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  1. #21776
    SrTelemaster150's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: KenD

    What's the chance of seeing some pics of your 150 with the ignition pickup installed?
    Thanks
    Pretty good actually.

    In fact, I have PIX of installing the hall sensor & trigger ring. (this is an old C&H unit that I ran back in '97-'98) I also got shots of my homemade pointer as well as the 3 steps involved in finding TDC.

    I'll have to get them downloaded to Photobucket this evening & then I can post them.

    Just converting to EI increaed RPM by 4% & decreased fuel consumption by 19% when using the same 15% Cool Power. This was W/an 18X8 prop that was a bit of overload for static. I did a consupsion test way back W/a 16X8 prop & the fuel consumption dropped dramatically more.

    C&H is no longer in business, but ST Engines makes a conversion based on the same type of easy adjust trigger ring & cam housing mounted hall sensor. Their unit is engineered much better than the old C&H, but it is just as user friendly.

    Here is a clip that shows the complete gas conversion. It shows the ease of the ingnition conversion that is a much better set up for adjusting the ignition timeing than the Saito OEM system. The Saito system relys on accurate placement of the trigger magnet in the prop hub & making fine adjusments via the hall sensor. the C&H as well as ST Engines system allows infinite adjustment of the trigger ring.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_IBYmQA-pM[/youtube]
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  2. #21777

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Thanks, I have the complete conversion setup, just wondered how the pickup assembly was installed because of the splines near the prop hub. BTW CH ignitions are alive and well and being producted by a different person.
    KenD
    Club Saito Member #773
    AMA 64943
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  3. #21778

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Where would you buy this conversion kit shown in the video? How much $$$? Is that with a Walbro pumper carb that can run gasoline?
    THANKS.
    Content, but not Complacent.

  4. #21779

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: Garthwood


    ORIGINAL: Old Fart

    C'mon you guys it's the nitro that puts the bark in the dog,hang the extra fuel costtomorrow may never come
    So true......................if you don't spend it your kids will after we're gone.


    Last week i ran in my SAITO 125A the one that seized up on me last fall. Got it back from Horizon......it is installed on a TF Sea Fury. With a 3-Blade Graupner it tached around 7000-7200 rpms. It still needs more running in. The high speed needle is 3 full turns out. The idle speed needle has not been touched yet, but it sitting 1mm below from flush. The weather turned cold again, so it will be a while for the next run.
    Total weight of the Sea Fury (empty) is between 13-14 lbs. I'm wondering if at those rpms/prop combination if it will be able to take off. What is the formula if there's any ? This prop generates more torque. Any comments from the warbirds guys ?
    I have a Great Planes Giant Stick with a Saito 1.8 that weighs 14 lbs. I wish I had more power or that the plane weighed less.
    Content, but not Complacent.

  5. #21780
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    flycatch, it's going lean for some reason, could be dangerous until you figure it out, wear your safety equipment. As soon as a 4-stroke goes lean the combustion timing advances radically and..... BAM. Souds like fuel flow is restricted somewhat, air leak at intake O-ring, or whatever. Richen the needles up drastically and see if it still does it. Good luck, keep us posted.

    Ernie Misner

  6. #21781

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Garthwood

    You have that 125 loaded up with the Graupner. You should be up around the low 9K's. At that weight the airplane will fly but may be sluggish. Unload it and let it work. Follow the normal tuning process with a different prop.

    Jim
    RC Specialties, LLC, Four Stroke Mufflers and 90 Degree Exhaust Adapters

  7. #21782

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Dear all,
    I'm not a club member, but I would love be...

    I have a question.
    Is there any bad if I mount the exaust pipe pointing up like showed on the picture?

  8. #21783
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    They run fine that way
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  9. #21784

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    pic
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  10. #21785
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I think it looks neat with the smoke coming out the top of the engine as the airplane flies along.

    The engine does not care.

    However, from a theory point of view, if the engine is flooded at starting, there is no way for the fuel to get out.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  11. #21786
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    is that plane upside down?
    Saito Club Member #578
    P-40 Brotherhood #62

  12. #21787
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Some teflon tape on all the exhaust threads might keep her a little cleaner. I like a percentage of castor too.......

    Ernie

  13. #21788

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    *
    Castor oil in gas (Petrol) OR is it nitro?? Is that an ignition sensor mount near the prop driver...? Where's the carby?

    Regards, Ross
    radial1951
    _______________

    ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

    Some teflon tape on all the exhaust threads might keep her a little cleaner. I like a percentage of castor too.......

    Ernie

  14. #21789

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: RC Specialties

    Garthwood

    You have that 125 loaded up with the Graupner. You should be up around the low 9K's. At that weight the airplane will fly but may be sluggish. Unload it and let it work. Follow the normal tuning process with a different prop.

    Jim
    Jim......thank you. I know that the 3-blade prop is loading up. What you are saying is that first I should make the normal running in procedure with a 2-blade prop like a 16x8 . After that I can install back the 3-blade prop ?
    With a 3-blade prop I was expecting only around 8000 rpms.
    WACO Brotherhood # 87
    Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood # 61
    SAITO MEMBER # 406

  15. #21790
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Oops, it does look like a gasser, so probably no castor, sorry, ..... still might be leaking a bit at those joints.

    Ernie

  16. #21791

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Gartwood,

    You want to avoid loading up an engine too much in any case. Use a three blade that will keep your engine in a proper rpm range. I believe the one you have is too much prop for that engine, given the rpm you stated.

    Jim
    RC Specialties, LLC, Four Stroke Mufflers and 90 Degree Exhaust Adapters

  17. #21792

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: RC Specialties

    Gartwood,

    You want to avoid loading up an engine too much in any case. Use a three blade that will keep your engine in a proper rpm range. I believe the one you have is too much prop for that engine, given the rpm you stated.

    Jim
    JIM..............Thanks. I'll probably switch to a 16x8 2-blade.
    WACO Brotherhood # 87
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  18. #21793
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Ernie it looks from the pic that it runs very hot around the exhaust header area,is this normal for a gas saito? how much hotter do they run compared to a nitro saito?
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  19. #21794

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: Old Fart

    Ernie it looks from the pic that it runs very hot around the exhaust header area,is this normal for a gas saito? how much hotter do they run compared to a nitro saito?
    I think gas does run hotter, but I think maybe that gunk around and on the muffler may be from before the glow to gas conversion? I would like to know as I am thinking to convert my FA 180 to gas or maybe to glow with spark ignition to improve fuel economy.

    Sincerely, Richard

  20. #21795
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Good question guys, maybe the owner of that gasser will chime in. We do know that gas can run a lot hotter without the cooling effect of all that alcohol going through. You get an equal amount of oxygen but the alcohol mixes at a ratio of approx.? 8 to one instead of 14 to 1 with gas. You can feel the cooling action of alcohol when it evaporates from your hand plus there's that much more going through the pipe line.

    Ernie

  21. #21796

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hi Everyone,
    I have a .65 Satio Golden Knight four stroke. I put it on a H9 piper pawnee 40. It was very doggy. I love this engine! I want
    to find a model for this engine. I was thinking of a Sig Astro Hog, would this be a good fit for this great engine.

    Thanks for any input
    \'\'\'\'But who\'\'s going to fly it kid, you?\'\'\'\' Han Solo

  22. #21797
    GaGeeBees's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Any of the 1/5 scale Cubs are a great match. Hangar 9, Great Planes, SIG...
    ...and then the unthinkable happened!

  23. #21798
    SrTelemaster150's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: spaceworm


    ORIGINAL: Old Fart

    Ernie it looks from the pic that it runs very hot around the exhaust header area,is this normal for a gas saito? how much hotter do they run compared to a nitro saito?
    I think gas does run hotter, but I think maybe that gunk around and on the muffler may be from before the glow to gas conversion? I would like to know as I am thinking to convert my FA 180 to gas or maybe to glow with spark ignition to improve fuel economy.

    Sincerely, Richard
    I just did some testing W/my FA 150

    A: glow iginition W/15% Cool Power

    B:C&H Electronic Ignition on 15% CP

    C:C&H EI on 15:1 E85/KLOTZ mix

    All W/a Dynathrust 18X8 nylon prop, tank filled to overflow, glow ignited run started & run 30s W/glow igniter @ high idle, then 30s @ high idle W/O GI before WOT run, then WOT until 1st sign of surge, then shut down & temp reading taken
    All EI runs started & run @ high idle for 60s, then WOT until 1st sign of surge, then shut down & temp readings taken.

    Results:

    A: 7700 RPM, 1700 RPM idle, ran 9m 45s @ WOT on 16oz fuel, 241*F Cylinder Head Temperture after full run

    B: 7850 RPM, 1400 RPM idle, ran 12m 00 s @ WOT on 16oz fuel, 271*F CHT after full run

    C: 7500 RPM, 1400 RPM idle, ran 15 minutes @ WOT & was shut down after about 8oz of fuel consumed, 291*F CHT after 15 minute WOT run (timing was advanced to 35* BTDC compared to 28* BTDC for the 15% CP run)

    The EI on 15% CP increased RPM by 2% while getting 23% better fuel economy.

    For comparison, my FA 180 turned the same prop on glow ignition W/15% CP @ 8000 RPM & drained the 16oz tank in 6m 45s That's a 4% increase in RPM (12% HP increase according to Saito spec) while decreasing fuel economy by nearly 30%

    I think W/some more timing advance, the FA 150 on 15% CP & EI would have closed the RPM gap W/the FA 180 even more or even exceeded it W/O significantly decreasing fuel economy as 7* more timing advance improved the RPM on the E85 run by 300 RPM.

    By comparison the FG 36 users are reporting only about a 200 RPM advantage Wan 18X8 prop over the FA 150 running E85/KLOTZ 15:1 mix on EI.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  24. #21799

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Ok, just got my saito fa56 back friday from HH. Went to the field and through a tank a fuel in it. Had to lean it out almost a half of a turn. That puts it at 1 1/8 turn open... Doesn't seem like enough. It runs hot, gonna take my minitemp today and find out how hot.
      They replaced bearings and gasket set, cleaned and installed new glow plug. Said they ran it in and it ran great on there bench. Why am I needing to lean it out than? They are right across the state line in Il., I'm in MO. Should run the same.. And they leaned the low end way out. there is a very slight gap inbetween lowend and idle bar or spray bar whatever.. Seems a bit lean. It doesn't want to transition up top? can't get rpms even when leaned out up top.. and it still will stumble. I'm confused...Do you think the low end could be too lean?
    Fly high!!! To avoid the GROUND!
    Yak 55m 74inch, escapade 40, ultra stick 40

  25. #21800

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Same fuel and prop as they were using?


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