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  1. #20526

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: earlwb

    ORIGINAL: FNQFLYER

    Ealwb no detonation just a fast engine.* That fuel mix is used for duration (vertical drag racing) events.* Check out the SAM site for more data on this and also The Vintagents and SAM 84 sites.* Tells you a bit about my compatriots and the things we get up to.
    BTB standard Duration fuel for an OS 61 is 60% nitro and the YS 53 and 63 is 40% plus depending on the prop.* Not recommended for the faint hearted
    Oh, OK, so you guys were doing something similar to pylon racing then.

    I have seen some folks using 30% for sport flying, so it had me a wondering.
    Thanks

    I got to thinking about it, and if you took the engine apart, you likely disturbed the piston ring and it now doesn't match the cylinder bore. So you probanly need to wait until the ring gets seated into its new position in the cylinder.




    I'm with Earl on this one. This is why engines should not be taken apart just on a whim.


    Ed Cregger
    \"Practice makes prefect\"

    Saito Club Member #52

  2. #20527
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    hey guys, guess it's time to join!!!

    I've have two Saito 150's that have been residing in their boxes for years, waiting for me to finish my Ziroli B-25.... recently bought a second-hand Great planes Sukhoi SU-31 with a a Saito 320 in it... replaced the bearings to be on the safe side, an the beast fired right up!! flies the plane with authority, nice combo!!

    Wim
    Graupner MC 32 Hott, SM F-15/Jetcat P120 SX, AD Scorpion/G-Booster 160+, Skymaster F-14 under assembly....

  3. #20528

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: FNQFLYER

    Ealwb no detonation just a fast engine.* That fuel mix is used for duration (vertical drag racing) events.* Check out the SAM site for more data on this and also The Vintagents and SAM 84 sites.* Tells you a bit about my compatriots and the things we get up to.
    BTB standard Duration fuel for an OS 61 is 60% nitro and the YS 53 and 63 is 40% plus depending on the prop.* Not recommended for the faint hearted
    "Vertical drag racing" is quite a good description of LER duration events, be they FF or RC.[8D]

    jess

  4. #20529
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: NM2K
    ORIGINAL: earlwb
    ORIGINAL: FNQFLYER
    Ealwb no detonation just a fast engine. That fuel mix is used for duration (vertical drag racing) events. Check out the SAM site for more data on this and also The Vintagents and SAM 84 sites. Tells you a bit about my compatriots and the things we get up to.
    BTB standard Duration fuel for an OS 61 is 60% nitro and the YS 53 and 63 is 40% plus depending on the prop. Not recommended for the faint hearted
    Oh, OK, so you guys were doing something similar to pylon racing then.
    I have seen some folks using 30% for sport flying, so it had me a wondering.
    Thanks

    I got to thinking about it, and if you took the engine apart, you likely disturbed the piston ring and it now doesn't match the cylinder bore. So you probanly need to wait until the ring gets seated into its new position in the cylinder.
    I'm with Earl on this one. This is why engines should not be taken apart just on a whim.
    Ed Cregger
    if one is careful with a Saito engine, they can remove the cylinder/head and piston and rod as a unit and not disturb the piston ring in the process. The ring will stay put and the piston could still rotate within the cylinder OK. Now if the piston won't rotate, then the ring groove is clogged up with gunk and needs to be cleaned unfortunately. I did this a while back when I replaced the bearings in my old Saito .80 engine. it ran just as good afterwards as it did before I replaced the bearings.




    Club Saito #722, Sig Kadet Brotherhood #80, GlowHead Brotherhood #14,
    AMA # 928076

  5. #20530

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    hi everybody, how can i get please the manual for a saito fa-90t mkII? thanks.

  6. #20531

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Vertical Drag Racing AKA LER is not for the faint hearted.  My YS 63 powered Feathermerchant (wing span 88 inches) is but a spec after a 25 second engine run,  To hear the YS shift up a gear prop unloading) after launch is something you don't forget.  BTB the win looks about 2 inches and an altimeter test shows we exceed 1000ft.  Consider this 30 seconds of heart pumping madness followed by several minutes of graceful gliding around the sky.
    With the Saito 65 I use a 13 x 6 Bolly carbon fibre for Duration on 30% + and a 14 or 15 x 6 or 8 (depending on the day with 10% nitro and 20% synthetic oil.  Same engine and same 85% Bomber.
    All good fun and no pretty babies in site 
    Club Saito member 710

  7. #20532
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I knew you were short of oxygen mate
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  8. #20533

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I recently purchased a used Saito 1.8 FS. The seller stated that it had 2 gallons of fuel run through it. Please note I have a NIB Saito 1.8 FS and the compression of the new engine compared to the used engine is very differrent. I would say that the used engine appears to have the compression of the new engine. Is this normal or is the used engine defective?

  9. #20534
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    The used engine can very easily have more compression than a NIB engine, as the new engine's ring hasn't seated yet and the new valves can even leak more too.

    Club Saito #722, Sig Kadet Brotherhood #80, GlowHead Brotherhood #14,
    AMA # 928076

  10. #20535
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hey Earl, I'd like to add another thought to this, if the engine were last run on fuel with synthetic lube the cylinder is very likely dry.
    Farmall 240 the final issue of the Farmall C, Super C, 200, 230 series.
    122 Cu. In. 22 hp. A small tractor that would do big work due to its 10x36 inch rear tires.

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  11. #20536
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: Hobbsy
    Hey Earl, I'd like to add another thought to this, if the engine were last run on fuel with synthetic lube the cylinder is very likely dry.
    Is your wording correct? How does a dry cylinder have more compression than a wet one (has some oil)?


    Club Saito #722, Sig Kadet Brotherhood #80, GlowHead Brotherhood #14,
    AMA # 928076

  12. #20537

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I gave the wrong information. The used engine has about half the compression as the new engine. I should have read my post prior to posting.

  13. #20538
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Get some oil in the cylinder and see what it has?

    It also may have a stuck valve. Listen at the exhaust and at the carb when you turn it over?
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  14. #20539

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Thanks for the information. I'll take your advice. If it has a stuck valve what is the corrective action?

  15. #20540
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    If a squirt of oil in the glow plug hole does not clear it up . . . .

    On an engine that has sat around for the last five yrs, it could be either valve. The fact that the engine has a little compression is a sign that there is probably something in the valve seat though it is probably just congealed castor oil.

    I listen in the carb and the exhaust to figure which one is leaking. I pull that valve cover and put oil around the stem and in the port, then let the valve snap shut a few times and it usually clears up. It will also usually clear up if you put fuel in the engine and run it.

    You can never go by what usage a person says. Two gallons through a Saito 180 and it is not broken in yet. But I've seen guys buy them used and the seller, who was apparently not the original owner, said that the engine had three or four gallons through it. Well, to pull the covers on the engine, it probably had 20 gallons of fuel through it.

    Keep in mind on a used engine that the bearings are possibly bad - especially if it has sat around a few years. Feel of the bearings real carefully with the prop off the engine. Then after you run the engine some feel of the bearings with the prop off again. The crank should turn smooth with no gritty feel. Having the prop on the engine dampens out the gritty feel some.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  16. #20541
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Sorry Earl, I didn't buy it that the old engine had more compression, as my Dad used to say, I knew where of he mis-spoke.
    Farmall 240 the final issue of the Farmall C, Super C, 200, 230 series.
    122 Cu. In. 22 hp. A small tractor that would do big work due to its 10x36 inch rear tires.

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  17. #20542
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I was smelling around on this thread and read that into his post that he left out the word "not". I do this often myself.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  18. #20543
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Oh OK I see now.  Anyway, a NIB engine can feel a little weak in compression compared to a engine that has been run in and the piston ring is seated nicely. But in his case he really meant that the used engine felt weak in compression. I think you guys answered it already though.

    Club Saito #722, Sig Kadet Brotherhood #80, GlowHead Brotherhood #14,
    AMA # 928076

  19. #20544
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    While we are on this subject of comparing a new Saito with a used one . . .

    A true NIB Saito doesn't feel so good. You can almost feel the hone marks on the cylinder wall when turning the engine over with a bare prop shaft.

    I doesn't take much playing around with one at the workbench with some oil in the cylinder for a new never run engine to feel smooth. A Saito with a few gallons through it should have more compression than a virgin engine just out of the box.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  20. #20545

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: w8ye

    While we are on this subject of comparing a new Saito with a used one . . .

    A true NIB Saito doesn't feel so good. You can almost feel the hone marks on the cylinder wall when turning the engine over with a bare prop shaft.

    I doesn't take much playing around with one at the workbench with some oil in the cylinder for a new never run engine to feel smooth. A Saito with a few gallons through it should have more compression than a virgin engine just out of the box.
    So that is normal. I kept oiling and oiling and turning and turning mine before I started it because it felt a bit 'gritty'. I was afraid that it had been setting in the hobby shop too long.

    btw. I've got a 100 with a 15x6 prop. I've got a rc specialties 90 degree adapter into a 45 manifold connected to the stock muffler with one of those rubber deflectors on it for a neat install under the cowl of my edge. I ran 1 gallon of fuel through it for break in on the bench, so it isn't broke in yet. Anyway, after backing off 300rpm from peak, I'm getting about 8100rpm. Is this about right? Or am I loosing that much power due to the exhaust?

    Thanks
    Cory

  21. #20546

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    gritty probably isn't the best word. More like really fine emery cloth.

    Cory

  22. #20547
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Your 100 sounds about right for a 15 X 6. It will get better as you get another 3 or 4 gallons of fuel in it.

    Fine Emory cloth sounds about right for the feel of a new Saito without a prop.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  23. #20548
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Jim, it takes less than one minute of running to get rid of that feeling on the newer Saitos, it took about an hour on the ones from the 80s.
    Farmall 240 the final issue of the Farmall C, Super C, 200, 230 series.
    122 Cu. In. 22 hp. A small tractor that would do big work due to its 10x36 inch rear tires.

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  24. #20549

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Me, bench running the Saito FA-30SH. Please watch the video and comment. Your commnets will be much appreciated. Read also my description. I refer to prop used, fuel, RPM figures etc...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFluHEh1vUs
    Saito Club Member #763

  25. #20550
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Looking good, I didn't see the prop, fuel listing etc, Thanks Dave
    Farmall 240 the final issue of the Farmall C, Super C, 200, 230 series.
    122 Cu. In. 22 hp. A small tractor that would do big work due to its 10x36 inch rear tires.

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5


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