Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

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Old 07-26-2011, 06:12 AM
  #20426
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I drill a small hole in the cowl and insert a a small hex head screw I believe it is 2mm in where the needle goes and use an extra long allen wrench to adjust mine 
I know some people that use piano wire or wire from a bass guitar to extend it thru the cowl
Hope this helps.

Bill
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Old 07-26-2011, 06:36 AM
  #20427
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Great thanks. Found a 2mm socket head cap screw that fits great.
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:08 AM
  #20428
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ORIGINAL: lopflyers
The thing is that I took a plug from my box that was not in the package so Im not sure if it is an F or not.
If it is not, can the wrong size plug make it smoke? I dont think but I am new in the hobby.
If the glow plug was a colder heat range variety, then yes it might be why it is smoking more than normal. Usually the 4 stroke engines won't run all that well, if the glow plug is a cold one.

I would suggest a Fox Miracle Glow plug or a Saito Glow Plug or the OS F one.


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Old 07-26-2011, 07:13 AM
  #20429
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ORIGINAL: w8ye
Most four stroke plugs have distinctive look - notice the protrusion at the bottom?


Yeah OH did that for some odd reason. I think it was to improve the combustion chamber shape on the inside. But OS also machined a recess or ridge or lip at the bottom of the glow plug hole, in which the machined tip of the glow plug fits in. So one has to be careful to use glow plugs designed to fit in the glow plug holes machined like that.

Here is a example of the special glow plug hole that OS did on this engine. You can see the ridge or lip at the bottom of the glow plug hole. If you used a regular long glow plug, it would butt up against the ridge before you tightened the glow plug up, which would lead one to strip out the threads. So you need to use a plug with the specail machined tip on it, like the OS F or Fox Miracle glow plugs for example. I sometimes suspect OS made their glow plugs medium length instead of long to ensure that the glow plug doesn't strip out the hole on the user if they used it instead of the OSF glow plug.

I would suggest everyone check their glow plug hole on any engine they get, just to sure they didn't start doing the same thing on it. You never know.



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Old 07-26-2011, 08:13 AM
  #20430
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: earlwb

Quote:
ORIGINAL: w8ye
Most four stroke plugs have distinctive look - notice the protrusion at the bottom?


Yeah OH did that for some odd reason. I think it was to improve the combustion chamber shape on the inside. But OS also machined a recess or ridge or lip at the bottom of the glow plug hole, in which the machined tip of the glow plug fits in. So one has to be careful to use glow plugs designed to fit in the glow plug holes machined like that.

Here is a example of the special glow plug hole that OS did on this engine. You can see the ridge or lip at the bottom of the glow plug hole. If you used a regular long glow plug, it would butt up against the ridge before you tightened the glow plug up, which would lead one to strip out the threads. So you need to use a plug with the specail machined tip on it, like the OS F or Fox Miracle glow plugs for example. I sometimes suspect OS made their glow plugs medium length instead of long to ensure that the glow plug doesn't strip out the hole on the user if they used it instead of the OS F glow plug.

I would suggest everyone check their glow plug hole on any engine they get, just to sure they didn't start doing the same thing on it. You never know.

[img][/img]

Thanks Earlwb, that is helpful info.

I have used both OS F and Fox Miracle plugs. I have not used them long enough to say that one works better than the other on all applications. But I can purchase the Fox Miracle plug a lot cheaper than the OS F plug and it has worked well so far for me.
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:43 AM
  #20431
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Oh Thanks for the information, it was the wrong plug. I replaced it with an OS F and it is not smoking except thru the muffler
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:08 AM
  #20432
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Folks, forgive the dumb question, but here goes anyway:

Can I convert my Saito 1.8 glow to gas? I don't mind a little power loss in the hope of saving money $$$$.

Thanks for your patience.
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:22 AM
  #20433
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: hsukaria
Folks, forgive the dumb question, but here goes anyway:
Can I convert my Saito 1.8 glow to gas? I don't mind a little power loss in the hope of saving money $$$$.
Thanks for your patience.
Yes you can. You need to drill a hole in the drive washer, to glue in a small magnet. Then you mount a sensor to pickup the magnet as it rotates by. Then the sensor drives a CDI ignition module which provides the spark for the engne. Of course people usually go with a small walbro style pumper carb too. You might be able to buy some of the Saito gas engine parts to make a conversion with too. Since Saito happens to have a 1.8 gas engine already, you could likely buy the parts to convert yours over.

One problem though is temperature. The engine tends to run more hot with gasoline. So you need to be more careful in this respect. I remember some people having problems with that. Also you need to run more oil as it doesn't have a needle bearing rod

The next problem is if it is worth it or not as you have to buy parts for the conversion and maybe drill a couple of holes for the pickup sensor into the engine too.
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:30 AM
  #20434
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: earlwb

Quote:
ORIGINAL: hsukaria
Folks, forgive the dumb question, but here goes anyway:
Can I convert my Saito 1.8 glow to gas? I don't mind a little power loss in the hope of saving money $$$$.
Thanks for your patience.
Yes you can. You need to drill a hole in the drive washer, to glue in a small magnet. Then you mount a sensor to pickup the magnet as it rotates by. Then the sensor drives a CDI ignition module which provides the spark for the engne. Of course people usually go with a small walbro style pumper carb too. You might be able to buy some of the Saito gas engine parts to make a conversion with too. Since Saito happens to have a 1.8 gas engine already, you could likely buy the parts to convert yours over.

One problem though is temperature. The engine tends to run more hot with gasoline. So you need to be more careful in this respect. I remember some people having problems with that. Also you need to run more oil as it doesn't have a needle bearing rod

The next problem is if it is worth it or not as you have to buy parts for the conversion and maybe drill a couple of holes for the pickup sensor into the engine too.
I wondered about the gas version of the 1.8 and if I can just swap parts. But of course, the cost of doing that might negate the savings of going gas. I also didn't think about the oil ratio. That might not be what I want in the end. Maybe just get a purpose-built gas engine. This Saito 1.8 is mounted on a Great Planes Giant Big Stick, so space and airflow are not a problem.
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:06 PM
  #20435
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Well maybe if you DIY it it would be cheaper. You can get a CDI ignition from many sources. then you can drill a hole in the drive washer for the magnet at the TDC point. Then you can mount the sensor so it can read the magnet as it whizzes by. Then it is a matter of advancing the or retarding the ignition by moving the pickup sensor back and forth as needed. Usually the CDI units have a built in spark advance, so you might need to move the magnet from TDC farther forward. Maybe just buying the drive washer and magnet would be even easier than trying to figure it out.
of course if a LHS happened to have the engine in the store, you could take a close look at the drive washer and sensor and maybe make some measurements. But I doubt anyone would stock one to sell considering the price.


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Old 07-26-2011, 01:14 PM
  #20436
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: earlwb

Well maybe if you DIY it it would be cheaper. You can get a CDI ignition from many sources. then you can drill a hole in the drive washer for the magnet at the TDC point. Then you can mount the sensor so it can read the magnet as it whizzes by. Then it is a matter of advancing the or retarding the ignition by moving the pickup sensor back and forth as needed. Usually the CDI units have a built in spark advance, so you might need to move the magnet from TDC farther forward. Maybe just buying the drive washer and magnet would be even easier than trying to figure it out.
of course if a LHS happened to have the engine in the store, you could take a close look at the drive washer and sensor and maybe make some measurements. But I doubt anyone would stock one to sell considering the price.


The idea of changing the drive washer and buying a third party ignition sounds feasible to me. How about the spark plug hole and threads in the cylinder head? Isn't the spark plug bigger than the glow plug?
The higher oil ratio of 20:1 is still ok with me, much less than the 5:1 of a glow.
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:16 PM
  #20437
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But then, the carb would have to change also. That can add up the $$$. The Saito gas carbs are real nice and fancy.
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:59 PM
  #20438
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Hi Hsukaria, Lots of conversion threads here on RCU http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_93..._6/key_/tm.htm
They show some great machining work. Some do run with the stock carb, but comment on sensitivity of adjustment. Would suggest first to locate the pick-up sensor, then mount the magnet accordingly. Fellow named Adrain currently has C&H branded ignitions - smaller, & will function on 4.8v up to 2S lipo. He goes by i7x58 here on RCU and does some marvelous machining work, and may even do a complete conversion - altho not sure about that. 1/4-32 plugs will fit the glow threads no problem. I've used rare earth magnets 3/16" from Radio Shack, T-nuts & JB weld. This was before I became aware of Adrain & I couldn't find the rite resources to do much else. Good luck with your endevor.

Mike Brennan
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Old 07-26-2011, 02:45 PM
  #20439
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Well, one could use the regular carb, but the gasoline air fuel mixture ratio is higher with gasoline than glow fuel. So you may need to change the needle taper profile to make it less sensitive to adjustments. (the needle becomes more gradual in the taper with gasoline). I don't remember if the midrange is affected all that much though.
You can get cute little 1/4x32 spark plugs easily enough. The RimFire brand comes to mind first.
You can likely use a water hose clamp at first to clamp the sensor on to the engine where it can read the magnet as it goes by. So you can fiddle with it easier at first. Then when you get it sorted out you can mount the sensor better if you want to.

Everyone many years ago simply used a fixed venturi with a spray bar and needle on the old spark ignition engines, some had crude throttles back then too. so a fancy pumper carb isn't really all that neccesary. One can even use muffler pressure still too. The odds are pretty good that you can't get the correct air fuel vapor ratio inside the fuel tank to get it to ignite. I remember the Myth Busters having a heck of lot of trouble trying to get a cell phone to blow up a room once much less when they tried to get a car fuel tank with a open fuel cap to ignite as well.

I need to call Fox and put in a order for the Fox .50 gasser real soon, they ought to be releasing it really soon now. They have been way behind schedule on getting it out.

Normally I tend to convert gassers to glow myself. One can remove a lot of junk on the weedeaters and such to convert them, plus you can make a adapter for a glow carb easily enough. They already have some spark plug to 1/4x32 adapters available, but it isn't hard to make them though. Gasoline tends to stink too much and is more annoying. I drive car now so having a gasser in the back just stinks the insides all up on me.




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Old 07-26-2011, 03:04 PM
  #20440
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Thanks for all your help. I think the gas smell is the ultimate deterrent for me also. I haul my planes in the wife's van. So far the nitro smell never bothered her or the kids, gas is another story.

I am also hesitant to convert the Saito 1.8 GK unless it is a sure thing, it is quite a gem.

If I break down and decide to get gas, I might get me a cheap brand and tinker with it and not mess up the nice Saito.
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:29 AM
  #20441
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Hi huk don't be a wally stick with glo it's cheaper in the long run mate!@!
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:33 AM
  #20442
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ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Hi huk don't be a wally stick with glo it's cheaper in the long run mate!@!
Ok, can somebody please translate this to American?
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:40 AM
  #20443
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Quote:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Hi huk don't be a wally stick with glo it's cheaper in the long run mate!@!

Ok, can somebody please translate this to American?
Not sure myself but I think it might border on the off color side [X(] 
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:57 AM
  #20444
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: hsukaria


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Hi huk don't be a wally stick with glo it's cheaper in the long run mate!@!
Ok, can somebody please translate this to American?
It sounds to me like he is saying "use glo because it's cheaper in the long run [than gas]".

I personallyfind this argument hard to believe, unless you mix your own glow fuel and you have access to a "special source" for those components.

I don't see how glow fuel can possibly be cheaper than gasoline, but that is an argument fought many times over with no clear winner, unless you simplify it to purchasing stock glow fuel from a hobby shop or other source at $15-$20 per gallon.

-Mike
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:16 AM
  #20445
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: mschulz531


Quote:
ORIGINAL: hsukaria


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Hi huk don't be a wally stick with glo it's cheaper in the long run mate!@!
Ok, can somebody please translate this to American?
It sounds to me like he is saying ''use glo because it's cheaper in the long run [than gas]''.

I personally find this argument hard to believe, unless you mix your own glow fuel and you have access to a ''special source'' for those components.

I don't see how glow fuel can possibly be cheaper than gasoline, but that is an argument fought many times over with no clear winner, unless you simplify it to purchasing stock glow fuel from a hobby shop or other source at $15-$20 per gallon.

-Mike
I didn't mean to resurrect a much abused subject, sorry. I am struggling with a decision whether to keep a big nitro or switch to gas at this mtime. A big help is if I can get my Saito 1.8 to run on lower nitro content, like 5% rather than 15%. That can convince me to keep it. Others have given me ideas on how to convert it to gas.

I will try to run it on 5% nitro first and see how that goes. This is my first Saito and my first big engine.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:35 AM
  #20446
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: hsukaria


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mschulz531


Quote:
ORIGINAL: hsukaria


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Hi huk don't be a wally stick with glo it's cheaper in the long run mate!@!
Ok, can somebody please translate this to American?
It sounds to me like he is saying ''use glo because it's cheaper in the long run [than gas]''.

I personallyfind this argument hard to believe, unless you mix your own glow fuel and you have access to a ''special source'' for those components.

I don't see how glow fuel can possibly be cheaper than gasoline, but that is an argument fought many times over with no clear winner, unless you simplify it to purchasing stock glow fuel from a hobby shop or other source at $15-$20 per gallon.

-Mike
I didn't mean to resurrect a much abused subject, sorry. I am struggling with a decision whether to keep a big nitro or switch to gas at this mtime. A big help is if I can get my Saito 1.8 to run on lower nitro content, like 5% rather than 15%. That can convince me to keep it. Others have given me ideas on how to convert it to gas.

I will try to run it on 5% nitro first and see how that goes. This is my first Saito and my first big engine.
Honestly, I'm thinking you are trying to tackle too many "firsts" at once. If this is your first Saito and your first big engine, just run it as a big Saito on glow fuel and understand you will use a good bit of glow fuel in the process; then once you've had some time under your belt with it, you can decide if you want to convert to gas, keep it as is, or buy a different gas engine as part of your exploration into gassers. Keep this beautiful Saito as it was built and enjoy it for awhile; the sound of a large 4 stroke can't be beat.

-Mike

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Old 07-27-2011, 08:50 AM
  #20447
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: mschulz531


Quote:
ORIGINAL: hsukaria


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mschulz531


Quote:
ORIGINAL: hsukaria


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Hi huk don't be a wally stick with glo it's cheaper in the long run mate!@!
Ok, can somebody please translate this to American?
It sounds to me like he is saying ''use glo because it's cheaper in the long run [than gas]''.

I personally find this argument hard to believe, unless you mix your own glow fuel and you have access to a ''special source'' for those components.

I don't see how glow fuel can possibly be cheaper than gasoline, but that is an argument fought many times over with no clear winner, unless you simplify it to purchasing stock glow fuel from a hobby shop or other source at $15-$20 per gallon.

-Mike
I didn't mean to resurrect a much abused subject, sorry. I am struggling with a decision whether to keep a big nitro or switch to gas at this mtime. A big help is if I can get my Saito 1.8 to run on lower nitro content, like 5% rather than 15%. That can convince me to keep it. Others have given me ideas on how to convert it to gas.

I will try to run it on 5% nitro first and see how that goes. This is my first Saito and my first big engine.
Honestly, I'm thinking you are trying to tackle too many ''firsts'' at once. If this is your first Saito and your first big engine, just run it as a big Saito on glow fuel and understand you will use a good bit of glow fuel in the process; then once you've had some time under your belt with it, you can decide if you want to convert to gas, keep it as is, or buy a different gas engine as part of your exploration into gassers. Keep this beautiful Saito as it was built and enjoy it for awhile; the sound of a large 4 stroke can't be beat.

-Mike

Yep, I think I will take that approach. But I will start with 15% nitro and then try it with 5% to see if I can get away with it.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:56 AM
  #20448
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: hsukaria


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mschulz531


Quote:
ORIGINAL: hsukaria


Quote:
ORIGINAL: mschulz531


Quote:
ORIGINAL: hsukaria


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Hi huk don't be a wally stick with glo it's cheaper in the long run mate!@!
Ok, can somebody please translate this to American?
It sounds to me like he is saying ''use glo because it's cheaper in the long run [than gas]''.

I personallyfind this argument hard to believe, unless you mix your own glow fuel and you have access to a ''special source'' for those components.

I don't see how glow fuel can possibly be cheaper than gasoline, but that is an argument fought many times over with no clear winner, unless you simplify it to purchasing stock glow fuel from a hobby shop or other source at $15-$20 per gallon.

-Mike
I didn't mean to resurrect a much abused subject, sorry. I am struggling with a decision whether to keep a big nitro or switch to gas at this mtime. A big help is if I can get my Saito 1.8 to run on lower nitro content, like 5% rather than 15%. That can convince me to keep it. Others have given me ideas on how to convert it to gas.

I will try to run it on 5% nitro first and see how that goes. This is my first Saito and my first big engine.
Honestly, I'm thinking you are trying to tackle too many ''firsts'' at once. If this is your first Saito and your first big engine, just run it as a big Saito on glow fuel and understand you will use a good bit of glow fuel in the process; then once you've had some time under your belt with it, you can decide if you want to convert to gas, keep it as is, or buy a different gas engine as part of your exploration into gassers. Keep this beautiful Saito as it was built and enjoy it for awhile; the sound of a large 4 stroke can't be beat.

-Mike

Yep, I think I will take that approach. But I will start with 15% nitro and then try it with 5% to see if I can get away with it.
Start with 15% and stick with 15% - why mess with a tried and true formula for success?


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Old 07-27-2011, 09:11 AM
  #20449
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H, all the Saitos larger than the little .30 will run perfectly on 5%, the .30 needs to idle about 200 rpm faster on 5%.
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:30 AM
  #20450
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H, all the Saitos larger than the little .30 will run perfectly on 5%, the .30 needs to idle about 200 rpm faster on 5%.
I'll try it, won't hurt. I have with 5% castor and all synthetic mixes. 5% is noticeably cheaper than 15%, and at the rate of 1.8's consumption, it will make a difference in $$$.
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