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Old 04-28-2008, 03:01 PM
  #10751  
Michaelh
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Yeah anytime you up the voltage you cut the amps.

This is why your 1500watt heater at the house only draws around 12-13 amps.

Try that with 12v .Would be around 125 amps.
Old 04-28-2008, 03:32 PM
  #10752  
JNorton
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: Michaelh

Yeah anytime you up the voltage you cut the amps.

This is why your 1500watt heater at the house only draws around 12-13 amps.

Try that with 12v .Would be around 125 amps.
Try it. The DC current will double. A DC motor is basically a fixed resistor. Run any DC motor on a variable DC supply with a volt and a amp meter and you'll see what I'm talking about. They do not act like AC motors which is what you are describing.
John
Old 04-28-2008, 04:55 PM
  #10753  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I was having the same problem starting my 180. I went to Batteries Plus and bought an 11 mah battery that still fit into my field box. It was not much bigger than my 7 mah battery. It cost me 29.00. Now even my cheap Hobbico 90 sterter will start the 180 with no problems.
Club Saito Member #591
Old 04-28-2008, 04:55 PM
  #10754  
clutchbob
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Yeah anytime you up the voltage you cut the amps.

This is why your 1500watt heater at the house only draws around 12-13 amps.

Try that with 12v .Would be around 125 amps.
Sorry, you are wrong.
Your 1500 watt heater puts out 1500 watts of power because you have 110 - 120 volts applied across it.
Power (watts) equals the voltage times the current (amps). 120V X 12A = 1440 Watts. If the heater is drawing 12 Amps, it's resistance must be 10 Ohms. Since voltage equals resistance times current, 12 Volts across a 10 Ohm load would draw only 1.2 Amps. This is called Ohm's law, basic electronics.
Old 04-28-2008, 05:09 PM
  #10755  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Is there a list of everyone in the group and their Saito Club number ? If so, could you post it so we could have a copy.

Jim R
Saito Club #510 (I think)

Old 04-28-2008, 05:41 PM
  #10756  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

yeah the battery i was using was a 18ah rating. quite big and it was quite heavy.

just tried it again and i couldn't get it to turn over very well. maybe my battery is getting old. but i've tried that other portable one as well that has 300 cranks amps rating... used to jumping cars,etc. no different with it?
Old 04-28-2008, 05:59 PM
  #10757  
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As I mentioned above, the ohms law that applies to resistence heaters does not apply to starters. A 300 amp garden tractor makes a Sullivan Dynatron start a Zenoah G45 or a SuperTigre 4500 converted to Diesel effortlessly.
Old 04-28-2008, 07:25 PM
  #10758  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I had a friend who was trying to start a Zenoah G-38 Gas engine.

He had the Hobbico Heavy Duty Starter

He had two 12v small motor cycle batteries in series for 24v and the starter wouldn't turn the G-38 over

So he hooked the starter to the 12v battery in his new Ford F150 with the truck engine running.

The HD Hobbico starter whipped the G-38 around and she started right up.

I use the Dynatron starter with a Garden tractor battery on my Saito 150.
Old 04-28-2008, 09:24 PM
  #10759  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Yea i have been having problems lately getting my little Hobbico Starter to turn over my OS .61 and Beleive it or not a .46 it wouldnt turn it over think my little hobby battery is wearing out. Gonna have to start doing it off the truck.. But the little hobbico battery was so convienent may just replace it it is a year old but i would think it would have lasted longer.

Dynatron Starter sounds like a good one. Hmmm Something to consider adding to the hobby box.
Old 04-28-2008, 10:10 PM
  #10760  
w8ye
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

The Dynatron spins at a slower speed than the Tower/Hobbico Heavy Duty starter but it has a lot of power.


Old 04-28-2008, 10:13 PM
  #10761  
clutchbob
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My new Saito 72 is running great on my break- in stand, however, I'm a little anxious about mounting it to my airframe. I'm mounting it inverted to an ARF and have only one heigth to mount the fuel tank, the spray bar will be an inch below the tank centerline. I'm hoping this won't be problematic.
I've been reading through this exhausting but informative thread and haven't seen this issue come up. I would love to mount the tank more ideally, but I don't see a way, yet. These ARFs shouldn't be so ARFing ARFy. [sm=angry.gif]
Old 04-28-2008, 10:16 PM
  #10762  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

My Sullivan Dynatron and a garden tractor 12V battery spins ALL of my Saitos over, and starts them seemingly without effort.

The HARDEST part is maintaining contact with the spinner! The Dynatron tries to spin free from the prop spinner cone. I have even LAUNCHED the rubber insert from my Dynatron! There is a lot of force there, if you are spinning a larger engine, like a 1.80.

I think a speed-reduction attachment would make the Dynatron a lot easier to handle. Sullivan sells such an attachment!

However, I can't imagine a Dynatron on 24 volts! That would spin the motor WAY too fast, in my opinion. (However, I admit that I haven't actually TRIED 24V....)
Old 04-28-2008, 10:22 PM
  #10763  
w8ye
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Go ahead and try your 72. It may run OK.

I've seen guys close their needle valve and open it while the starter is turning the engine

Other guys have used a Cline regulator. The Perry pump does not help.
Old 04-28-2008, 11:23 PM
  #10764  
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My tank in my pitts 40 is higher then the spray bar on my saito .62 not very much maybe 1/4 inch Higher and it seems to run fine. i have not yet maidened the plane. But i'm pretty sure it going to run good. Run fine on the ground and the engine is inverted.
Old 04-29-2008, 03:36 PM
  #10765  
Michaelh
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

All I can say is . If you know so much about electricity why are you so confused? the Heater was a reference point.

I speak the truth. I Know what Im talking about on this. Been watching it happen with my electrics for years now! Plus the Electronics in High School helped a bit also.

Resistance has nothing to do with it. A motors KV is not going to change just from the voltage.

Voltage x amps = watts Watts/voltage=amps the figure I put up is correct BTW.





And thats all I have to say about that.
Old 04-29-2008, 06:56 PM
  #10766  
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What was it E = Voltage / I = Amps /R = Resitance/W = Watts / PF = Power Factor / Eff = Efficiency / HP = Horsepower here use this to find any value that is missing it's what i learned to use in aeronautical school.. A good Scientific calculator helps alot too..

Here's a link to a page with other formulas as well for finding an electrical factor if the Other factor is known.

http://www.elec-toolbox.com/Formulas...l/formulas.htm

I'm sure there are others.. But this thread is about Saito Engines so i dont want to stray from the subject.
Lots of web sites on the subject.. HAd to take alot of electrical courses in Aeronautical school. But it Sure has helped out alot in many ways.. A great subject to study it can get indepth. efficency, Inductive reactance of coils, Inductive capatcitance of coils, ect..

I'm to lazy to figure out the heater but maybe someone else will care too. I hooked my Hobbico starter up to my car battery and my hobby battery and dont see any difference in its power turning ability. Maybe 2 batteries would make a difference. But i'm not to concerned i'll just get a better starter for turning over bigger engines my gas plane i just turn the ignition on and hand flip them and they start no starter required. But i am getting a 120 nitro engine here soon and will have to upgrade to a bigger and better Starter cause the hobbico one sucks, but it was cheap..you get what you pay for..lol

When i get a Newer and better starter i'll hook 2 car batteries together in Parallel and see if i can't fri that thing. lol
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:35 PM
  #10767  
w8ye
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This is enough about OHM's law. Lets get back to the subject Saito engines
Old 04-29-2008, 08:39 PM
  #10768  
stallwart
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: clutchbob

My new Saito 72 is running great on my break- in stand, however, I'm a little anxious about mounting it to my airframe. I'm mounting it inverted to an ARF and have only one heigth to mount the fuel tank, the spray bar will be an inch below the tank centerline. I'm hoping this won't be problematic.
I've been reading through this exhausting but informative thread and haven't seen this issue come up. I would love to mount the tank more ideally, but I don't see a way, yet. These ARFs shouldn't be so ARFing ARFy. [sm=angry.gif]

If you experience problems, use a bit more tubing for the feed line and let it loop below the tank and back up to the fuel nipple. It might be possible reversing this would help.
Old 04-30-2008, 02:51 PM
  #10769  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I noticed when I installed the velocity stack on my 72 along with the Dubro filter that the engine mount was a good bit in the way. I was able to push the filter aside to install the engine on the mount.
Everyone have that problem?

Shack
#580[&:]
Old 04-30-2008, 03:02 PM
  #10770  
Shack
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I need to order a mount for the 82a I will use on my Sr. Slo Motion. I am partial to the Dubro mounts but don't know which to use. Any suggestions?

Tower # Dubro#
DUBG1304 682 .45-.80 four stroke

or

DUBG1306 686 .80-.91 four stroke

They are kind of expensive so I want to get the right one.

Shack
Old 04-30-2008, 03:59 PM
  #10771  
waterloged
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Hey if your looking for a plant to put it in i'll gladly put it in one of mine..(LOL...LOL)[)]
Old 04-30-2008, 07:36 PM
  #10772  
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Use the smaller mount
DUBG1304 682 .45-.80 four stroke

Old 04-30-2008, 07:57 PM
  #10773  
clutchbob
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I noticed when I installed the velocity stack on my 72 along with the Dubro filter that the engine mount was a good bit in the way. I was able to push the filter aside to install the engine on the mount.
Everyone have that problem?
I will have to do the same or grind away some of the motor mount, but grinding is probably not a good idea.
The filter will still function pushed aside, I might secure it with a tie wrap.

If you experience problems, use a bit more tubing for the feed line and let it loop below the tank and back up to the fuel nipple. It might be possible reversing this would help.
Thanks, Stallwart. Great Idea.
Old 05-03-2008, 11:12 AM
  #10774  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hi Saito Lovers
I need some advice, I run a Saito 100 in my Fliton Extra 330 Freestyle.
I use an APC 15X6 on 15% with a Saito plug and am getting 9400 rpm.
I know it sounds greedy but I’d like to see if I can get a bit more power.
How much of an increase in RPM do you think I could get if I switch to 30%?
My thoughts are that if I can get another 3 or 400 RPM I could use a bigger prop, maybe a 16X4W. I know that will drop the RPM again but hopefully no lower than 9300 or 9400 I started with.
Also is it worthwhile changing to an OS F type plug?

Many thanks
Don
Old 05-03-2008, 11:21 AM
  #10775  
w8ye
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I doubt if you will see any difference using an OS "F" plug

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