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  1. #21751

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

     I have a dynaflite super decathlon, with saito FG 36
    no maiden flight yet,
    almost earlier today,
    except, engine conked out on runway when i fully accelerated.

    i have a problem.

    engine has been run in my backyard for over 1 1/2 hours
    using 20 to 1 oil mix, as prescribed by Saito.

    I was set to fly plane today.

    I built cowl with a total of 3 air inlet holes on the cowl front face.
      the outlet areas are much larger area thab the three intake holes.






    took plane to airfield, turned on engine, and it was revving fine,

    i then taxi'ed plane on runway, and walked behind it, warming up engine, and little up and down revving.  right before take off, i put full throttle whilst still holding the plane, just to do one last check.
    it appeared to hesitate very minimal, once i let go of plane, full throttle, and it began to lose speed and engine almost shut off, i decreased throttle, and 

    aborted flight.


    while cowl was still on, i tested again,

    i turned on engine, then began to throttle, and on doing so, it sounded like engine wants to die 
    if i do not decreased throttle, it would shut off for sure.

    i can throttle from iddle to about 1/4 speed, past this, and it wants to die.

    i know engine is hot by now

    so it sounds to me like there is an issue with airflow in the cowl, or warm air, or turbulunce issues.


    does anyone have any suggestions,.

    i do not want to fly plane with out the cowl.

    if the cowl is off, the engine runs fine
    and i can get 7800 rpm with a 18 x 8 prop
    AMA # 982277
    Dalton 300 ML DA 200, KS cans
    DALTON 260, 40%, DA 150, Pro Flow cans
    3DHS Extra 330 LX 120" DA 170
    Bill Hempel Yak 40% DA 170
    Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle Cap DA 120
    Top Flite Gold Edition Giant P51 DA 85 (in the making!!)
    Extreme Flight YAK 54 91" DA 70
    Hangar 9 Extra 260 DA50
    Extreme FLight Extra 300 78" DA35
    GP Revolver 70 Saito FA1.25
    JETI is the only way!!!!

  2. #21752
    Mein Duff's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Maybe you could post a few pics of the size and placement of the 3 cooling holes? It might be a good idea to install some baffles which would deflect more cooling air to the cylinder head area.
    Fleet Brotherhood #5
    Half A Wing, Three Engines and A Prayer

  3. #21753
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    It may be tuned slightly too lean and / or is tending to get hot with the cowling in place. If it runs fine without the cowling then there is definitely something wrong with the air flow when the cowling is in place. It may need more break in time as well. You can try increasing the size of the openings or fly it without the cowling altough you don't want to for some reason. Try richening it up a little and see how it goes. Keep us posted.....

    Ernie Misner

  4. #21754

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    i have to fly with cowl, because i added 6 ounces of weight in it
    this is necessary, since plane is tail heavy,
    and with these weights, the CG is at where dynaflite wants it,
    i have already put weights under the gas tank, about 5 ounces there as well.
    AMA # 982277
    Dalton 300 ML DA 200, KS cans
    DALTON 260, 40%, DA 150, Pro Flow cans
    3DHS Extra 330 LX 120" DA 170
    Bill Hempel Yak 40% DA 170
    Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle Cap DA 120
    Top Flite Gold Edition Giant P51 DA 85 (in the making!!)
    Extreme Flight YAK 54 91" DA 70
    Hangar 9 Extra 260 DA50
    Extreme FLight Extra 300 78" DA35
    GP Revolver 70 Saito FA1.25
    JETI is the only way!!!!

  5. #21755
    Sharpeye22's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I had the same problem with my FG30. I had to retune the engine so that it was a bit richer with the cowl off. When I installed the cowl it would lean out.It took some trial and error till I got it right. This is the same problem I have had in the past with some of my 2 strokes when they are tightly cowled.
    Larry
    Saito Club #692
    AMA#128736

  6. #21756

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    here is the pic

    any suggestions would be great
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    AMA # 982277
    Dalton 300 ML DA 200, KS cans
    DALTON 260, 40%, DA 150, Pro Flow cans
    3DHS Extra 330 LX 120" DA 170
    Bill Hempel Yak 40% DA 170
    Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle Cap DA 120
    Top Flite Gold Edition Giant P51 DA 85 (in the making!!)
    Extreme Flight YAK 54 91" DA 70
    Hangar 9 Extra 260 DA50
    Extreme FLight Extra 300 78" DA35
    GP Revolver 70 Saito FA1.25
    JETI is the only way!!!!

  7. #21757

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    here is the pic

    any suggestions would be great
    AMA # 982277
    Dalton 300 ML DA 200, KS cans
    DALTON 260, 40%, DA 150, Pro Flow cans
    3DHS Extra 330 LX 120" DA 170
    Bill Hempel Yak 40% DA 170
    Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle Cap DA 120
    Top Flite Gold Edition Giant P51 DA 85 (in the making!!)
    Extreme Flight YAK 54 91" DA 70
    Hangar 9 Extra 260 DA50
    Extreme FLight Extra 300 78" DA35
    GP Revolver 70 Saito FA1.25
    JETI is the only way!!!!

  8. #21758

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    well, most of the cylinder and the whole cylinder head is out in the airstream. I can't see how that is causing the problem. Is it possible that a fuel line is getting pinched by the cowl?
    Content, but not Complacent.

  9. #21759

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    i will check that
    but i do not believe that is the case.
    AMA # 982277
    Dalton 300 ML DA 200, KS cans
    DALTON 260, 40%, DA 150, Pro Flow cans
    3DHS Extra 330 LX 120" DA 170
    Bill Hempel Yak 40% DA 170
    Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle Cap DA 120
    Top Flite Gold Edition Giant P51 DA 85 (in the making!!)
    Extreme Flight YAK 54 91" DA 70
    Hangar 9 Extra 260 DA50
    Extreme FLight Extra 300 78" DA35
    GP Revolver 70 Saito FA1.25
    JETI is the only way!!!!

  10. #21760
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Gasoline isn't going to give you the cooling effect that an alcohol burning engine receives. If the problem persists and it still runs great without the cowling, I would absolutely open up those cooling holes larger and larger as necessary. And you are correct that the exit opening needs to be 2 - 3 times more area than the entrance openings. It helps that the cylinder is mostly exposed but gasoline can run very hot. How does the plug look when it dies? It should be just tan in color, not whiteish. And once again make sure it is plenty rich especially until you get more time on it.

    Ernie Misner

  11. #21761

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Thank you Ernie
    That is what I will do

    I will update you after it is done
    AMA # 982277
    Dalton 300 ML DA 200, KS cans
    DALTON 260, 40%, DA 150, Pro Flow cans
    3DHS Extra 330 LX 120" DA 170
    Bill Hempel Yak 40% DA 170
    Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle Cap DA 120
    Top Flite Gold Edition Giant P51 DA 85 (in the making!!)
    Extreme Flight YAK 54 91" DA 70
    Hangar 9 Extra 260 DA50
    Extreme FLight Extra 300 78" DA35
    GP Revolver 70 Saito FA1.25
    JETI is the only way!!!!

  12. #21762

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    update

    i opened the three front openings up more on the cowl
    then i made 4 small holes on the top of cowl, where i could see the high speed needle and use a special thin screwdriver, with which
    i could adjust HSN with engine and cowl on.

    took plane to my back yard, this time, with cowl still on.

    turned engine on, within a minute of allowing engine to warm up, i tried to rev engine up, and it was doing same thing as yesterday.
    i brought out my screwdriver, and
    i did have to richen the flow of gas by about 1 1/2 turns
    and then it had power
    i got 7950 rpm with a 18 x 8 master airscrew prop
    and was able to run it for about 20 minutes, no conking out
    howeverthe only thing is that once in a while, it would hiccup, but would not turn off.

    i wonder if i need to make an airscoop that will flow air near to carb opening?
    AMA # 982277
    Dalton 300 ML DA 200, KS cans
    DALTON 260, 40%, DA 150, Pro Flow cans
    3DHS Extra 330 LX 120" DA 170
    Bill Hempel Yak 40% DA 170
    Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle Cap DA 120
    Top Flite Gold Edition Giant P51 DA 85 (in the making!!)
    Extreme Flight YAK 54 91" DA 70
    Hangar 9 Extra 260 DA50
    Extreme FLight Extra 300 78" DA35
    GP Revolver 70 Saito FA1.25
    JETI is the only way!!!!

  13. #21763

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    [youtube][/youtubehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ChTLNYWHdI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ChTLNYWHdI


    AMA # 982277
    Dalton 300 ML DA 200, KS cans
    DALTON 260, 40%, DA 150, Pro Flow cans
    3DHS Extra 330 LX 120" DA 170
    Bill Hempel Yak 40% DA 170
    Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle Cap DA 120
    Top Flite Gold Edition Giant P51 DA 85 (in the making!!)
    Extreme Flight YAK 54 91" DA 70
    Hangar 9 Extra 260 DA50
    Extreme FLight Extra 300 78" DA35
    GP Revolver 70 Saito FA1.25
    JETI is the only way!!!!

  14. #21764
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    The air inside of the cowling should be fine for carb intake unless the cowling is ridicously close to the carb intake and restricting it some how which isn't likely. You are making good progress. I think the hicup will go away when you get more time one it and are able to lean it out slightly from where you are at this point. Keep us posted, good work.

    Ernie Misner

  15. #21765
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

    It may be tuned slightly too lean and / or is tending to get hot with the cowling in place. If it runs fine without the cowling then there is definitely something wrong with the air flow when the cowling is in place. It may need more break in time as well. You can try increasing the size of the openings or fly it without the cowling altough you don't want to for some reason. Try richening it up a little and see how it goes. Keep us posted.....

    Ernie Misner

    ^^^^X2.^^^^

    Tune it on the rich side.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
    SIG BH #41
    - 1/3 Spacewalker, Rascal 110
    CUB BH #231 - Wings Maker 1/5 J-3 Cub

  16. #21766

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    update, flew the plane today, maiden flight
    the engine did great
    had a 18 x 8 nylon prop
    prior to flight, it was a warmer day than any other day i had the plane,
    i made the gas flow richer again by 1/2 turn
    got 7800 rpm on the tach

    whole flight, not a single problem with engine,
    very strong throughout.

    thanks guys for all the help.
    AMA # 982277
    Dalton 300 ML DA 200, KS cans
    DALTON 260, 40%, DA 150, Pro Flow cans
    3DHS Extra 330 LX 120" DA 170
    Bill Hempel Yak 40% DA 170
    Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle Cap DA 120
    Top Flite Gold Edition Giant P51 DA 85 (in the making!!)
    Extreme Flight YAK 54 91" DA 70
    Hangar 9 Extra 260 DA50
    Extreme FLight Extra 300 78" DA35
    GP Revolver 70 Saito FA1.25
    JETI is the only way!!!!

  17. #21767
    Mein Duff's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    The sweet smell of success ! Congrats !
    Fleet Brotherhood #5
    Half A Wing, Three Engines and A Prayer

  18. #21768
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Did you use about 25 cents worth of gas?.....

    Ernie

  19. #21769

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    thanks again Ernie,
    engine is a dream!!!
    AMA # 982277
    Dalton 300 ML DA 200, KS cans
    DALTON 260, 40%, DA 150, Pro Flow cans
    3DHS Extra 330 LX 120" DA 170
    Bill Hempel Yak 40% DA 170
    Great Planes Matt Chapman Eagle Cap DA 120
    Top Flite Gold Edition Giant P51 DA 85 (in the making!!)
    Extreme Flight YAK 54 91" DA 70
    Hangar 9 Extra 260 DA50
    Extreme FLight Extra 300 78" DA35
    GP Revolver 70 Saito FA1.25
    JETI is the only way!!!!

  20. #21770
    SrTelemaster150's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: cshahrdar

    update, flew the plane today, maiden flight
    the engine did great
    had a 18 x 8 nylon prop
    prior to flight, it was a warmer day than any other day i had the plane,
    i made the gas flow richer again by 1/2 turn
    got 7800 rpm on the tach

    whole flight, not a single problem with engine,
    very strong throughout.

    thanks guys for all the help.

    I guess I should be happy W/my (spark ignition) FA 150 running on E85/Klotz turning a nylon 18X8 @ 7500 RPM.

    It turns the same 7800 RPM W/the 18X8 as your FG 36 when I run 15% Cool Power on the electronic ignition but it burns through 16oz of fuel in 12 minutes @ WOT.

    I ran the E85/Klotz @ WOT for 15 minutes & only used about 8oz of fuel.

    I need to put a pump/regulator on the glow carb as it is erratic as far as tuning. ST Engines has been developing the P/R as a less expensive, lighter, more compact alternative to going to a Walbro carburetor.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
    SIG BH #41
    - 1/3 Spacewalker, Rascal 110
    CUB BH #231 - Wings Maker 1/5 J-3 Cub

  21. #21771
    SrTelemaster150's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    deleted
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
    SIG BH #41
    - 1/3 Spacewalker, Rascal 110
    CUB BH #231 - Wings Maker 1/5 J-3 Cub

  22. #21772

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    What's the chance of seeing some pics of your 150 with the ignition pickup installed?
    Thanks
    KenD
    Club Saito Member #773
    AMA 64943
    IMAA 23743
    VRCS 550

  23. #21773
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    C'mon you guys it's the nitro that puts the bark in the dog,hang the extra fuel costtomorrow may never come
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  24. #21774

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I recently purchased a Saito 220 NIB and it has a problem. I'm not new to Saitos but have never experienced this particular problem and need some advice. The problem is when I move the throttle past 1/2 it backfires and throws the prop assembly. NV setting is according to the instructions for break-in and it idles fine and runs up to half throttle with no problem.

  25. #21775

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: Old Fart

    C'mon you guys it's the nitro that puts the bark in the dog,hang the extra fuel costtomorrow may never come
    So true......................if you don't spend it your kids will after we're gone.


    Last week i ran in my SAITO 125A the one that seized up on me last fall. Got it back from Horizon......it is installed on a TF Sea Fury. With a 3-Blade Graupner it tached around 7000-7200 rpms. It still needs more running in. The high speed needle is 3 full turns out. The idle speed needle has not been touched yet, but it sitting 1mm below from flush. The weather turned cold again, so it will be a while for the next run.
    Total weight of the Sea Fury (empty) is between 13-14 lbs. I'm wondering if at those rpms/prop combination if it will be able to take off. What is the formula if there's any ? This prop generates more torque. Any comments from the warbirds guys ?
    WACO Brotherhood # 87
    Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood # 61
    SAITO MEMBER # 406


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