing reputably with me. In this case, Just Engines haven't.

Ask tychoc. To understate the situ, neither of us are impressed with the email responses received from Paul at Just Engines regarding this issue - even after we managed to decipher them. From here on in, integrity simply isn't terminology I associate with Just Engines. CAVEAT EMPTOR is.

Appreciate that your own experience with them may have been less negative or painful.

My advice? Stick with Tower or a reputable American suppliers who understand what the concept "customer service" actually means, who accept and demonstrate responsibility in toto for their advertising mistakes by making good in the interest of good will and allaying any inference of suspected or associated impropriety even if it means they have to absorb the loss and suffer fiscal pain.

Quite frankly, whether accepted as unintentional - or otherwise - it was misleading advertising. In my view Just Engines should simply make good gratis, by offering and supplying to those electing to take up the offer, free replacement of Jetstream carbs for JÉN carbs entirely at their expense on all Irvine engines actually despatched to purchasers under the premise of information as advertised prior to amendment on the third of December. Presumably would prove to be but the few, and by admitted caveat on their own website contained by "limited stock". ££££ ouch? That's just smart business to be seen publically to be acting with decency and integrity instead of hiding behind a web of apparent denial and deceit.

Had I had the opportunity to cancel my order by being accurately and dutifully informed of the ersatz "Irvine" carb substitution status quo prior to despatch of those engines, I would have done so without a moment's hesitation, as others subsequent to the uncovering of this sham here, have subsequently done.