Flyer95

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Guys,
I am thinking why not break-in a Saito or any other fourstroke on a 100% castor oil based fuel?, containing atleast 20% high quality castor oil, 10-15% nitro and methanol for the balance? only for a short time like 30min. During the break in the engine is running very rich and there is little risk for carbon/ varnish build up inside of the engine. After the break in period I am gonna use a syntetic/castor oil based fuel for normal operation.

The reason I want to use this fuel is to accelerate the break in process, and to get it done in a better and a faster way. Am I wrong?

100% Castor oil based fuels are often recommended for the breake-in the twostrokes (ringed/ABC/ABN) , so why not for the fourstrokes?

So my question is if this is the best fuel for break in a fourstroke like Saito??

I know there are many engine gurus on the RCU and I hope to get many answers. Thanks

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

My old Saito .80, 1.50 and Enya .46 MKII were all three broke in on and run for three seasons on Fox 15% nitro fuel with 20% castor. Other than their mufflers getting uglied up a little, well maybe a lot, there was no castor build up inside the engines. Now 12 years later they are among the best compression holding engines I have. The .80 has enough compression to run on Davis Diesel fuel with no glow plug element in it.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I add a little caster to Omega fuel in my Four Strokes. I think the high amount of caster is important in a ringed engine expecially in the beginning.

Enjoy,

Jim

jaka

Hi!
I would say you are wrong! Or at least it isn't necessary to do what you suggest.
Just run it on 15% all synthetic oil and just fly the engine. A long running in period is not necessary in modern engines. Just run the engine rich a few tanks and then fly the engine a little rich...that is important.
As you live in Sweden (Stockholm) You have access to all the good synthetic oils, Aerosynth 2 and Aerosave at Söders R/C Hobby (www.sodersrchobby.se)and Motul "Micro" at Airracing produkter, Upplands Väsby. (www.http://hem.passagen.se/airracing).
It will not hurt the engine in any way running it on 100% castor oil but why do it when there is better oils available so close to you...?

Hälsningar!
Jan Karlsson
Väsby Modellflygare

Runway

There's a good site covering Saito at:-
http://saito-engines.info/fuel.html
Good luck
Runway

campbec

Hi Flyer95,

This is a moot point depending, bleieve it or not, on where you live. Here in Australia the newer Saito motors come with instructions that state the warranty is void if you use castor.

I think this is a reaction to many premix fuels not stating the oil %. Castor certainly gives a little more protection if run too lean but it can also lead to varnish and grunge on the valves et al.

I use a mix recommended by an Australian equilivant of Clarence Lee of 20% Coolpower Blue, 10% Nitro and 70% methanol with great results and full warranty cover.

It's your call.

Cheers,

Colin

JPMacG

My Feedback: (2)

The warranty is void if you DO use castor?

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Colin:

I find it hard to believe that Saito Australia says castor will void the warranty. Not that you aren't telling it "Like it is," just that it makes no sense to have a total ban on castor oil.

Saito in the USA has always recommended a castor blend in the fuel.

Bill.

mcs1

HI all,
i dont really know much about this but i read an article in a magazine where a brand new saito was taken apart then run on castor oil and then taken apart again and to look at the build up on the engine as a result is sickening and besides the manufacturers state that only synthetic oil should be used
Just my $0.02
Michael

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

This is a false atatement, at least in the case of Saito.

Bill.

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

This is from the manual of a Saito 90T flat twin....

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

Show me the proof....

FBD.

jaka

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

Castor will not hurt a thing in any 4 stroke. If you choose to run a full 20% castor fuel, I will add that you should never run them too lean since that is when they will carbon up the exhaust valve and start gumming the ring. I recommend blends containing at least some castor for break in, after that run all synthetic if you like and take appropriate after run care of it.

We have gone to great lengths to gum up four strokes in testing, We have found that up to 4% castor in the fuel will never build up enough varnish or carbon in a four stroke to amount to any problems. We're talking literally a thousand 12 ounce tanks worth in varying running conditions, airplanes, etc.

Flyer95

My Feedback: (1)

Hi,
Thank you everybody for your opinions on this subject. It was very helpful.

Fuelman,
Is my thinking correct that the 100% castor oil fuel blend would accelerate the break in process? Does the engine gets ready (wear in) faster?

Thanks again.

FenceMagnet

My Feedback: (2)

"Is my thinking correct that the 100% castor oil fuel blend would accelerate the break in process"

no it won't.... think about it for a minute.... the break-in process is a process of wearing off the high spots and wearing the surfaces into alignment.... wearing.... get it?.... if you try to accellerate the process, you wear too much and shorten the life of the engine.... these engines require minimum break-in these days.... fly it.... but fly it rich enough and cool enough to protect it during the early stages.... yes, castor helps here since it will remain a lubricant when the heat builds up.... only bench run it long enough for it to keep running on its own and idle well enough to keep your plane safe during a landing... instant gratification demands an OS 2 stroke and mediocrity.... patience and a good break-in reward you with a fine running easy to start engine that will be used in many airplanes....

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

No,
Castor will not accelerate the break in process.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Jaka,

You are going to have to tell me why those super-duper fuels you claim access to in Sweden are better than castor....unless you are simply stirring up things. We have access to some good lubricants too, so no need to buy it in Stockholm. The Saito books that I have indicate a little more of a break in procedure than simply burning a couple of tanks of fuel.

jamespal

Guys, my $.02:
I have two Satios, a .45 and .56. I bought both used on ebay and have rebuilt them. You wouldn't believe how gummed up the .45 was. Even on the valve stems and the lower end was full of sludge. I would never run castor in a Saito. [>:]

FenceMagnet

My Feedback: (2)

jamespal,
Isn't it possible this was from prolonged overly-rich running, not neccessarily the castor? [X(]

[:-]

MerlinL14

I have just (2 weeks ago) bought a Saito FA91S. The instructions that come with the engine say NOT to use castor based fuels, although they don't go as far as sying it will invalidate the warranty if you use castor based fuel. As far as I'm aware these instructions are not included with engines sold in the US.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Merlin:

Must be turnabout. We can't get Jaka's "Good" synthetic oil here in the USA, and you can't get good degummed castor oil there.

Bill.

depfife

My Feedback: (14)

Here is what the Version 2002 Saito Instruction Manual for Single-Cylinder 4-Stroke Engines says about fuels. This manual came with an engine purchased from Horizon in the US. I'm not going to post a picture so you will have to take my word. From page 3, under Support Equipment:

1. Fuel. For maximum protection and longevity of Saito engines, Saito recommends a fuel containing 20% oil and 10-15% nitro methane. If this blend is not readily available, the next best selection is a high quality 2-cycle glow fuel, such as Hangar 9 Aero-Blend, Omega, Cool Power, K&B, Power Master, ect. Use of fuels composed entirely of castor oil is not recommended. A mix of synthetic-castor oil is acceptable and can be found in the various fuels described above.

I run 30% Cool Power Helicopter fuel in mine, and am happy with it. And yes, I broke it in with heli fuel.

Eric

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

It looks like Mr. Saito needs to make up his mind.

Magnum 4-strokes say not to use synthetic only fuels.

Dave.

Rupurt

But my asp twin says I can I think they should ban the words castor and synthetic from the forum and have a list of the + and - of both, then people could make up there minds based on the facts.