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  1. #22551
    SrTelemaster150's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

    Here is my early Saito 1.50s, you see the O-ring is in the same p[lace as the Saito 2.20 carb I post a few days ago, SR posted it again above.

    PS. if there is no nipple on it, how do you connect the fuel ine to the carb, Thanks

    That doesn't look a whole lot different than the 2.20. That's why I thought it was a picture of a 150 spraybar I posted. Thanks for the clarification.

    As for the OP on the "O" ring topic. If his HS needle wobbles & shuts the engine down when he touches it, sure sounds like the "O" ring might be the culprit.

    What do you think?
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  2. #22552
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Food for thought,
    If there is a air leak in the fuel supply line, and one does not know it they may well try to get the engine to run by backing out the HS needle to richen the mixture. One could back it out so far that the needle will wobble and kill the engine when it is touched.

    Just saying.
    Larry
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  3. #22553
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Well, when folks post a question with no pictures we are reduced to arm chair mechanics with lots of knowledege and experience but we don't get good empirical data with which to make a diagnosis, the statement, saying it has no nipple makes no sence since they all have one. If that statement is true then someone ground the end down flat and removed the O-ring groove in the proces.. We need a picture. That would explain the wobbling too.
    Case 570 Diesel, 188.4 Cu. In. HP==36 @ 1,900 RPM, CR 17.5 to 1. Bore==3.8125, Stroke==4.125

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  4. #22554
    SrTelemaster150's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: Sharpeye22

    Â*Food for thought,
    Â* Â* Â* If there is a air leak in the fuel supply line, and one does not know it they may well try to get the engine to run by backing out the HS needle to richen the mixture. Â*One could back it out so far that the needle will wobble and kill the engine when it is touched.

    Just saying.

    Valid point. It would be helpful if MADMECHANIX2 would check the number of turns that his HS needle is out from bottom. It could well be some sort of fuel delivery problem. I think the HS needle would have to be turned completely off the threads & then some or it to wobble though.

    Last night when I examined the carb on my dismantled 150 I was able to feel the "O" ring snugness as soon as I inserted the HS needle into the spray bar past the tapered portion. It was far from engaging any threads.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  5. #22555
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

    Well, when folks post a question with no pictures we are reduced to arm chair mechanics with lots of knowledege and experience but we don't get good empirical data with which to make a diagnosis, the statement, saying it has no nipple makes no sence since they all have one. If that statement is true then someone ground the end down flat and removed the O-ring groove in the proces.. We need a picture. That would explain the wobbling too.

    Maybe someone just unscrewed the nipple.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  6. #22556

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I have the high side out 3 1/2 turns out

  7. #22557
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: MADMECHANIX2

    Â*I have the high side out 3 1/2 turns outÂ*

    Well that sounds like a normal setting.

    Since you know your setting why not screw the needle out all the way. Remove it & inspect to see if the "O" ring is in place. You should feel some resistance/snugness as soon as the parallel section behind the taper is re-inserted a slight amount into the spray bar where the "O" ring should be located.



    There are enough PIX & advise posted here for you to make an accessment before sending your engine back to Horizon.

    BTW: What is your low speed setting? The initial setting should be 1 turn out from flush W/the throttle barrel. Set your HSN 1st, then adjust the LSN for idle & transition.

    Do you have @ least 40 minutes run time or about a quart of fuel run through it yet? If not, you should not be attempting to make final adjustments to the carb. The engine should not be run over 4000 RPM until it has had some run time to break in. You will not be able to make final adjustments to an engine that is no broken in.
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    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  8. #22558
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Be aware that the 4,000 rpm with the HS needle at 5 turns is for no longer than 10 minutes, at that setting the cylinder is so cold that no break in ocurrs. After the initial 10 minutes at 4,000 I lean it until it just stops missing then do 10 minutes at each succeding 1,000 rpm. I've broken in 30 plus Saitos this way and all turned out perfect. Normally during the 5,000 rpm run the rpm increases on its own to about 5,500, you can hear it accelerating as it frees up and the ring seals better. During the 6,000 rpm 10 minute run it will accelerate about 150 to 200 rpm, it seldom changes during the 7,000 rpm 10 minute period.
    Case 570 Diesel, 188.4 Cu. In. HP==36 @ 1,900 RPM, CR 17.5 to 1. Bore==3.8125, Stroke==4.125

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  9. #22559
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hobbsy, there is a nipple for the fuel line, I meant the little bump on the end of the spray bar where you said the O-ring went. Mine is flat. Tom
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  10. #22560
    Moderator blw's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Dave,that's one thing I really like about breaking in Saitos- you can hear the engine break in. You can see them start running smoother.
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  11. #22561
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hobbsy, just blind I guess. Went back and looked at the spraybar and there was the O-ring, right where you said it was. Brain fart. Thanks again to you and SR for the help. Tom
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  12. #22562
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Thanks Barry, Saito's don't have a whole lot that ectually needs broken in, a glass smooth chrome bore no steel cylinder, the parts just need to become an engine and that doesn't take long.

    You're welcome Tom, glad you found it. sorry about the mix up on the terminology.
    Case 570 Diesel, 188.4 Cu. In. HP==36 @ 1,900 RPM, CR 17.5 to 1. Bore==3.8125, Stroke==4.125

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  13. #22563
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Synthetics have definitely come a long ways and the plane is easier to clean up. Just don't have a hot, lean run accidentally and be aware of going to fields at differing elevations without retuning, changes in weather patterns, cowled engines without enough intake / exit opening, pinholes in a fuel line, plugged filter, too large prop, etc.

    Thanks,

    Ernie Misner

  14. #22564
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    And use fuel with enough oil in it, I like SIG Syn Plus.
    Club Saito # 677-Team Boca Bearings-Star Collectibles Muscatine-Glowhead Brotherhood #19

  15. #22565
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I keep some castor and synthetic oil on hand. I add a little castor to the YS 20/20 type and a little more synthetic to the Omega types. (because the former has no castor at all and the latter to bring it up to 20% oil content.....

    For measuring, those little 2 oz. ketchup container /cup things from the restaurant supply are real handy for adding the oil (I use 2 of them) and they're great for mixing epoxy in too.

    Ernie

  16. #22566
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Love that castor

    Club Saito # 677-Team Boca Bearings-Star Collectibles Muscatine-Glowhead Brotherhood #19

  17. #22567

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Guys,

    Thanks for the break in procedure. My follow up question is on the initial start up and subsequent start ups. What is the prefered method for starting the Saito 180? I have a Saito 72 and just love how it flies my Kadet Senior. With that engine all I do is wing it over with the electric starter with the glow driver on automatic. Fires right up! I have a glow driver on the 180 that is set to come on at 1/4 throttle and go off at 1/2 throttle. I hear lots of stories from guys on getting the engine really well primed and to turn it over counterclockwise using a glove by hand until it bumps and then flipping it in reverse causing it to backfire and then fire in the right or counterclockwise direction?? This sounds a bit crazy to me. Any better suggestions?? Thanks!!
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  18. #22568
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    This sounds a bit crazy to me

    Once you develope the "touch", you'll pretty much ignore your starter. When I use a starter, I don't prime at all, I just let the engine pull the fuel up.
    Case 570 Diesel, 188.4 Cu. In. HP==36 @ 1,900 RPM, CR 17.5 to 1. Bore==3.8125, Stroke==4.125

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  19. #22569

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I don't prime the engine either when using the starter, no chance of hydro locking an inverted engine if there is no fuel in it.

    I used the chicken stick for a long time to start my Saito, but got tired of damaging $13 props with it.

    Cory

  20. #22570
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I have found that improper prime will sometimes cause a backfire and throw the prop nut. All my Saitos are inverted, so maybe that's why hydrolocking is never a problem?
    Saito Club Member #578
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  21. #22571
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Mike, I think you pointed to your problem with the second sentence in your post.

    inverted is when you worry about hydrolocking as the fuel will drain to and pool in the head since that will likely be the lowest part of the system, (if the carb is even with the centerline of the tank). If you improperly prime you can introduce a slug of fuel into the cylinder when the intake valve opens. Once the piston comes up and hits the motor will come to an IMMEDIATE stop.

    Personally I have never had a Saito lose a prop at idle, (not to say it can't happen). Only running too lean on the HS needle.
    Club Saito Member # 787
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  22. #22572

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Trick developed from my time with round engines.  Offset the inverted engine so the exhaust valve is at the lowest point (thus allowing excess fuel to puddle around the closed valve) pul the engine through one complete cycle (no glo driver connected or activated) and guess what no hydro locking.  Doesn't work on normal diesels though, but does work at treat on my Enya 4C diesel (you know the one Enya made a few years ago)
    Club Saito member 710

  23. #22573
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

    This sounds a bit crazy to me

    Once you develope the ''touch'', you'll pretty much ignore your starter. When I use a starter, I don't prime at all, I just let the engine pull the fuel up.

    I will use a starter on the initial start up when I 1st get to the field. I don't prime either & I close the throttle all the way as well as the throttle trim. That insures that intake air /fuel that is pulled into the cylinder is minimal allowing the starter to easily turn over the engine due to reduced cylinder pressure.

    After the engine is turning at a good clip I slowly open the throttle just above idle W/the throttle tirm. As soon as sufficient air/fuel starts being pulled into the cylinder, the engine starts firing.

    While at the field or when I want to restart the engine after a shut down, I use throttle trim to kill the engine. That keeps fuel in the lines making "priming" unneccessary. I then just flip start the engine. At the end of my flying session I run all fuel out of the lines after pumping the tank dry.

    Of course EI makes all this much more consistant, but I still use the same proceedure on my glow ignition FA91.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  24. #22574

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Basically I follow the same procedure, works well and simple
    Club Saito member 710

  25. #22575
    SrTelemaster150's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: FNQFLYER

    Basically I follow the same procedure, works well and simple

    Yes it does & if one uses a fuel shutoff type fill valve or pinches off the fuel line to the carburetor while fueling, it prevents hydrolock.

    I can use a standard 12V 90 size starter to start my FA180 & even my 300TTDP. It won't budge either past the compression stroke when the proceedure is initiated W/the throttle open the least little bit.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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