Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
11-07-2010, 01:00 PM
#51
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RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
Picco was another brand that used pedestrian timing. These mild timings leave material on the parts to allow one to custom fit the timing to fit ones application.
I too like to set up the two stroke with the pipe. Both for noise suppression and power augmentation.
All the best,
Konrad
I too like to set up the two stroke with the pipe. Both for noise suppression and power augmentation.
All the best,
Konrad
11-07-2010, 01:03 PM
#52
RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Brian,
I tried to send this E-mail to the E-ddress in the manual... It was rejected by the domain.
-
[font=''Verdana'']Dear Snorer,
The proper break-in procedure for any tapered-bore engine, including your MVVS cloned 'Snorer', is outlined in this RCU thread:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1850473/tm.htm
The procedure in your Snorer .49 'manual' is worthless to say the least.
It cannot possible achieve the objectives of performing a break-in and could be damaging to such an engine.
Thoroughly read the linked thread, please, to understand what I am trying to convey to you.
Please update it to conform to the ABC design of the engine.
Sincerely,
Dar Zeelon[/font]
-
ORIGINAL: downunder
Interesting. Dar will have a field day with their running in procedure 
. Also interesting was the recommendation for all castor and no more than 5% nitro so it's likely to be a high compression engine.
ORIGINAL: w8ye
Manual in English
Manual in English
. Also interesting was the recommendation for all castor and no more than 5% nitro so it's likely to be a high compression engine.
I tried to send this E-mail to the E-ddress in the manual... It was rejected by the domain.
-
[font=''Verdana'']Dear Snorer,
The proper break-in procedure for any tapered-bore engine, including your MVVS cloned 'Snorer', is outlined in this RCU thread:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1850473/tm.htm
The procedure in your Snorer .49 'manual' is worthless to say the least.
It cannot possible achieve the objectives of performing a break-in and could be damaging to such an engine.
Thoroughly read the linked thread, please, to understand what I am trying to convey to you.
Please update it to conform to the ABC design of the engine.
Sincerely,
Dar Zeelon[/font]
-
Are the liners in MVVS Engines made of Brass or Bronze? What kind/type?
The break-in procedure for one type of "ABC" engine may not be correct for the other. In my opinion, it's irresponsible to make such a claim.
Apparently the Cylinder liner in the Snorer Engine is made from; "Quote" special bronze SAE 64, with subsequent treatment of hard chromium aircraft, (3 hundredths of thickness)."
I think I'll follow the Manufactures Recommendation(s) for the break-in of these engines.
Different materials "work harden" in different ways.
11-07-2010, 01:07 PM
#53
RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
ORIGINAL: Konrad
Back to the engine itself, as the tread is 5 years old does anybody have any real first hand data with it? It looks like the timing is not conducive to pipe operation. So is it really a MVVS or a detuned MVVS aimed at the sport market? Do the parts interchange?
So was there any real point to bringing this thread back from the dead?
All the best,
Konrad
Back to the engine itself, as the tread is 5 years old does anybody have any real first hand data with it? It looks like the timing is not conducive to pipe operation. So is it really a MVVS or a detuned MVVS aimed at the sport market? Do the parts interchange?
So was there any real point to bringing this thread back from the dead?
All the best,
Konrad
I guess this thread got interesting.....
11-07-2010, 01:16 PM
#54
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RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
That is a bearing grade of bronze. I'll have to look up the coefficient of heat expansion for that. I also wonder how well it takes to plating. That 0.03 is only about .00118 thick in "American" units.
Now what is really important for longevity as far as materials are concerned with the true ABC set up is the aluminum used in the piston. What grade alloy is the aluminum?
All the best,
Konrad
Now what is really important for longevity as far as materials are concerned with the true ABC set up is the aluminum used in the piston. What grade alloy is the aluminum?
All the best,
Konrad
11-07-2010, 01:33 PM
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RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
For what it is worth. I would plate my cylinders to have a chrome plating thickness of approximately 0.25mm out of the tank. I did this to induce as much micro cracking as possible without jeopardizing the bond strength. I then ground the cylinder to a finish size with the plating being approximately 0.04mm to 0.05mm thickness. For a production engine this is costly both in tank time and machine time (grinding).
All the best,
Konrad
All the best,
Konrad
11-07-2010, 04:55 PM
#61
Senior Member
RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
Are the liners in MVVS Engines made of Brass or Bronze? What kind/type?
The break-in procedure for one type of ''ABC'' engine may not be correct for the other. In my opinion, it's irresponsible to make such a claim.
Apparently the Cylinder liner in the Snorer Engine is made from; ''Quote'' special bronze SAE 64, with subsequent treatment of hard chromium aircraft, (3 hundredths of thickness).''
I think I'll follow the Manufactures Recommendation(s) for the break-in of these engines.
Different materials ''work harden'' in different ways.
Are the liners in MVVS Engines made of Brass or Bronze? What kind/type?
The break-in procedure for one type of ''ABC'' engine may not be correct for the other. In my opinion, it's irresponsible to make such a claim.
Apparently the Cylinder liner in the Snorer Engine is made from; ''Quote'' special bronze SAE 64, with subsequent treatment of hard chromium aircraft, (3 hundredths of thickness).''
I think I'll follow the Manufactures Recommendation(s) for the break-in of these engines.
Different materials ''work harden'' in different ways.
BW,
Bronze is used for con-rod inserts (and for bushing bearing engines). I believe Pedro L. Soto is incorrect, if he quoted bronze as the base material of the cylinder sleeve.
The 'B' in ABC/ABN is only for brass.
My procedure is not for 'one type of ABC engine'... It works great for all ABC engines and other engines that have tapered cylinder bores.
Brass alloys and high-silicon aluminium alloys have a similar coefficient of thermal expansion, making them suitable for long lasting P+L sets.
I think bronze differs considerably enough, to make it unsuitable for such uses.
11-07-2010, 05:07 PM
#62
RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
Interesting...
The web page(s) clearly state;
Cylinder liner: In special bronze SAE 64, with subsequent treatment of hard chromium aircraft, (3 hundredths of thickness).
Brass is any alloy of copper and zinc.
Bronze is a metal alloy consisting primarily of copper, usually with tin as the main additive, but sometimes with other elements such as phosphorus, manganese, aluminum, or silicon
Read more: Brass vs Bronze - Difference and Comparison | Diffen http://www.diffen.com/difference/Bra...#ixzz14dbhODxx
If your liner was made from a material that was hard/brittle...wouldn't you want to use a break-in procedure that would differ from one that used a soft malable liner?
The web page(s) clearly state;
Cylinder liner: In special bronze SAE 64, with subsequent treatment of hard chromium aircraft, (3 hundredths of thickness).
Brass is any alloy of copper and zinc.
Bronze is a metal alloy consisting primarily of copper, usually with tin as the main additive, but sometimes with other elements such as phosphorus, manganese, aluminum, or silicon
Read more: Brass vs Bronze - Difference and Comparison | Diffen http://www.diffen.com/difference/Bra...#ixzz14dbhODxx
If your liner was made from a material that was hard/brittle...wouldn't you want to use a break-in procedure that would differ from one that used a soft malable liner?
11-07-2010, 05:31 PM
#63
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RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
Yes, as long as MVVS has stock I can order from them. They mostlydo have stock if the engine is not too long out of production. Sometimes they have stock of newer parts that will fit the old engines, like quickie cylinders that fit the pylon engines. Sometimes they have stock left on the shelf of pre-private times (ussr regimememories)
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
Can you still buy parts for the MVVS engine sizes that they no longer produce?
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
When I am looking at the snorer pictures, It could have been pictures taken off MVVS engines, including all carb parts, muffler, up to the prop drive milled grooves.
BTW,
MVVS true ABC liner/piston assemblies still are available at very affordable prices.
When I am looking at the snorer pictures, It could have been pictures taken off MVVS engines, including all carb parts, muffler, up to the prop drive milled grooves.
BTW,
MVVS true ABC liner/piston assemblies still are available at very affordable prices.
11-07-2010, 05:36 PM
#64
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RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
Bronze can be as hard as you want it to, even to the extend that you can make chisels out of it. However, this is of no importance. It is not the bronze that wears, but the chrome. So the bronze must have matching heat expansion properties with the piston material. In addition, the liner material must accept the chrome plating well, and it must be readily machinable to quite exact sizes whilst not wearing down production tools too fast.
Brass has all these properties.
Brass has all these properties.
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
Interesting...
The web page(s) clearly state;
Cylinder liner: In special bronze SAE 64, with subsequent treatment of hard chromium aircraft, (3 hundredths of thickness).
Brass is any alloy of copper and zinc.
Bronze is a metal alloy consisting primarily of copper, usually with tin as the main additive, but sometimes with other elements such as phosphorus, manganese, aluminum, or silicon
Read more: Brass vs Bronze - Difference and Comparison | Diffen http://www.diffen.com/difference/Bra...#ixzz14dbhODxx
If your liner was made from a material that was hard/brittle...wouldn't you want to use a break-in procedure that would differ from one that used a soft malable liner?
Interesting...
The web page(s) clearly state;
Cylinder liner: In special bronze SAE 64, with subsequent treatment of hard chromium aircraft, (3 hundredths of thickness).
Brass is any alloy of copper and zinc.
Bronze is a metal alloy consisting primarily of copper, usually with tin as the main additive, but sometimes with other elements such as phosphorus, manganese, aluminum, or silicon
Read more: Brass vs Bronze - Difference and Comparison | Diffen http://www.diffen.com/difference/Bra...#ixzz14dbhODxx
If your liner was made from a material that was hard/brittle...wouldn't you want to use a break-in procedure that would differ from one that used a soft malable liner?
11-07-2010, 05:53 PM
#65
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RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
When I needed a .25 engine, I married the mvvs .20 crankshaft to the .28 cylinder which used a 1mm larger stroke. Effectively, the exhaust port dropped 0.5mm, and I had to take 0.5mm off the cylinder flange top.
Timing of exhaust was 145°, transfer 95°, for a whopping blowdown of 25°.
The engine became very easy handling and has a usablepower range of 12000 to 18000 rpm. Due to the large blowdown it responds to a tuned pipe with very large power increase, even at a low inlet timing of 35° atdc. The keyword here was port time/area. The large bore and very short stroke made it work like it did. MVVS adopted the idea, and now still makes them to order.
Timing of exhaust was 145°, transfer 95°, for a whopping blowdown of 25°.
The engine became very easy handling and has a usablepower range of 12000 to 18000 rpm. Due to the large blowdown it responds to a tuned pipe with very large power increase, even at a low inlet timing of 35° atdc. The keyword here was port time/area. The large bore and very short stroke made it work like it did. MVVS adopted the idea, and now still makes them to order.
ORIGINAL: Konrad
Picco was another brand that used pedestrian timing. These mild timings leave material on the parts to allow one to custom fit the timing to fit ones application.
I too like to set up the two stroke with the pipe. Both for noise suppression and power augmentation.
All the best,
Konrad
Picco was another brand that used pedestrian timing. These mild timings leave material on the parts to allow one to custom fit the timing to fit ones application.
I too like to set up the two stroke with the pipe. Both for noise suppression and power augmentation.
All the best,
Konrad
11-07-2010, 05:54 PM
#66
RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
Bronze can be as hard as you want it to, even to the extend that you can make chisels out of it. However, this is of no importance. It is not the bronze that wears, but the chrome. So the bronze must have matching heat expansion properties with the piston material. In addition, the liner material must accept the chrome plating well, and it must be readily machinable to quite exact sizes whilst not wearing down production tools too fast.
Brass has all these properties.
Bronze can be as hard as you want it to, even to the extend that you can make chisels out of it. However, this is of no importance. It is not the bronze that wears, but the chrome. So the bronze must have matching heat expansion properties with the piston material. In addition, the liner material must accept the chrome plating well, and it must be readily machinable to quite exact sizes whilst not wearing down production tools too fast.
Brass has all these properties.
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
Interesting...
The web page(s) clearly state;
Cylinder liner: In special bronze SAE 64, with subsequent treatment of hard chromium aircraft, (3 hundredths of thickness).
Brass is any alloy of copper and zinc.
Bronze is a metal alloy consisting primarily of copper, usually with tin as the main additive, but sometimes with other elements such as phosphorus, manganese, aluminum, or silicon
Read more: Brass vs Bronze - Difference and Comparison | Diffen http://www.diffen.com/difference/Bra...#ixzz14dbhODxx
If your liner was made from a material that was hard/brittle...wouldn't you want to use a break-in procedure that would differ from one that used a soft malable liner?
Interesting...
The web page(s) clearly state;
Cylinder liner: In special bronze SAE 64, with subsequent treatment of hard chromium aircraft, (3 hundredths of thickness).
Brass is any alloy of copper and zinc.
Bronze is a metal alloy consisting primarily of copper, usually with tin as the main additive, but sometimes with other elements such as phosphorus, manganese, aluminum, or silicon
Read more: Brass vs Bronze - Difference and Comparison | Diffen http://www.diffen.com/difference/Bra...#ixzz14dbhODxx
If your liner was made from a material that was hard/brittle...wouldn't you want to use a break-in procedure that would differ from one that used a soft malable liner?
I understand. My point being, if you don't know what its made of how can you specify a procedure?
You can buy a "Mill Run" of any material that you would like in any formula that you would like.
How can you contact a manufacturer and "try" to correct them when you have no earthly idea what they used to manufacture their products?
Dear Snorer,
The proper break-in procedure for any tapered-bore engine, including your MVVS cloned 'Snorer', is outlined in this RCU thread:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1850473/tm.htm
The procedure in your Snorer .49 'manual' is worthless to say the least.
It cannot possible achieve the objectives of performing a break-in and could be damaging to such an engine.
Thoroughly read the linked thread, please, to understand what I am trying to convey to you.
Please update it to conform to the ABC design of the engine.
Sincerely,
Dar Zeelon
-
11-07-2010, 06:06 PM
#68
RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
I received this email after I purchased them.
Congratulations: For your recent purchase of a Snorer Engine. R/C version
Snorer engines are manufactured in Argentina with the highest quality materials.
We highly recommend for the break -in- period to use fuel zero (0) nitro and no less of
22 per cent ( % ) oil ( preferably castor, This going to insure long life, durability and dependability of your engine. Latter 5 % nitro is enough for a good performance
I am control line flyer and my Snorer have completed last week 1758 successfully flights
in two different aircrafts, the first one was retired, and the second one is about time too.
A good after running oil is always advisable in order to keep bearings well lubricated.
Good Luck
Pedro L. Soto
Miami
Snorer Engines USA
Representative
Congratulations: For your recent purchase of a Snorer Engine. R/C version
Snorer engines are manufactured in Argentina with the highest quality materials.
We highly recommend for the break -in- period to use fuel zero (0) nitro and no less of
22 per cent ( % ) oil ( preferably castor, This going to insure long life, durability and dependability of your engine. Latter 5 % nitro is enough for a good performance
I am control line flyer and my Snorer have completed last week 1758 successfully flights
in two different aircrafts, the first one was retired, and the second one is about time too.
A good after running oil is always advisable in order to keep bearings well lubricated.
Good Luck
Pedro L. Soto
Miami
Snorer Engines USA
Representative
11-07-2010, 06:09 PM
#69
RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
Yes, as long as MVVS has stock I can order from them. They mostly do have stock if the engine is not too long out of production. Sometimes they have stock of newer parts that will fit the old engines, like quickie cylinders that fit the pylon engines. Sometimes they have stock left on the shelf of pre-private times (ussr regime memories)
Yes, as long as MVVS has stock I can order from them. They mostly do have stock if the engine is not too long out of production. Sometimes they have stock of newer parts that will fit the old engines, like quickie cylinders that fit the pylon engines. Sometimes they have stock left on the shelf of pre-private times (ussr regime memories)
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
Can you still buy parts for the MVVS engine sizes that they no longer produce?
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
When I am looking at the snorer pictures, It could have been pictures taken off MVVS engines, including all carb parts, muffler, up to the prop drive milled grooves.
BTW,
MVVS true ABC liner/piston assemblies still are available at very affordable prices.
When I am looking at the snorer pictures, It could have been pictures taken off MVVS engines, including all carb parts, muffler, up to the prop drive milled grooves.
BTW,
MVVS true ABC liner/piston assemblies still are available at very affordable prices.
11-07-2010, 06:27 PM
#70
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RE: Argentine motor ¨Snorer 49¨
Love to see it when one can make a new engine from existing parts with very little re-machining needed. 25° blow down from 145° exhaust timing coupled with the very mild early closing of 35° crank and I'm NOT surprised you have a stump puller (18k low rpm for a 4cc engine) on pipe!
All the best
Konrad
All the best
Konrad
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
When I needed a .25 engine, I married the mvvs .20 crankshaft to the .28 cylinder which used a 1mm larger stroke. Effectively, the exhaust port dropped 0.5mm, and I had to take 0.5mm off the cylinder flange top.
Timing of exhaust was 145°, transfer 95°, for a whopping blowdown of 25°.
The engine became very easy handling and has a usable power range of 12000 to 18000 rpm. Due to the large blowdown it responds to a tuned pipe with very large power increase, even at a low inlet timing of 35° atdc. The keyword here was port time/area. The large bore and very short stroke made it work like it did. MVVS adopted the idea, and now still makes them to order.
When I needed a .25 engine, I married the mvvs .20 crankshaft to the .28 cylinder which used a 1mm larger stroke. Effectively, the exhaust port dropped 0.5mm, and I had to take 0.5mm off the cylinder flange top.
Timing of exhaust was 145°, transfer 95°, for a whopping blowdown of 25°.
The engine became very easy handling and has a usable power range of 12000 to 18000 rpm. Due to the large blowdown it responds to a tuned pipe with very large power increase, even at a low inlet timing of 35° atdc. The keyword here was port time/area. The large bore and very short stroke made it work like it did. MVVS adopted the idea, and now still makes them to order.
ORIGINAL: Konrad
Picco was another brand that used pedestrian timing. These mild timings leave material on the parts to allow one to custom fit the timing to fit ones application.
I too like to set up the two stroke with the pipe. Both for noise suppression and power augmentation.
All the best,
Konrad
Picco was another brand that used pedestrian timing. These mild timings leave material on the parts to allow one to custom fit the timing to fit ones application.
I too like to set up the two stroke with the pipe. Both for noise suppression and power augmentation.
All the best,
Konrad
06-11-2014, 09:24 PM
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Snorer .55 R/C
I have this, thanks to the help of some kind gents in Argentina.
The latest (and perhaps final) iteration of the MVVS '40 case' glow engine platform, which first appeared in the 1980's.
The web site for Snorer Engines referred to earlier in this thread is no longer operative.
The latest (and perhaps final) iteration of the MVVS '40 case' glow engine platform, which first appeared in the 1980's.
The web site for Snorer Engines referred to earlier in this thread is no longer operative.
06-12-2014, 01:46 PM
#74
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I got mine courtesy of a friend in Fla. I still have it stored with Corrosion X and in its original box.. I've sold off a lot of my engines, but never a gift engine.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 06-12-2014 at 01:51 PM.