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Thread: MOKI ENGINES


  1. #1

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    MOKI ENGINES

    DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH MOKI ENGINES? THE DISTRIBUTER SAID THEY WEREN'T GOING TO BE AVAILABLE ANY MORE. HE IS EVEN TRYING TO SELL HIS MOKI LOGO ON EBAY. THEY ALSO SEEMED TO HAVE DISAPPEARED ON LINE.
    AL BURMAN

  2. #2
    3dd's Avatar
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    the factory screwed jim around on sales rights and the company that makes moki went under.if they have any and i wouldn't buy from them if they did is mark engines in canada.just my 2 cents
    RON H

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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Last I heard was Dave Patrick taking it over. Same engine, just a different name on it. So they are probably everywhere, just another name.
    Retired Army Aviator - Where the heck have I been?

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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Chief Aircraft sells the Moki engines as far as I know. Call them and ask them how long they are available. Also JustEngines.com sells them in UK.

    Morris Hobbies sells the Mark brand engine which is identical to the Moki just a brand name change. Also Dave Patrick sells another brand of that engine. It's a little different spec than the Moki or Mark brand. As far as the factory in Hungary going under? I heard that but can't confirm it. They must still be in business because they are still manufacturing Mark and Dave Patrick engines.
    Joe AP

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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Thanks all for the info. I know Chief still sells them. Regardless of who messed around with who, I think they are a great engine. Thanks again.
    Al

  6. #6
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Dear all,
    let me try to get some things sorted out here...

    1.) "Moki" still exists. It is ONE of the brands used by a Hungarian model engine manufacturing company, just as well as "Mark". The company was forced to use both brands due to some brand ownership issues on some markets for several years (in my country, Germany, we have had "Mark" as the brand since more than five years, I believe...)

    2.) Gerard Enterprises used to import the engines to the U.S. under the label "Moki". The relationship with the factory was broken; to my knowledge the engines are still being imported to the U.S. by Morris Hobbies (see http://www.morrishobbies.com/) under the "Mark" label. Possibly also Dave Patrick is importing, not sure about that. Nothing unusual: a vendor has dropped one importer and has partnered with another one...

    3.) "The factory" has a web site where you can get all information about the products: http://www.mokiengine.com/indexang.htm

    4.) The factory has upgraded their manufacturing equipment, the engines that are coming off the line now are probably the best Marks/Mokis ever manufactured. In addition, there are strong rumors of new models coming out...

    I just wanted to share these points with you - and if you wonder where I got all this information from: Aside from flying several models equipped with Marks and Mokis, I am one of the importers of these fantastic engines to Germany (we sell "Mark"), and I just couldn't leave all those incorrect informations about these engines disappearing from the market unanswered. I also am of Hungarian origin and am in regular personal contact with the guys at the factory.

    Best regards from Germany,

    Matias
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Thanks Matias, I'm glad for all the accurate info. It's amazing how many different versions of true facts there are. Thanks again.
    Al

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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Hi,

    The Moki factory has a new web-site with manuals, etvv at www.remek-kft.com

    and they indeed come our with new products incl. four strokes and gas engines

    Chip

  9. #9
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Hi Chipichape,
    unfortunately the situation is not as simple as it looks - the companies "Remek" and "Moki" no longer belong together. I don't want to go into painful details, but the Remek page is reflecting more of a vision than reality... at least as far as I know.

    There is a sad story behind it, I have heard two different - very different - variants of it.

    All I know is that the Mokis are fine engines, and there still is a factory called MRC manufacturing them and serving modelers throughout the world - I have visited them just a few weeks ago. They still reside where they were since twenty, thirty years; it still is the same gang of engineers and technicians. As far as the classical line (M61, M135, M180, M210, M360 and the ONLY gas engine - the M210) is concerned, these engines are built by MRC (that's the successor of the state-owned brand Moki) as they were before Remek joined forces with MRC. It now looks like the relationship between MRC and Remek has broken, with all usual ugly consequences.

    Remek had a lot of excellent and innovative ideas, I do wish them that they will find their own way into the market - competing on products, and not only web sites. I also hope that MRC will continue making the fine Mokis and Marks in the quality we all know. And finally, I very much hope, that the two companies can settle the legal and financia aspects of their separation soon and without a lot of mud-throwing.

    Let's cross our fingers.

    Matias
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    MatiasR, I happen to own a MOKI .51RC and a .61 LS, they are fine engines also. I had quite a time coming up with them but finally got them, the .51 rc is used the .61 LS was still in its vacuum sealed bag. Thanks much for your input.
    John Deere 820, 72.82 HP @ 1,125 rpm, 470.7 cu. in., bore=6.125", stroke=8.00", two cylinder. CR=16 to 1.
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Hi Matias

    I am looking for a M61 where could i get one?


    Ray

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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Raybow, you better search over the internet or try www.justengines.co.uk.

    This thread is 4 1/2 years old, and I don't think Matias has shown up lately...
    Club Saito member #632
    Once you hear the sound of a multicylinder 4-stroke, you\'\'ll be hooked forever!

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    RE: MOKI ENGINES


    ORIGINAL: Raybow

    Hi Matias

    I am looking for a M61 where could i get one?


    Ray

    Last Login: 1/19/2009

    Ray, he hasn't been here for awhile. I would look at "just engines" for a .61LS, they are good folke to deal with.

    Mike

  14. #14
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Hi guys,
    I'm still around.

    I have >10 M61 NIB on stock, all versions, i.e. ABC and ringed, as well as side or rear exhaust. @Raybow - which version are you looking for?

    Happy holidays to you all...

    Matias
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Hi

    I have tried all over for a Moki .61LS, Just Engines, Hobby People even sent email to Moki so gave up so as far as i am concerned they can get STUFFED, so purchsed a WEBRA as these are Great and have been around since 50's


    As for Global Warming all Bull Dust just another UN Moneygrab.

    MERRY CHRISTMAS not this happy holidays stuff

  16. #16
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Hi Raybow,
    the problem is, that the Moki 61 is out of production since several years. The engines from the last production run were bought up by several Moki/Mark resellers (amongst myself). I don't offer them publicly on my website, as there aren't many people left, who are willing to pay a reasonable price for these little gems, as the small engine market has been totally ruined by the cheap mass-produced engines from China etc.

    Here are the main reasons why they arenn't produced anymore:

    1) The number of parts and the labor costs involved in manufacturing a .61 to moki standards are not substantially less than that of a .120, .180 or .210 - it is the same count of parts! In other words, using the resources to manufacture larger engines renders better returns.

    2) In addition, engine sizes below .120 today are mainly used by modelers flying trainers (at least here in Europe), and many of them have switched to electric stuff. Thus, the market for small glow engines is drying up

    The Webra .51 is not a bad a bad choice, albeit not in the same performance range as the Moki/Mark .61 - it has 20% less displacement. An interesting engine would be the Weston engines from the U.K.- they are based on the Webra, but have been significantly optimized. Weston offers two versions of the .51: One is optimized for highspeed at high rpms (I have one with a tuned pipe, turning an APC 9x6 at 26.000 rpm in a speed model), the other one has been optimized for high torque at low revs for small 3D-models.

    Performancewise an alternative to the Moki could be the Rossi and Novarossi engines, they are also hard to get and expensive.

    Hope to have shed some light on the topic.

    Have fun with your Webra, and if you need a .61 Mark/Moki - just drop me an e-Mail.

    BR

    Matias
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    So.....where do the moki gas engines fit into this ?

    Are they also the same manufacturer as th glow engines ?
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  18. #18
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Hi Sonnich,
    now it will get a bit complicated:

    During the communist time in Hungary, the Hungarian Army established an institute for the development and research of model engines - in Hungarian, Model KisΓ©rleti IntΓ©zet, abbreviated Moki. Moki cam intoi existance in the fifties, and mainly served two goals: on one hand, it had to supply the competition teams for control line flight, free flight and tethered model cars with competition engines. These were small glow and diesel engines, e.g..15 c.i. displacement. On the other end of the scale, Moki also developed and manufactured large glow engines (1.2 and 1.5 c.i. displacement) for military use in UAVs (those days they were called drones). Moki was very successful, their head of engineering, Gyula Krizsma, was not only an excellen modeller (multiple world champion in speed control line), but also a very talented engineer, specialized on high-performance two-stroke engines. As Hungary became more and more liberal, the Moki engines also became available for amateur modelers, mainly in Hungary, a few in other countries of the Eastern block. In the late eighties, the company was producing .15, .40, .51,.61, 1.2 and 1.5 c.i. displacement glow engines, in a variety of R/C, Venturi, air and watercooled versions.

    With the political changes and the collapse of the iron curtain, Moki was privatized and began looking for potential private partners in other countries. They closed contracts with a number of companies, in Germany it was a company that later became known under the name of "Airworld". Inexperienced in marketing (and in capitalistic business attitudes) Moki did not pay attention to the copyright of their valuable name. Therefore, in almost all cases, these first importers and partners of Moki, recognizing the value of the brand name, registered the name "Moki" on their respective local markets. This was at least the case in Germany, UK and the US.

    In Germany, Airworld started importing and selling Mokis. For whatever reason, the relationship between Moki and Airworld went sour, Moki had to look for new / other distributors, while Airworld started designing and manufacturing their own line of engines, in the beginning also glow, bus soon after switched to gasoline engines. These were also manufactured in Hungary, but neither at the Moki plant,nor by the same people. In fact, they were not based on the ingenious development basics laid down by Mr. Krizsma. The early "Airworld-Mokis" did not live up to the reputation, poor craftmanship and material quality soon ruined the initial value of the brand name. Nevertheless, Airworld invested in their line of engines, cleaned up the quality issues, and developed the stunning big, four-stroke radials. They managed to reestablish the brand name - irrespective of the morally very questionable way they acquired the name.

    This history led to some very strange situations: While the original Hungarian Moki folks no longer can sell their engines in Germany under the label "Moki" (that's why they introduced the new brand "Mark", a small number of .61 engines was sold under the label "MIH"), Airworld can not use the "Moki" name in other markets such as the U.K. (the Moki brand to my knowledge belongs to JustEngines) or the U.S. (to my knowledge, the Moki brand in the U.S. is registered for Gerard Enterprise, the first importer, who disappeared from the market, but still owns the brand). In some markets the Airworld-Mokis are called RC Showcase or RCS.

    Today the original Hungarian Mokis are sold as Mark in Germany and the U.S., as well as some other markets. In Hungary (and also some other markets) they still proudly carry the name "Moki".

    Looking at today's line-up, Moki/Mark manufactures a line of glow engines, ranging from the 140 (1.37 c.i.) over the 180 (1.8 c.i.) to the 210 (2.1 c.i.) single cylinders and the 360 (3.6 c.i.) in-line twin, built from two 180s. The second line consists of gasoline engines, these are based on the original glow engines, but have been re-designed and optimized for gasoline operation - some of the changes are e.g. much larger cooling area, needle bearings at boith ends of the conrod, minor modifications to bearings and sealings to adapt to the conditions, a Walbro carb, and an electronic ignition system. Today, they offer the 140, the 180 and the 360 as gas engines. Remarkably, the gas versions offer almost the same power as their glow versions - something very unusual.

    By the way - the entire line is still based on the original drone engine designed by Gyula Krizsma, who is now well over eighty years old, but still visits the company from time to time.

    Hope this story answers your question...

    Kind regards

    matias

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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Thank you very much for the history.
    That sure made things clear now.

    Airworld should re-name there brand.....but i guess its a little late to do that now.
    Sonnich Johannesen

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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Hi

    Email ray@kkcustoms.co.nz

    on Moki

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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    I am after side exhaust.

    Which is best ringed or unringed?


  22. #22
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Ringed or unringed - a philosophical question....

    The ABC version probably has a slight power / performance advantage over the ringed version, HOWEVER, is more critical when it comes to thermal or lubrication issues (tuned pipe too short, insufficient cooling, lean run, poor fuel / lube quality etc.). I have been using both versions, but never did a 1:1 comparison...

    So, I would say, if you want to fly at competitions and get the maximum peak power out of the engine, and know what you are doing, the ABC is your choice.
    If, on the other hand, you want to fly lots of hours, and peak performance is not the number 1 priority, probably the ringed version is the better choice.

    Mind you, these are just some VERY personal views.

    Kind regards,

    Matias
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  23. #23
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Looks like TBM has some of the big 4 stroke singles and radials http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/categ...s-Engines.html(scroll to middle of page) assuming RCS is Moki
    and Hobby People carries engines and parts for the 140 and 210 glow and 180 gas http://www.hobbypeople.net/guru/hps_962657086.asp
    Matias, can webuy Mark's through you in the US? and if so do you carry the full line?

  24. #24
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    Hi Bill,
    theoretically you can buy the Mark engines from me (I carry the 140, 180, 210, 360 alcohol versions and the 140, 180 and 360 gas versions, and I have a few of the .61 methanol engines left). You can find my (German) homepage at www.mr-rc.de. The engines are available though also via distributors in the U.S. :If you consider shipment costs plus the hassle with customs, you are probably better off sourcing the engine in the U.S. I am currrently on the road with no access to my files at home, but if you send an email to model@moki-engine.hu (copy me at matias@rajkay.de or sales@mr-rc.de), I'm sure the folks at the factory will provide you with up-to-date contact parameters of U.S. distributors.

    As far as the other engines (the radial and the big gas burners) are concerned I have no access, the manufacturer/distributor in Germany is www.airworld.de (see http://www.airworld.de/Englisch/Index.htm) - the best is if you contact them directly.

    All the best

    Matias
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  25. #25
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    RE: MOKI ENGINES

    I emailed Moki as you suggested and Global Hobby http://www.globalhobby.com/globalwhere2buy.aspis the US distributor for Moki/Mark supplying many hobby shops throughout the US. Actually Mokis' sitehttp://www.mokiengine.com/lists all the distributors world wide


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