Welcome to Club SAITO !
11-28-2010, 08:46 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: w8ye
K,
You need to go look at how a 300 is made.
There is no need for a baffle on the 300 even if the carbs were set up as on the 130. The 300 comes as both dual and single carb versions and there is no interference between cylinders
K,
You need to go look at how a 300 is made.
There is no need for a baffle on the 300 even if the carbs were set up as on the 130. The 300 comes as both dual and single carb versions and there is no interference between cylinders
Anytime you have the inlets to any system pointed as close to each other as the 1.30's you will get a loss of intake efficiency. Be her an even or odd firing engine.
What do you mean by "interference between cylinders", inlet interference?
Are you saying the single carbed 300 has the same power as the dual carbed ("no interference between cylinders") 300s
All the best,
Konrad
11-28-2010, 08:50 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
hey guys a little off subject but i need some help. I need a new electric starter for 60 size and up glow engines, i kinda want a cordless type i see around alot. but as usual cost will decide if i go that way, any suggestions? thanks for any help
11-28-2010, 08:58 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I've got one of these on a Sullivan Dynatron starter. I REALLY like it. I charge it about once a month. I've got the drill as well so it's got dual use(s)
http://www.afineredgemfg.com/
http://www.afineredgemfg.com/
11-28-2010, 09:15 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Dave,
On another note, I know you have quite the prop collection. Do you have a 3 bladed Graupner 12 x 8 ? Or have you ever run a 3 blade prop on a FA-100 Saito? Looking for a starting point on a prop size.
Andy
On another note, I know you have quite the prop collection. Do you have a 3 bladed Graupner 12 x 8 ? Or have you ever run a 3 blade prop on a FA-100 Saito? Looking for a starting point on a prop size.
Andy
11-28-2010, 09:15 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Konrad
Yes Saito made a single carbed and single glow plugged (per cylinder) 300s. So?
Anytime you have the inlets to any system pointed as close to each other as the 1.30's you will get a loss of intake efficiency. Be her an even or odd firing engine.
What do you mean by "interference between cylinders", inlet interference?
Are you saying the single carbed 300 has the same power as the dual carbed ("no interference between cylinders") 300s
All the best,
Konrad
ORIGINAL: w8ye
K,
You need to go look at how a 300 is made.
There is no need for a baffle on the 300 even if the carbs were set up as on the 130. The 300 comes as both dual and single carb versions and there is no interference between cylinders
K,
You need to go look at how a 300 is made.
There is no need for a baffle on the 300 even if the carbs were set up as on the 130. The 300 comes as both dual and single carb versions and there is no interference between cylinders
Anytime you have the inlets to any system pointed as close to each other as the 1.30's you will get a loss of intake efficiency. Be her an even or odd firing engine.
What do you mean by "interference between cylinders", inlet interference?
Are you saying the single carbed 300 has the same power as the dual carbed ("no interference between cylinders") 300s
All the best,
Konrad
You have never bothered to look at how either is made. You need to go back and do a little looking at how they are made and do a little figuring on the mechanics of what makes one style work and what makes the other kind work.
11-28-2010, 09:26 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: w8ye
What I'm saying is that you don't know what you are talking about comparing a Saito 130T with a 300T.
You have never bothered to look at how either is made. You need to go back and do a little looking at how they are made and do a little figuring on the mechanics of what makes one style work and what makes the other kind work.
ORIGINAL: Konrad
Yes Saito made a single carbed and single glow plugged (per cylinder) 300s. So?
Anytime you have the inlets to any system pointed as close to each other as the 1.30's you will get a loss of intake efficiency. Be her an even or odd firing engine.
What do you mean by ''interference between cylinders'', inlet interference?
Are you saying the single carbed 300 has the same power as the dual carbed (''no interference between cylinders'') 300s
All the best,
Konrad
ORIGINAL: w8ye
K,
You need to go look at how a 300 is made.
There is no need for a baffle on the 300 even if the carbs were set up as on the 130. The 300 comes as both dual and single carb versions and there is no interference between cylinders
K,
You need to go look at how a 300 is made.
There is no need for a baffle on the 300 even if the carbs were set up as on the 130. The 300 comes as both dual and single carb versions and there is no interference between cylinders
Anytime you have the inlets to any system pointed as close to each other as the 1.30's you will get a loss of intake efficiency. Be her an even or odd firing engine.
What do you mean by ''interference between cylinders'', inlet interference?
Are you saying the single carbed 300 has the same power as the dual carbed (''no interference between cylinders'') 300s
All the best,
Konrad
You have never bothered to look at how either is made. You need to go back and do a little looking at how they are made and do a little figuring on the mechanics of what makes one style work and what makes the other kind work.
Engineering is the art of compromise! I want to know what was gained by pointing the carbs at each other? There are so many custom parts for the 1.30 I can't think commonality to a single cylinder engine was much of a concern when this engine was on the drawing board.
So what am I missing. Or what will I learn if I take a closer look at how the engine is made? I still see flow restriction in the way Saito set up the 1.30s inlet tract.
All the best,
Konrad
11-28-2010, 10:47 PM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Konrad
Mr. Lee is not worthy of what? He is one of the great engine designer from the great age of model engines!
Now the hobby catalog known as R/C Modeler, well......
Now if you read his engine reviews in RCM and then his Engine Clinic. You will learn what I mean by bias towards the advertisers. In his review of an ABN engine he would say things like the liner is plated with OS's fine hard coating or he might have slipped and called it what it was electroless nickel. But in his great Engine Clinic he would say that Chrome was a much better plating for the ringless aluminum piston engine. As it was much harder and also offer some last bit of protection from a lean run as it micro cracked, which leaked oil to protect the piston. Electroless nickel does not have these properties.
As you can see in the review he was selling an engine for the guy that paid for the publication. In his Clinic he was trying to give you insight into what made a great engine.
So I still stand by my statement that articles published in the dead tree press are suspect. Having had to deal with the moderation policies of this site I'm now having to second guess my position about user generated content forms as the moderators also seem to inhibit free thoughtful discussion about products. This seems to be done only to protect their site sponsors. But for now, it is still the best we have to see through the ad hype.
So anybody have any technical insights as to how restrictive the opposing carbs are?
All the best,
Konrad
Edited: for spelling
ORIGINAL: w8ye
And Clarence Lee is not worthy?
The Saito 300 is a different design concept compared with the 130. Some 300's have two carbs and some have singles
ORIGINAL: Konrad
Thanks!
That is a great start. I'll have to give a close read. But as you know I think that what is printed in the dead tree press often is biased towards the advertiser. Anybody have detailed experience with the Saito 1.30 and the questions I asked earlier. I like how Saito moved away from the opposed carbs with the later 300
All the best,
Konrad
ORIGINAL: Hobbsy
Here ya go K, knock yourself out, one difference, I ran mine on WildCat 15% fuel with 18% syn/castor blend and it turned a Graupner 15x8 at 9,100, if my memory serves me well.
http://www.rcmplans.com/issues/reque...021989-1-1.pdf
Here ya go K, knock yourself out, one difference, I ran mine on WildCat 15% fuel with 18% syn/castor blend and it turned a Graupner 15x8 at 9,100, if my memory serves me well.
http://www.rcmplans.com/issues/reque...021989-1-1.pdf
That is a great start. I'll have to give a close read. But as you know I think that what is printed in the dead tree press often is biased towards the advertiser. Anybody have detailed experience with the Saito 1.30 and the questions I asked earlier. I like how Saito moved away from the opposed carbs with the later 300
All the best,
Konrad
The Saito 300 is a different design concept compared with the 130. Some 300's have two carbs and some have singles
Now the hobby catalog known as R/C Modeler, well......
Now if you read his engine reviews in RCM and then his Engine Clinic. You will learn what I mean by bias towards the advertisers. In his review of an ABN engine he would say things like the liner is plated with OS's fine hard coating or he might have slipped and called it what it was electroless nickel. But in his great Engine Clinic he would say that Chrome was a much better plating for the ringless aluminum piston engine. As it was much harder and also offer some last bit of protection from a lean run as it micro cracked, which leaked oil to protect the piston. Electroless nickel does not have these properties.
As you can see in the review he was selling an engine for the guy that paid for the publication. In his Clinic he was trying to give you insight into what made a great engine.
So I still stand by my statement that articles published in the dead tree press are suspect. Having had to deal with the moderation policies of this site I'm now having to second guess my position about user generated content forms as the moderators also seem to inhibit free thoughtful discussion about products. This seems to be done only to protect their site sponsors. But for now, it is still the best we have to see through the ad hype.
So anybody have any technical insights as to how restrictive the opposing carbs are?
All the best,
Konrad
Edited: for spelling
11-28-2010, 11:08 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Broken Wings
Nothing is more unjust, however common, than to charge with hypocrisy him that expresses zeal for those virtues which he neglects to practice; since he may be sincerely convinced of the advantages of conquering his passions, without having yet obtained the victory, as a man may be confident of the advantages of a voyage, or a journey, without having courage or industry to undertake it, and may honestly recommend to others, those attempts which he neglects himself.
Nothing is more unjust, however common, than to charge with hypocrisy him that expresses zeal for those virtues which he neglects to practice; since he may be sincerely convinced of the advantages of conquering his passions, without having yet obtained the victory, as a man may be confident of the advantages of a voyage, or a journey, without having courage or industry to undertake it, and may honestly recommend to others, those attempts which he neglects himself.
I have also taken the thankless road and suffered burdens to show the ignorance of others. All one needs to do is recall the episode about how an OS AX head seals. My journeys are of enlightenment not for perpetuating the statu quo, in hopes of keeping ones investment in the statu quo viable.
As for Mr Lee his writings confirm my stance that electroless nickel is inferior to chrome. I guess I'm not the only one that is zealous over those virtues which you neglects to explore. While I am aware of the realities of the world I hold Mr. Lee in the highest esteem. I can't say that of all that visit this site
All the best,
Konrad
11-29-2010, 09:48 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Please lets not be ridiculous, that refers to wheels not carbs. Saito did not aim the carbs at each other to improve the ground handling of the engine.
Please lets keep this thread on topic.
All the best
Please lets keep this thread on topic.
All the best
11-29-2010, 11:39 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: mistermnkim
hey guys a little off subject but i need some help. I need a new electric starter for 60 size and up glow engines, i kinda want a cordless type i see around alot. but as usual cost will decide if i go that way, any suggestions? thanks for any help
hey guys a little off subject but i need some help. I need a new electric starter for 60 size and up glow engines, i kinda want a cordless type i see around alot. but as usual cost will decide if i go that way, any suggestions? thanks for any help
It isn't the nicest starter, but it's been working great for me for two seasons and I think at the price, it as an excellent value. My HD Sullivan starter on a Pb car battery didn't have the same ability this geared cordless starter. It's been great when my hands hurt too much to hand start my Saitos too!
11-29-2010, 11:48 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Hobbsy
Having the carbs pointing at each other is called ''toe in'', it helps stabilize ground handling.
Having the carbs pointing at each other is called ''toe in'', it helps stabilize ground handling.
ORIGINAL: Konrad
Please lets not be ridiculous, that refers to wheels not carbs.
Please lets not be ridiculous, that refers to wheels not carbs.
There is ALWAYS room for some levity in your brevity!
11-29-2010, 01:59 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I was wondering if anyone used a larger pattern type muffler for there saitos( hitori, ES, ect)??
I was looking at the use on my saito fg36... But use on the 1.25 or others..would be fine as well..
Anyone use a ES composite 4-stroke pipe???
I was looking at the use on my saito fg36... But use on the 1.25 or others..would be fine as well..
Anyone use a ES composite 4-stroke pipe???
11-30-2010, 06:38 AM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I have a question on replacing bearings in a Saito 100. I have NSK sealed bearings and am wondering if I can leave the seals in the rear bearing or if they must be removed for lubrication to get through to the front of the engine?
11-30-2010, 07:44 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: mike early
now Konrad is being uppity.
P.S. this thread is only sometimes on topic.
now Konrad is being uppity.
P.S. this thread is only sometimes on topic.
Sorry, I see that my toe out comment was edited out.
11-30-2010, 07:52 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Kmot
Hobbsy is just applying some antidote to the poison that has infected this thread lately...
Hobbsy is just applying some antidote to the poison that has infected this thread lately...
All the best,
Konrad
12-01-2010, 04:10 AM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Komrad i think dave's answer was very funny,humour you know?
For God's sake man get out and have a good feed somewhere,then a good bottle of scotch and a look at some hooters mate
For God's sake man get out and have a good feed somewhere,then a good bottle of scotch and a look at some hooters mate
12-01-2010, 06:50 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
ORIGINAL: Old Fart
Komrad i think dave's answer was very funny,humour you know?
For God's sake man get out and have a good feed somewhere,then a good bottle of scotch and a look at some hooters mate
Komrad i think dave's answer was very funny,humour you know?
For God's sake man get out and have a good feed somewhere,then a good bottle of scotch and a look at some hooters mate
All the best,
12-01-2010, 11:14 AM
RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
I accidentally ran across this old thread here in RCU. How about a Supercharged Saito engine with a roots blower no less/
yes someone has done it too.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_15...tm.htm#1580599
My hat is off to ptechllp for this project. Way to go it is a very nice job it is just so awesome.
yes someone has done it too.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_15...tm.htm#1580599
My hat is off to ptechllp for this project. Way to go it is a very nice job it is just so awesome.
12-01-2010, 11:25 AM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
To address Konrads concern about the phlange causing some restriction, it's pretty obvious that there is about 4 times as much open space around the carb entrance as there is inside the intake pipe. Ergo, no restriction. Simple logic. I don't waste my time sitting around imagining up unreal problems.
12-01-2010, 01:06 PM
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RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !
Konrad,
Your comments about SAM trying to hold back engine performance in O/T competition aren't really "up to date". No amount of restriction (as has been proved) won't stop people trying to get "one better on the other guy".. Eg steel liners and crank in OK Super 60's with spark ignition. This was a hybrid bred in OZ exported to the likes of Eut Tilsen and it is capable of 12,000 rpm ++ on methanol or tricked gas fuel turning a 12 x 6 Bolly, to see is to be dumbstruck at the performance. And we won't go into the YS 53 and 63 fourstrokes for duration. For the others here picture a 4 pound model 88 inch wingspan going vertical(well 85 degrees) and thewing size equivalent after 28 seconds or approx it is so far up, for those whoare interested it is called a Feathermerchant. Re the OS and Supre Tigre 2 strokes, OS 32heli on 30% nitro around 16000rpm expected Supre Tigre G500 around 19,000rpm expected and an OS40 H around 12,000rpm expected just to trow in and oldie.
But this is a Saitosite s we'll limit ourselves to 50, 56, 62 and 65 what would you like to know performance wise about those (for O/T flying)
Your comments about SAM trying to hold back engine performance in O/T competition aren't really "up to date". No amount of restriction (as has been proved) won't stop people trying to get "one better on the other guy".. Eg steel liners and crank in OK Super 60's with spark ignition. This was a hybrid bred in OZ exported to the likes of Eut Tilsen and it is capable of 12,000 rpm ++ on methanol or tricked gas fuel turning a 12 x 6 Bolly, to see is to be dumbstruck at the performance. And we won't go into the YS 53 and 63 fourstrokes for duration. For the others here picture a 4 pound model 88 inch wingspan going vertical(well 85 degrees) and thewing size equivalent after 28 seconds or approx it is so far up, for those whoare interested it is called a Feathermerchant. Re the OS and Supre Tigre 2 strokes, OS 32heli on 30% nitro around 16000rpm expected Supre Tigre G500 around 19,000rpm expected and an OS40 H around 12,000rpm expected just to trow in and oldie.
But this is a Saitosite s we'll limit ourselves to 50, 56, 62 and 65 what would you like to know performance wise about those (for O/T flying)