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03-19-2006, 01:01 PM
#2276
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Bill R.
I am using a Saito 180, with a Keleo Scale exhaust for my Curtiss Hawk P-6E. Kelvin has installed the pressure tap on the left hand bank of 12 exhaust tubes. I'm worried that there will not be sufficient pressure available to activate the Iron Bay fuel pressure regulator. Is the fitting at the back of the crankcase a source of pressure from the down stroke of the piston? I realize that the upstroke would create a vacumn, but they include a check valve (#1) to insure one way flow. This might create a problem that could be solved by installing a second check valve teed into the main line between the crankcase and the check valve (#2) to the tank.
The up stroke of the piston creates a vacumn drawing the outside air in thru #2 into the crankcase while #1 blocks the backflow from the tank. On the down stroke the piston forces the air into the tank thru #1, while #2 blocks the airflow.
Is this a workable scheme or should I send it on to Rube Goldberg?
With reguards to your soft mount system, the only way I could install something like that is to move the firewall back, but thanks for the sketches. I'm sure I'll find a use for the idea on a later project.
I am using a Saito 180, with a Keleo Scale exhaust for my Curtiss Hawk P-6E. Kelvin has installed the pressure tap on the left hand bank of 12 exhaust tubes. I'm worried that there will not be sufficient pressure available to activate the Iron Bay fuel pressure regulator. Is the fitting at the back of the crankcase a source of pressure from the down stroke of the piston? I realize that the upstroke would create a vacumn, but they include a check valve (#1) to insure one way flow. This might create a problem that could be solved by installing a second check valve teed into the main line between the crankcase and the check valve (#2) to the tank.
The up stroke of the piston creates a vacumn drawing the outside air in thru #2 into the crankcase while #1 blocks the backflow from the tank. On the down stroke the piston forces the air into the tank thru #1, while #2 blocks the airflow.
Is this a workable scheme or should I send it on to Rube Goldberg?
With reguards to your soft mount system, the only way I could install something like that is to move the firewall back, but thanks for the sketches. I'm sure I'll find a use for the idea on a later project.
03-19-2006, 01:07 PM
#2277
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Bill R
Sorry, but I was in a hurry and didn't bother to read what I had typed. The sentence should read
This might create a problem that could be solved by installing a second check valve teed into the main line between the crankcase and the check valve #1 to the tank.
Sorry, but I was in a hurry and didn't bother to read what I had typed. The sentence should read
This might create a problem that could be solved by installing a second check valve teed into the main line between the crankcase and the check valve #1 to the tank.
03-19-2006, 01:26 PM
#2278
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
blkmesa:
By posting you should automatically get email notification of new posts, generated by the RCU software.
We have not set up any other notification system.
Bill.
By posting you should automatically get email notification of new posts, generated by the RCU software.
We have not set up any other notification system.
Bill.
03-19-2006, 01:53 PM
#2279
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
BQuartucy:
First, tey it with the tap on the exhaust ring. Put the check valve as close to the tap as you can. I can see that initial pressurization might make starting a bit hard, but if you can get it running and the tank bulges a little bit the pressure is fine.
IF you get it started and the mixture changes with the plane’s attitude – lean nose up, rich nose down, or any change at all, this indicates insufficient pressure.
Yes, the crank case vent has been used for a pressure source. In fact, the currently supplied “Pump†from Saito does just that. Saito gives you what looks like a remote needle, but with three nipples instead of two. You can use an ordinary remote needle to do the job.
As close as possible to the case vent install a tee, one side of the straight top will go to the vent, the other side will have the supplied check valve, again, as close to the tee as possible, leading to the tank vent.
Attach another hose to the vertical leg of the tee, run it to one side of your added remote needle.
What you are doing is allowing the positive pulses to go to the tank through the check valve, and keeping the case vent open through your new needle valve.
When you have the engine running you can adjust the tank pressure by opening or closing the remote needle. Start about 5-6 turns open, and never close it fully – the engine still needs an amount of atmospheric venting.
More info on adjustment is in the Large Saito Twins manual.
Bill.
First, tey it with the tap on the exhaust ring. Put the check valve as close to the tap as you can. I can see that initial pressurization might make starting a bit hard, but if you can get it running and the tank bulges a little bit the pressure is fine.
IF you get it started and the mixture changes with the plane’s attitude – lean nose up, rich nose down, or any change at all, this indicates insufficient pressure.
Yes, the crank case vent has been used for a pressure source. In fact, the currently supplied “Pump†from Saito does just that. Saito gives you what looks like a remote needle, but with three nipples instead of two. You can use an ordinary remote needle to do the job.
As close as possible to the case vent install a tee, one side of the straight top will go to the vent, the other side will have the supplied check valve, again, as close to the tee as possible, leading to the tank vent.
Attach another hose to the vertical leg of the tee, run it to one side of your added remote needle.
What you are doing is allowing the positive pulses to go to the tank through the check valve, and keeping the case vent open through your new needle valve.
When you have the engine running you can adjust the tank pressure by opening or closing the remote needle. Start about 5-6 turns open, and never close it fully – the engine still needs an amount of atmospheric venting.
More info on adjustment is in the Large Saito Twins manual.
Bill.
03-19-2006, 03:52 PM
#2280
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
All:
Just cleared up a misunderstanding (I hope) with one of our members.
When a member of RCU is a "Bad Boy" and makes a lot of questionable or undesirable posts, the moderators will put that member on what is called "Moderated" status, each of his posts has to be individually approved by a moderator before the rest of us can see it.
When one of these posts is made it has [awaiting approval] in the title line. This is what has happened to us - a second Post was made before a "Mod" post was approved, and the RCU software has latched on [awaiting approval] as the thread title.
So don't worry about it, when you get an email about a post in the [awaiting approval] thread click on it, it will bring you here.
Now, if Dave or Jim would edit the title we'd be back where we were. They can change it, you and I can not.
Bill.
Just cleared up a misunderstanding (I hope) with one of our members.
When a member of RCU is a "Bad Boy" and makes a lot of questionable or undesirable posts, the moderators will put that member on what is called "Moderated" status, each of his posts has to be individually approved by a moderator before the rest of us can see it.
When one of these posts is made it has [awaiting approval] in the title line. This is what has happened to us - a second Post was made before a "Mod" post was approved, and the RCU software has latched on [awaiting approval] as the thread title.
So don't worry about it, when you get an email about a post in the [awaiting approval] thread click on it, it will bring you here.
Now, if Dave or Jim would edit the title we'd be back where we were. They can change it, you and I can not.
Bill.
03-19-2006, 07:45 PM
#2282
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
ORIGINAL: powerlines
OK here is a question. I got a 120 that was sat up for a while. I got her back running and she runs great BUT I feel like it should have more power that it does. I have a 16x4W prop on her and It will bogg down till it runs up. Just slow to wind up. Is this normal? It does have good power. I am not saying great just good. I think the 100 has just about the same power if not more.. Other than that. It runs great idles forever and runs like a top..
LATER
OK here is a question. I got a 120 that was sat up for a while. I got her back running and she runs great BUT I feel like it should have more power that it does. I have a 16x4W prop on her and It will bogg down till it runs up. Just slow to wind up. Is this normal? It does have good power. I am not saying great just good. I think the 100 has just about the same power if not more.. Other than that. It runs great idles forever and runs like a top..
LATER
OK I went to a 15x4W and it did a little better but not much. I have a 100 also and It has way more power than the 120. Could the rings be gone and is there a special way to possition the ring when you put it back in?? I will try the line pinch trick tomorrow. For now I put the 100 on the funtana and I now need a 125. Being this is my like 10 Saito. I should get 50% off.. LOL
Thanks for the advice. OH YEA!! The 16x4 and 15x4 the funtana recomends the 4 props. I like you like the 6 better. I may just put that on there and manage the gas..
03-19-2006, 07:55 PM
#2283
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Lines:
If it's just slow revving it could well be perfectly OK. Do you know how old it is? Possibly it's an earlier engine, they weren't as powerful as the later FA-120.
Post a picture of the front of the engine, angled to the crank. :et me see both sides and the top of the cam box.
Bill.
If it's just slow revving it could well be perfectly OK. Do you know how old it is? Possibly it's an earlier engine, they weren't as powerful as the later FA-120.
Post a picture of the front of the engine, angled to the crank. :et me see both sides and the top of the cam box.
Bill.
03-19-2006, 08:58 PM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Lines:
Yours is the AAC version with the "High" cam.
It is possible the ring is worn, but that's a really high time thing unless you run in dusty air. More probably the valves are loose, that robs a lot more power than people think. Check them,et them at 0.002" maximum, better at 0.0015" clearance.
Another could be rough bearings - they will also absorb a lot of power. I picked up about 1200 rpm on one engine with nothing but a bearing change.
Just two more suggestions. One is really stupid, but it is also easy to miss. Are you sure the throttle is going fully open? As I said, it's easy to miss.
Finally, the fuel. Yours is the low compression version, it responds very happily to high nitro. To me 15% is plenty, but some run as high as 30% in them.
Oh yes, one more thing. If it is moderately high time, and has been run on pure synthetic, the cam could be badly worn. Be sure to use a fuel with some castor oil in it.
Bill.
Yours is the AAC version with the "High" cam.
It is possible the ring is worn, but that's a really high time thing unless you run in dusty air. More probably the valves are loose, that robs a lot more power than people think. Check them,et them at 0.002" maximum, better at 0.0015" clearance.
Another could be rough bearings - they will also absorb a lot of power. I picked up about 1200 rpm on one engine with nothing but a bearing change.
Just two more suggestions. One is really stupid, but it is also easy to miss. Are you sure the throttle is going fully open? As I said, it's easy to miss.
Finally, the fuel. Yours is the low compression version, it responds very happily to high nitro. To me 15% is plenty, but some run as high as 30% in them.
Oh yes, one more thing. If it is moderately high time, and has been run on pure synthetic, the cam could be badly worn. Be sure to use a fuel with some castor oil in it.
Bill.
03-19-2006, 09:12 PM
#2286
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Well I just checked the valves before I went to the field today and they were out but now they are good.
Like I stated when I got the engine It was locked up and would not turn. I had to work it loose. I need to replace the ring and bearings.
Throttle wise yep. I check that close on all my planes. My way is getting the throttle open with the radio and then pushing the arm on the carb to see if it will move anymore. Yep I have lots that do that and it is easy to miss..
I also run Cool Power 20% only and synt only. Morgan so no after run oil needed..
The cam thing scares me.. I may just sell it back to my Bro in law and get the 125.. He wants to put it in an old war plane so not really woried about the power..
OH YEA! Thanks so much for your help..
LATER
Like I stated when I got the engine It was locked up and would not turn. I had to work it loose. I need to replace the ring and bearings.
Throttle wise yep. I check that close on all my planes. My way is getting the throttle open with the radio and then pushing the arm on the carb to see if it will move anymore. Yep I have lots that do that and it is easy to miss..
I also run Cool Power 20% only and synt only. Morgan so no after run oil needed..
The cam thing scares me.. I may just sell it back to my Bro in law and get the 125.. He wants to put it in an old war plane so not really woried about the power..
OH YEA! Thanks so much for your help..
LATER
03-19-2006, 09:16 PM
#2287
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Hey Bill,
Have you read that article in Radio Control Report by their new "engine guru" about Castor oil?? Brian Winch is the guy. He made the statement that castor oil is 50 year old technology and because it is corrosive should never be used. Also says if you used sealed bearings on the front end, the pressure will build up and he's seen the front end of an engine blown right off.
Have you read that article in Radio Control Report by their new "engine guru" about Castor oil?? Brian Winch is the guy. He made the statement that castor oil is 50 year old technology and because it is corrosive should never be used. Also says if you used sealed bearings on the front end, the pressure will build up and he's seen the front end of an engine blown right off.
03-19-2006, 09:16 PM
#2288
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Hi all, about fuel I have Power Master 15% Nitro Helicoper fuel 20% oil All Synthetic, do I need to add castor oil ? And if so how much to a gal.?
Dennis
Dennis
03-19-2006, 09:34 PM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Lines:
Cool Power is all synthetic. Switch to Omega, same manufacturer but the Omega is a castor/synthetic blend.
You didn't say if the engine ran differently after resetting the valves.
The FA-125 is lighter than the FA-120, but surprisingly, all the reports show it less powerful. The lighter weight makes up for the lower power though.
-------------------------
Dennis:
Four ounces of castor oil added to a gallon of all synthetic gives you right at 3% castor oil, and that's enough.
Bill.
Cool Power is all synthetic. Switch to Omega, same manufacturer but the Omega is a castor/synthetic blend.
You didn't say if the engine ran differently after resetting the valves.
The FA-125 is lighter than the FA-120, but surprisingly, all the reports show it less powerful. The lighter weight makes up for the lower power though.
-------------------------
Dennis:
Four ounces of castor oil added to a gallon of all synthetic gives you right at 3% castor oil, and that's enough.
Bill.
03-19-2006, 09:37 PM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Lines:
One more thing. When the fuel maker says after run oil is not needed, believe it at your (and your engine's) peril. Might be OK on a two stroke engine, but running a four stroke engine it just is not so. Use ARO religiously. Your bearings will thank you for it.
Bill.
One more thing. When the fuel maker says after run oil is not needed, believe it at your (and your engine's) peril. Might be OK on a two stroke engine, but running a four stroke engine it just is not so. Use ARO religiously. Your bearings will thank you for it.
Bill.
03-19-2006, 09:44 PM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Got it and will do. I have some Castor in the shop. I will put it in and get it ready.. AND the engine did run better after adjusting the valves.. Just not as much power as I had hoped for. The plane was really light. Only 8lb 13oz with the 120. Now with the 100 it's just 8lb 3 oz. That is awesome. Knowing my luck the scales are off.. LOL they say my foamy-tana is 13oz.
LATER
LATER
03-19-2006, 10:25 PM
#2292
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
ORIGINAL: loughbd
Hey Bill,
Have you read that article in Radio Control Report by their new "engine guru" about Castor oil?? Brian Winch is the guy. He made the statement that castor oil is 50 year old technology and because it is corrosive should never be used. Also says if you used sealed bearings on the front end, the pressure will build up and he's seen the front end of an engine blown right off.
Hey Bill,
Have you read that article in Radio Control Report by their new "engine guru" about Castor oil?? Brian Winch is the guy. He made the statement that castor oil is 50 year old technology and because it is corrosive should never be used. Also says if you used sealed bearings on the front end, the pressure will build up and he's seen the front end of an engine blown right off.
loughbd
Hi mate,
Can you point me to this article please? Mr. Winch has a bit of a rep here in Oz (I'll just leave it at that) and I would like to keep an eye on what he is saying.
Thanks in advance
TC
03-19-2006, 10:36 PM
#2293
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Lough:
It's far more than 50 years old, more like 150. James Watt used vegetable lubricants in his first steam engines. And from the start almost all automobiles used castor oil in their engines. In racing castor oil was still predominant into the 1950s. There is still no synthetic that offers the high film strength and high temperature lubrication supplied by castor oil.
All acids are corrosive, and the acids formed in the cylinder combustion are far stronger than any acidic property of the castor oil. Do you eat a salad with vinegar on it? That's acetic acid, and also far stronger than castor oil. And you are putting it in YOU.
Remotely possible on a four stroke if the case vent is stopped up, but on a two stroke I'll have to say it's absolute bull hockey.
Saito engines, just as an example, have absolutely no front end sealing except the bearing. A sealed bearing is original equipment in them.
Bill.
ORIGINAL: loughbd
Have you read that article in Radio Control Report by their new "engine guru" about Castor oil?? Brian Winch is the guy. He made the statement that castor oil is 50 year old technology...
Have you read that article in Radio Control Report by their new "engine guru" about Castor oil?? Brian Winch is the guy. He made the statement that castor oil is 50 year old technology...
...and because it is corrosive should never be used.
Also says if you used sealed bearings on the front end, the pressure will build up and he's seen the front end of an engine blown right off.
Saito engines, just as an example, have absolutely no front end sealing except the bearing. A sealed bearing is original equipment in them.
Bill.
03-19-2006, 11:29 PM
#2294
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Hey ,
You don't have to tell me that. I think the guy is an idiot but he's writing that stuff in a national magazine. That's where all these old wives tales start. You could pressurize the crankcase of a 4 cycle to 50 pounds and it would never blow the front end off. Enngine would quit long before anyway.
You don't have to tell me that. I think the guy is an idiot but he's writing that stuff in a national magazine. That's where all these old wives tales start. You could pressurize the crankcase of a 4 cycle to 50 pounds and it would never blow the front end off. Enngine would quit long before anyway.
03-19-2006, 11:31 PM
#2295
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Right on Bill:
It is heartwarming to see some one that knows what they are doing set the so called high paid (somebody`s brotherin law)"experts" straight......Keep up the good work......You know what the definition of a "expert" is don`t you....
-------an ex is a hasbeen and a spert is a drip under pressure------
We are all appreciative of your knowledge of engines that is passed on to us, to make our R/C flying more enjoyable..........
JohnS555
03-19-2006, 11:42 PM
#2296
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
You guys all missed the point. You know and I know that he is full of it but how many new guys read this stuff and figure the guy is writing in a magazine so it must be the thruth??? I spent half my time when I worked for hobby Shack disproving all the crap put out by the so called club expets.
03-20-2006, 12:17 AM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Mr. Robison:
If you look back through the posts you will see that your post, #2188, is the first with the new heading of "(awaiting approval)". Whose nose did you twist this time? Or are you really under investigation for compromising your security clearance and national security? Shame shame.
Haw
If you look back through the posts you will see that your post, #2188, is the first with the new heading of "(awaiting approval)". Whose nose did you twist this time? Or are you really under investigation for compromising your security clearance and national security? Shame shame.
Haw
03-20-2006, 12:30 AM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Sol:
Oh PHOO!! I've been found out!
Actually, I do know who it is, and he posts here a bit, usually contentious, and he is NOT a numbered member of Club Saito.
Bill.
Oh PHOO!! I've been found out!
Actually, I do know who it is, and he posts here a bit, usually contentious, and he is NOT a numbered member of Club Saito.
Bill.
03-20-2006, 12:37 AM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
Bill or any helpful personage, If I want to put a Saito (keepin it on topic 
) picture in as my avatar, how do I go about it?
TC
) picture in as my avatar, how do I go about it?TC
03-20-2006, 12:45 AM
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RE: [Awaiting Approval]
TC:
Go to your profile, then click "Edit." As you work through you'll see the avatar box, and a "Browse" button. You can select a picture from your computer to load.
Or at least that's the way it was, should still be the same.
Bill.
Go to your profile, then click "Edit." As you work through you'll see the avatar box, and a "Browse" button. You can select a picture from your computer to load.
Or at least that's the way it was, should still be the same.
Bill.