rtparr

Have looked unsuccessfully on the net for info on Seidel's radials--displacements, prices, etc., and haven't been able to locate anything, except occasional references by people who say they are great. I don't know if they are glow, ignition or whatever. Am looking to buy a radial for my Dave Platt Waco WMF-3, and would like to cover my bases before buying. Can anybody steer me to a dealer, US or Europe? Dick

Reg Hinnant

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Hi Dick,
They used to be sold by Proctor. I have heard they will be marketed again in Europe.
They originally produced 3 models. All glow.
ST540 5 cyl - 2.388ci - 2.8 hp - 7.87 dia - 3.96lb 18x8
ST770 7 cyl - 4.174ci - 4.0 hp - 9.05 dia - 5.73lb 22x10
ST996 9 cyl - 5.800ci - 5.4 hp - 10.31 dia - 7.49lb 22x14
the original version (OS) of these engines looks like an older radial. The later version (NS)looks more like a WW2 radial (thick pushrods, etc.)
I have an original (OS) 7 cyl like the one that Charlie Nelson used in his Waco on the Scale Masters curcuit a number of years back. NIB. PM me if you would be interested

William Robison

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Dick:

Here is the [link=http://www.seidel-triebwerke.de/]Seidel[/link] web site. Currently inactive, but it comes up now and then.

Here are some pictures for you. They are all of the 14 cylinder engine.

Bill.

MinotRich

I just saw an advertisemant for these yesterday. I don't remember right offhand who is importing/distributing them here in the US. I don't have the magazine's handy for reference with me, but I'll check when I get home from work, tomorrow am. I want to say it was Rich Uravich's company in Florida. Don't give up hope! I'll check and get back with you.

Rudeboy

Supposedly they are back in production.

http://www.sonnenhof-modellbau.ch/VE...NGSMOTOREN.HTM

MinotRich

According to the July 2005 issue of Model Airplane News, Nick Ziroli Plans now distributes the Seidel engine line, including the ST525 5 cylinder (7.62CI) the ST770 7 cylinder (4.17CI) and the ST726 & cylinder (10.98CI). There's also the ST1450- twin row 14 cylinder, 30.51 cubic inch monster. This is on page 27 of the July issue. There is no phone number or address given, but I'm sure a web search or an R/C Universe search would turn up contact information for the company. Hope this helps, Rich

steve blackmore

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I'm intrested let me know. thank you steve

rtparr

Thanks to all of you for the great response to who is selling Seidel engines! I was looking for a radial to put in my Dave Platt Waco, and heard so much about it. Now I know. On a related note, I was wondering if any one out there knows how many hours you can get out of a Saito radial, specifically the 90, which is about the right size for my Waco. I contacted Technopower with the question of how many hours their radial would run without an overhaul, given today's metallurgy and manufacturing standards, and he said about 50. That doesn't seem like very many for a radial, especially if you plan to put a lot of hours (God willing) on the plane I'm finishiing. If the life of a radial is just a fraction of a twin or single cylinder, I will have to rethink my powerplant. Again, my thanks to everyone who replied. Dick

Spuetz

Hello,

I am writing from Germany. I have contributed to the topic of Seidel radials in a few other threads already. You might have seen them...

I have two 770ies (the old version of the 710) and a 996 and - naturally - am totally in love with Seidel radials. As far as TBO goes (Time between overhaul): I cannot immagine that only 50 hours is the number! Think about it this way: You are operating seven 10cc four stroke engines, each of wich never exceeds 5000 rpm... They would last forever! I have not had any problems with the radials. And they are about 10 years old or more. They start on first throw, run very very smoothly with hardly any vibration and the sound - oh the sound... Thats just unbelievable!

The down side: As much as I love the engines I don't like Seidel's customer orientation and sevice! Well, frankly, there is none!! He seems to have some kind of problem that I cannot identify, but all rumors about the availability of new Seidels are to be viewed with caution! Personally I do not believe, that Mr. Seidel will make a number of engines and deliver them any time soon... I have heard of people who ordered and paid in advance and are still waiting - after years!!! Yes, he was at the trade fair in Germany and I wonder how many angry and upset people visited his booth...
So your best bet is to get a used one....
I have a continuous search in German **** where I bought all of my Seidels. If one pops up I can let you know, if you mail me your e-mail address...
Anyway, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask...
Cheers, Martin
Here's my website where I show the process of building the cowling for the Seidel: [link=http://www.geocities.com/martinspuetz/StieglitzEnglish.html]click on me[/link]
Here are some pics of my Seidel in my Focke Wulf FW 44 "Stieglitz":

Rudeboy

I know what you mean... Me too... I'm looking for a nice Kavan 50cc twin (to use), one of the Seidels (to look at and listen to)... and perhaps an ASP 400 radial...

Ah well, I'm patient... I'll get there....

Spuetz

Hello Guys,
been talking about Seidels so much, I had to change my avatar... Now it's clearer: I am the "Seidel-Guy..."

Cheers, Martin

Reg Hinnant

My Feedback: (9)

I have a brand new ST770 for sale. I purchased it new and it has never been run. It has the rear exhaust collector & electronic glow driver. Complete with manuals, tools & wood box.
Send me a Private Message if your interested so that I can email you.

rtparr

Hi Reg--I was the original post about who is selling Seidel radials. I'm sorry to be late getting back to you, but I'm sitting over here in Norway at the moment, and I had to make a run to Sando in southern Norway to celebrate 17th of May, Norway's Fourth of July, and just got back last night. I'll be returning to the States in about ten days, to my little farm in Oregon with the million dollar view to the mountains, and my dream of doing some VR flying behind a radial engine. Let me know what you want for your Seidel. I can say right now it's too big for the Dave Platt Waco I'm finishing after almost thirty years, but there are other models I would definitely think about putting it in. It seems most people collect Seidel and Technopower radials to look at, rather than run, and I'm looking for an engine I can put hundreds of hours on. If a Seidel is a real collector's item, and if Mr. Seidel is way behind in his production as Martin Spuetz on this post noted earlier, just how does one go about getting parts to rebuild it when the time comes?

That by the side, Reg. Let me know what you're asking, and let me have your email address so I can take it with me back to the States and contact you from there later this summer if you still have it. Dick

rtparr

Hi Martin! Thanks for your offer to look for a Seidel for me. I just answered Reg about his NIB Seidel that he has offered for sale. I really need to know something about a seven-cylinder Seidel, and that is how much fuel does it use at cruise or full power, in ounces or milliliters per minute/hour? I hope to do some long distance VR flying, and I've heard radials, especially glow, are hard on fuel. If Reg can't answer the question I put to him about spare parts, can you? If Mr. Seidel is way behind on his orders, and you either wear out your Seidel or damage the engine, what kind of a problem do you have getting spare parts for it? How much of this engine has he machined himself, and how much has he incorporated from other engine manufacturers? Dick

Spuetz

Hello Dick,

first off: what is VR flying? Is it, what I think it is? You put a camera in the airplane and fly it over distance - say sitting in a car following it? Or what is it?

Not many people have experience with figuers such as consumption of a well run in, well tuned Seidel and I don't either. I put a one litre (about a quart) tank in my Stieglitz and I fly for about half an hour max before I want to land. But I have never measured how much I have actually consumed cause I just refuel for the next flight and at the end of the day I just pump out whatever was left... I have a feeling it is about a quart an hour. Then again I am running the engine rather on the rich side - to keep it lubricated... Must do those checks though next time - like fly for exactly 30 minutes, then land and see how much is left... Will do that

As for spare parts: Expecially for the 770 which isn't produced anymore (it is the predecessor of the 710) the answer is simple: There are none! Seidel's boxes are empty as far as I know.
Collectors might have some. I do : Just bought a whole bunch of parts from someone who used to be affiliated with Seidel. It is in a mail truck on the way to me as we are speaking. So an occasional rocker wouldn't be a problem. But if you want to replace the cam wheel because it is worn out - I have only one and I will most probably keep it for my onw engines... What I could do is measure parts so they can be reproduced... But I think there is not much of a market for it, since, as you mentioned earlier, most owners don't seem to run their Seidels much... Let me review the collection once it gets here and then I will be able to tell you more about what treasures I found.
Having said this, my advice is: get the Seidel anyhow. The 770ies are rare! and they are beautiful! Also consider this: what will break on them? As I have mentioned in an earlier post: Picture seven 60-size OS-Four-Strokes running at 5000 rpm max! They will last forever!
Hope this helps,
Cheers, Martin

Spuetz

Hi Dick,
forgot to answer your last question:

I believe he made all of it! can't see any parts - apart from the carburettor - that were taken from another engine.

Cheers, Martin

Reg Hinnant

My Feedback: (9)

Hi Dick & Martin,
Martin, I think we have talked before on other items. You are the Seidel guy! Dick, Martin has most of your answers.
#1. I cannot believe you would ever "wear" the engine out with how robust they are built.
#2. However breaking parts will be a problem to get replacments as all of the parts were unique.
#3. Martins guess on the fuel consumption should be about right. They are not fuel sippers nor were the full size radials.
The ST770 is a beauty in appearance. I purchased this one due to several people assuring me that they were powerful & reliable enough to be truly used and then I, like many others put it away to be looked at and waited for a fellow to finish up plans for a Meyers OTW biplane for it. That never came about so I never even ran this engine. (I have a video of one running)
I sent a PM with my email address.

rtparr

Hi Martin--wrote you a fairly long letter here on the forum, only to have it disappear at the last moment as I was getting ready to send it. Don't know where it vanished, so here's my second attempt. VR flying (Virtual Reality) is installing a wireless video camera in your plane, putting on a set of VR goggles or head piece, and flying your airplane as if you were sitting in it. You don't have to follow in a car to keep it in sight. It's a very interesting aspect of model flying, and there is a lot of equipment out there reasonably priced for doing it. Most systems on the market are line of sight, and depending upon your antenna and transmitter, you can range up to four or five miles. Check out rc-cam.com forum, under the heading "Wireless Video Cameras . . .". There are several web sites, "Wireless Video Cameras" and"Black Widow Wireless Video Equipment" that are worth looking in to. A lot of the equipment, especially the video cameras and goggles show up on ebay. An exciting sport!

Please keep in contact, Martin. My email address here in Norway is [email protected]

I will be returning to the States though in about a week. My address in Oregon, where I have a small farm, is:

Richard Parr
10124 Friendly Acres Road
Aumsville, Oregon 97325 USA

503-749-2202

I will be at the above address from the first week in June until the end of November before coming back here. It's called a cross-cultural marriage and having to maintain two households. Keep me posted on your interest in VR flying. I think being able to take off and land your big biplane from the cockpit would be a real experience, not to mention being able to fly it up to four or five thousand meters vertically and horizontally, airspace restrictions observed. In the US you can fly up to 14,500 feet without permission. Higher than that and you are in commercial airspace. Don't know about Germany.

Email if you would so I can have your address to take with me. Dick

Spuetz

Hello Dick,

I sent you a pm with my details.
Wow, VR-Flying seems like a boyhood dream come true! Very exciting.

Although, something's strange about my flying preferences: See, I have flown full size airplanes for almost 25 years now. (startet real real early). But when the weather is bright I find myself on the model airfield and not on the airstrip where I actually have an airplane of my own. I have wondered why for a while and then I came up with this answer:

What I like most about aviation is - airplanes!
It is not "flying" that I like best, but I just love the machines, that do the flying. I love the way they look, the way they move through the air. The elegant curve they fly when they flare for landing, the powerful lift offs. the agility in aerobatics.

And when I fly my own airplane, I don't see all that. I am actually sitting in a noisy box - not taking advantage of the fine weather. (I guess I should sell my Bonanza and by a Bipe or so...)
But when I fly my models, I can both see them fly and control them at the same time. That's what I like about it. And all the while I am outdoors, enjoying the fresh air and (hopefully) sunshine..

There seem to be hardly any people that understand this philosophy. They think I am nuts or something. Don't most non-aviators think that model flying is for those, who would like to fly "real airplanes" but are too poor or too scared to do it. Like a substitute for the "real thing"? And they are probably right for a lot of model pilots. So they shake their head when I tell them that I actually do have my pilots licensce with multi engine and instrument privileges - the whole lot - but prefer to fly models...

Having said all this I must say that this VR-thing is still an intriguing idea... Must check it out...

Cheers, Martin

Reg Hinnant

My Feedback: (9)

Hey Dick,
What I want to know ..........Is there a different wife at each household?

Martin,
I agree with you on the flying full size. If I had one it would be a open air biplane but its still a noisy box with no top. Sailing has been more satisfying in that respect.
Your craftsmanship is also apparent which adds to your enjoyment but if you are like me there is no desire to build a full size airplane. ( I built full size sailboats)

There is a gentleman in San Antonio that has several 5 cyl Seidels that he flys on a regular basis in Proctor N28 models.

rtparr

Hi Martin! Wie Gehts? (Auf zwei Beine, naturlich!) I used to be an undergraduate and graduate German scholar at Sacramento and San Francisco State Collete back in the Sixties, but I opted instead for a bacculaureate in math and later, a doctorate in English and linguistics from the U. of Oregon at Eugene. I just spent half an hour crafting a nice letter to you, only to have it disappear when I hit the OK button, with the ubiquitous message that I had overstayed my welcome on the forum. Anyway, second time around. I totally agree with you about the beauty of flying a beautifully crafted model like the one you made, seeing it take off and controlling it through the sky, rather than the actual flying itself. Can't understand your friends unless they've never flown. I flew solo a Cessna 140 when I was sixteen (I'm 66 now), and I have to say, after two hours of flight time at 1500 meters, it was BORING! I got in 26 hours before I ran out of money. If you have a multi-engine and instrument rating, along with helicopter, I can understand that you're probably tired of the view through the plexiglass. Myself, I wanted to skim those wheat fields and forests, explore the corridors inside a big hammer-headed cumulus and experience the updrafts, until my instuctor asked me how long I planned to live. And that ended that. He himself, a WW-II four-engine Martin flying boat pilot, died crashing upside down in his Stearman sprayer at night in a Texas ag field. Disoriented. Myself, I still yearn to fly a biplane with a radial, looking out over the cowling at the green green grass of home. What do you do down in Cologne to keep out of trouble, besides dreaming about that little retirement home in Alice Springs? Dick

rtparr

Reg! I don't know if a wife in each household would be a curse or a blessing! I've thought about it, but at sixty-six that's as far as it gets. Thoughts. I will say no more!

The Dave Platt Waco YMF-3 I'm building is a 1/6th scale with a 60-inch wingspan. There is another Waco kit out there, a 1/5th scale. Can't remember the wingspan. 72-inch? Would your 770 Seidel radial still be too big for this model. Can't remember the scale-size prop it takes. Dick

Reg Hinnant

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Here is the plane that needs to be modeled for the Seidel engine.
Dick here are the specs. You would need a scale airplane size that would call for a 9.05 dia engine to look right, swinging a 22x10 prop.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Reg:

Looks like a cross between a Fleet and a Detroit-Parks. So maybe it's a Standard?

Bill.

Spuetz

Hello Bill, hello Reg,

that is a Standard. 1929 I would say. Go "google" "pictures" "standard biplane" and you get more pictures. I remembered that Waldo flew a standard. Was an affordable airplane at the time. I would loooooove to have that as a model! Looks great! Exactly the way it is with those colors and all...

By the way: I am using Menz 24x10 on my Seidel. But I know that there are guys who use 24x8 or 22x10. I guess I should think about it. It just happens so, that I had mahagony-sycamore laminated props made by Mr. Menz.
My next props will be walnut-white birch. Maybe I'll try a Menz 24x8 instead before I'll have them made. I wouldn't go smaller than 24 for scale reasons though... And also the airplane is not supposed to be fast, so going down on the pitch while keeping the diameter might be a good idea...