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  1. #15351

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ok I was saying how great my 82's were
    More info on Saito\'s http://saito-engines.info/
    Club Saito #542

  2. #15352
    ILv2Xlr8's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: w8ye
    While in the area I went to another guys house who had a old model Saito 72 that had never been run. When he started to run the engine, it seized up. When disassembled, the rod had frozen onto the crankshaft. After some struggle we got the rod off the crank and naturally it was galled in the big end. I worked with the rod with clean oil and a rag putting it on the crank pin and twisting until it seemed to be free enough to run. We ran it for a couple hours on the back porch railing and it seemed to be fine. I got the engine running without having to wait for a new rod. The moral to this story is that you should not buy an engine and let it set around for 7 years before you run it. The warrentee expired about 4 years ago.
    I experienced the same thing with an old 72 that seized up right after 10 min on its first run. The crankshaft had a burr on it that binded the piston connecting rod to the crankshaft. It also appears the end of the crankshaft was rubbing up against the plastic back plate.

    I wonder how many of the early 72s had this problem?

  3. #15353
    TexasSkyPilot's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    50 RPM? I'm gonna guess your multiplier was off, and say you were at 500 RPM.

    Jim
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  4. #15354

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Saito 100. I guess I left out the important part .
    ORIGINAL: w8ye

    What engine?
    Club Saito Member 354

  5. #15355
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    From Seany Chin
    Powermaster 20/20 fuel
    Master Airscrew 14x7 3-blade = 9500 rpm
    Graupner 14x7 3-blade = 8700 rpm
    Master Airscrew 14x7 Scimitar 2-blade @ 10100 peak
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  6. #15356

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hi All,

    After flying two-strokes for some time, I decided to try a four-stroke earlier this year. Settled on an FA-82a to power a CMPro Edge 540. I received some excellent advice about break-in in other threads but I've just realised that I hadn't posted here yet. So just thought I'd say "Hello".

    Haven't had a lot of time to fly the Saito but took it to the field on Saturday and ran about half a gallon through it. I originally had some trouble getting it to idle slowly enough to land, but, as was suggested, a few flights have improved it considerably.

    I was expecting it to have more torque than my two-strokes but I'd have to say that the difference is astonishing. It takes off in about 10 feet on half-throttle and the take-off roll is almost non-existent at full throttle. I'm impressed! And the guys in the club tell me that it will just keep getting better as I fly it. It's easy to see why people like Saitos so much.

    As I said, it's idling pretty well now and will go straight to full throttle with no hesitation. But I did notice that it has now become a tiny bit uneven in the first third of throttle travel. It's not enough to cause any problems, but should I be tweaking the needles this early in its life or just fly a couple more gallons through it and adjust them then? It's been run for 20-30 minutes on the ground as per the manual and then about 2/3 of a gallon in the air.

    Cheers,
    Paul.



  7. #15357
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Good one mate
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  8. #15358
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hi and yes 500 sounds better,good transition? as i'm going down the same road,150 size scale models need an fg 36 gas motor.
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  9. #15359
    TexasSkyPilot's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Paul49,

    You've had it running plenty long to start tweaking your needles. If it's starting to get a little funny in the first third I'd trim down your top end needle a little bit, say, about a 1/4-turn for starters (you're starting to need it less rich all-over), and then start turning your idle mixture screw in and testing the response from idle and up through transition.

    Remember to carefully count your turns and write them down first before you ever start it. It's always good to be able to go back to a place where you know you were okay. Then keep track of the turns as you go. I think you may be surprised how different they'll be set now that you've done a good job of breaking it in.

    Jim
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  10. #15360
    TexasSkyPilot's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: rustypep

    I was just curious what RPM you guys might be getting with a MAS 14x7 three blade on 15% Omega for a Saito 100? Thanks!
    The Saito manual says it requires a 20% oil content that is not entirely castor if possible. I use the Powermaster 20/20 blend for Saitos and YS. Mine is a little higher nitro content than they recommend, but the motor seems to love the fuel. It didn't love the 15/18 4-stroke Wildcat I had previously used for my older Saitos, but I'm thinking that might have been that it was tight during the break-in period. Still, it responded to the 20/20 right away and ran great.

    I can feel the difference after just about 6 tanks now, it's running strong, has higher RPMs and idles like a bear. Don't ask me how a bear sounds when it idles or I'll have to get into sound effects!

    Jim
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  11. #15361
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Paul, I like to use easily remembered and repeatable methods of doing things, I use this to get the 40 minutes run in time recommended by Saito.
    10 minutes at 4,000 rpm
    10 minutes at 5,000 rpm
    10 minutes at 6,000 rpm
    refill fuel tank on test stand
    10 minutes at 7,000 with short runs to peak
    Next set HS needle at absolute peak, (temporarily)
    Now procede to lean LS needle 1/8th turn at a time checking transition and peak after every other change, at some point one of the 1/8th turns will make more difference than the previous ones. You're getting close, now, find the best transition being willing to settle for a slightly higher idle rpm if that's what it takes to get the best transition. The best idle and transition usually go hand in hand but not always. Now richen top rpm down about 200 and go fly. Sometimes a lousy fuel tank location requires a richer HS needle to avoid leaning near the end of the fuel supply.
    John Deere 820, 72.82 HP @ 1,125 rpm, 470.7 cu. in., bore=6.125", stroke=8.00", two cylinder. CR=16 to 1.
    Starter=V-4 pony motor.

    Club Saito member #5

  12. #15362
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Saito .80 and TurboHeader

    Old High compression Saito .80, 20 or so years old
    Fuel===WildCat 15% Premium Extra
    Plug===Fox Miracle
    Prop===Bolly 13.5x6
    RPM with new style cast muffler============10,150

    RPM with new style welded TurboHeader/baffle==10,351

    As you can see the engine is quite skinned up but runs like a Swiss watch.

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    John Deere 820, 72.82 HP @ 1,125 rpm, 470.7 cu. in., bore=6.125", stroke=8.00", two cylinder. CR=16 to 1.
    Starter=V-4 pony motor.

    Club Saito member #5

  13. #15363

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hi

    I have an inverted 125 and was using an on board glow system but the back fires on start up were so bad and often that I start using a normal glow driver which has helped tremendously (but I still dare not prime it or flip the prop before applying the starter).

    Has any one else found an on board glow (with current sensing) to be problematic with an inverted motor ?
    Is there anything else one can do prevent/minimise backfires on start up ?

    Thanks
    Tim
    regards
    Tim

  14. #15364
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I've never had to use an on board glow system because the motor's inverted on ether a 2 or 4 stroke.

    Is your tank level with the carb barrel? I used a dremel with a sanding drum to modify the formers so the tank would fit properly.
    John
    Have desk ... Will Fly.... Saito Member #467
    Ultimate Brotherhood #11, Ultra Sport Brotherhood #90

  15. #15365
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: JNorton

    I've never had to use an on board glow system because the motor's inverted on ether a 2 or 4 stroke.

    Is your tank level with the carb barrel? I used a dremel with a sanding drum to modify the formers so the tank would fit properly.
    John
    I agree. My feeling is that a correctly tuned engine, with a properly installed fuel system, and a good glow plug, needs no "crutch" like an on board glow. As noted, make sure your fuel system isn't siphoning to the carb on it's own. A loop in the fuel line which takes it above the carb is sometimes helpful. This is assuming that the valves are in adjustment and no one has fooled with the timing.
    Cheers,
    Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

  16. #15366
    ram3500-RCU's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

    Saito .80 and TurboHeader

    Old High compression Saito .80, 20 or so years old
    Fuel===WildCat 15% Premium Extra
    Plug===Fox Miracle
    Prop===Bolly 13.5x6
    RPM with new style cast muffler============10,150

    RPM with new style welded TurboHeader/baffle==10,351

    As you can see the engine is quite skinned up but runs like a Swiss watch.

    How about the sound?
    Cheers,
    Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

  17. #15367
    Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    The sound is deeper and more authoritative but not louder.
    John Deere 820, 72.82 HP @ 1,125 rpm, 470.7 cu. in., bore=6.125", stroke=8.00", two cylinder. CR=16 to 1.
    Starter=V-4 pony motor.

    Club Saito member #5

  18. #15368
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Actually, when I invert a Saito I use on-board glow for idle dependability and low-end as well.

    That being said, kicking back on a Saito says to me loud and clear....TOO RICH. A big Saito like that being set too rich means cuts and bruises and banged fingers. Drove me crazy until I figured that out. I almost threw away a Saito 150 from that.

    Also, make sure you don't have any spring-loaded fuelers with that, you'll have to set it too rich. Use a positive-seal plug in your fueler. Too much vacuum in a Saito, they can pull air right into some of those spring-loaded dots. You tune (richen) to compensate, and things just get crazy from there.

    Jim
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  19. #15369

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hello everyone. Y'all seem to be a very helpful group, so I am hoping you can help me out. I have an older FA91 that was running pretty good, had a small crash no noticable damage. The first flight after plane repair was great, engine was awesome. Second flight, not so good. The engine runs good up to about 1/3 throttle after that it starts leaning out really bad. I replaced all the fuel lines and checked the tank and everything seems good. I tried to run it again and ended up backing the needle valve all the way out and it was still lean on the high end. Any help would be greatly appreciated. This is my first Saito by the way. It was great up till now.

    Brad

  20. #15370
    ram3500-RCU's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Sounds like dirt in there. Could have worked its way into a bad spot during that first flight after the crash. I would take the needle assembly completely apart and clean throughly on a clean white cloth so you can see what comes out. Add a fuel filter to the supply line for awhile, and see if you catch anything. Normally, I don't like on-board filters and prefer to filter the fuel as I load it so as to keep the system clean.
    Cheers,
    Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

  21. #15371

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Paul , with my experience with the .82's you can expect around a 600-800 rpm gain from initial break in to full break in (on 15%). You'll notice your low end is going to richen up as it breaks in also
    the low end will just keep getting better and better . My initial low end rpm's are about 2700 at first and I settle to 2000 , although I can go lower this seems to be the best all around
    idle rpm to me .
    More info on Saito\'s http://saito-engines.info/
    Club Saito #542

  22. #15372
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: BChris

    Hello everyone. Y'all seem to be a very helpful group, so I am hoping you can help me out. I have an older FA91 that was running pretty good, had a small crash no noticable damage. The first flight after plane repair was great, engine was awesome. Second flight, not so good. The engine runs good up to about 1/3 throttle after that it starts leaning out really bad. I replaced all the fuel lines and checked the tank and everything seems good. I tried to run it again and ended up backing the needle valve all the way out and it was still lean on the high end. Any help would be greatly appreciated. This is my first Saito by the way. It was great up till now.

    Brad
    The low speed needle is in too far

    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  23. #15373

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    No need for onboard IMO . I run all inverted setups and a reliable idle is had with proper tuning.
    Even a heavily oiled 30% will see a reliable idle with the right tuning inverted .
    More info on Saito\'s http://saito-engines.info/
    Club Saito #542

  24. #15374
    TexasSkyPilot's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Bchris,
    Is your fuel system sealed, or are you using a fueler like a dot?
    Jim
    J.M. Surra, author of AERODYNAMIC and
    T.I.T.O.R. - In early July of 1947, something crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. . .

  25. #15375

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hi

    I have an inverted 125 and was using an on board glow system but the back fires on start up were so bad and often that I start using a normal glow driver which has helped tremendously (but I still dare not prime it or flip the prop before applying the starter).

    Has any one else found an on board glow (with current sensing) to be problematic with an inverted motor ?
    Is there anything else one can do prevent/minimise backfires on start up ?

    Thanks
    Tim
    The on board glow is not stricly needed - it just allows the motor idle slower.
    I will look at tank height also my fuel line makes a slight loop below the carb ,not above, maybe lifting it will help.
    BTW the motor has about a gallon through it - I have leaned the low end till it wants to back fire on throttle up so I dont think that I am too rich on the low end.
    Apart from the back fires I much prefere the 4 stroke to 2 strokes !

    Thanks
    Tim
    regards
    Tim


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