Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

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Old 09-24-2012, 05:36 PM
  #23226
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Sr. Tele ...
I don't think there's moisture in the fuel as I've used 3 different jugs of it today. Ifinished 2 partial jugs and opened a new one. I'm running the new one now (30% heli fuel) and it's doing the same thing.

I tried adjusting both needles to those recommended ....i.e. LSN flush with throttle barrel and HSN2 turns out but, no help. I could get it started after adjusting the LSN a bit but, there was no transition and it would not go to full throttle. I'm now beginning to wonder if my LSN and HSN are at fault.

Any ideas would be helpful.

Thanks,
RJ
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:48 PM
  #23227
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would not a leak on the intake manifold bring in addition air and lean it out, making it run hot and needing to be richened up? if i recall it's just an O-ring. i try to start with the cheapest fix first.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:53 PM
  #23228
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Fred,
Thanks for that tip. It's a possibility. Is there an "carb over-haul kit" for these engines? I'm new to glow engines, especially 4 strokes, and don't have much of a clue about these things. I've read this thread very thoroughly and I wish Icould remember it all but, at my age I'm lucky to remember my own name.
I'll gather the parts and put in new ones. I also will replace the LSN and HSN to be sure they aren't the problem. Being a used engine Ihave no way of knowing how it was really treated.

RJ
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:17 PM
  #23229
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Just did a search for a "carb kit"for the FA-80 and it exists in the form of an "upgrade" kit. Horizon was out of them so I did a search for the part no. but, everyone seemed to be out of them except one place in NY called Wholesale Trains. For $8.16 each I bought 2. The kit comes with a couple of "O" rings and a HSN and a couple of other small parts. My order should arrive by Thursday (hopefully).

RJ
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:01 AM
  #23230
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Hey rowdy don't give up man.I know it seems frustrating at times but when you are new to running these engines and you read what people say about that it all seems to make sense until you try it yourself..that's when my problems started.I read it all and thought that it had been understood but lack of experience got in the way of me having perfect engine runs and super maxxed out needle settings..which of course would have given me 500rpm more than anyone else was getting after a while it slowly starts to make more sense to you when you are trying this yourself so please be patient.The sound a well tuned one makes and the pleasure you will get from flying it in a good aeroplane is well worth the effort it takes,and it does take quite a bit of that.Happy sounds to you mate
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:11 AM
  #23231
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I find it unusual that 2 different engines would experience the same tuning issues due to mechanical (carburetor) problems.

That makes me believe that the problem lies in an external factor cause.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:37 AM
  #23232
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What you are doing with saito engines is facinating all due respect but unless i did'nt explain my thoughts well you are on the wrong there friend.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:47 AM
  #23233
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart

What you are doing with saito engines is facinating all due respect but unless i did'nt explain my thoughts well you are on the wrong there friend.
Hey I am a owner of a Satio 1.50 engine. Can you explain "on the wrong there" I am trying to gather all data and sort it out on my engine.

Thanks, Capt,n
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:37 AM
  #23234
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

I find it unusual that 2 different engines would experience the same tuning issues due to mechanical (carburetor) problems.

That makes me believe that the problem lies in an external factor cause.

I'm sure there is an external problem. It's that empty space between my ears.
Actually, they aren't having the same problem. Both engines problems are centered around tuning the carb but, the 80s (with TH) is running fine but, Ihad an 800 rpm drop between engine runs which were about a week apart. Still need to work that one out.
The 80GK (stock muff)is also having tuning issues in that it won't tune at all. Ibelieve I've narrowed the issue down to faulty components so, I'll install the rebuild/upgrade kit in it and hope that solves the problem.

Ihad trouble tuning the 80s because Iwas totally ignorant of the process and you guys helped me through it. It's running OK, just down on rpm. Ihad hoped to crank it up today to see if I could tweak it back to the original peak rpm but, "the boss" has other plans for me today. Hope to get the opportunity to do that tomorrow.

RJ

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Old 09-25-2012, 03:36 PM
  #23235
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while they are cold, make sure you check valve lash.....process of ilimination....... like i said, i do the cheapest things first. The reason i said to check the oring on the manifiold is Horizon Hobbies taught me that lesson to the tune of $57 for their help
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:38 PM
  #23236
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Hi Airborn

Where do you fly in Corning, NY? I am From Watkins Glen.

Bruce
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:58 PM
  #23237
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Fred L

while they are cold, make sure you check valve lash.....process of ilimination....... like i said, i do the cheapest things first. The reason i said to check the oring on the manifiold is Horizon Hobbies taught me that lesson to the tune of $57 for their help

OUCH! Hope that included shipping. Still, it fixed the problem and it was far less than a new engine.

I have a problem knowing which question to ask. That's how ignorant Iam. So, I read and re-read this thread, and all notes thereof, and when I still can't figure it out Ipost dumb questions here to give the gurus something to laugh about. Everyone here has been very, very helpful.
One thing I've learned over the years ....if your equipment is not good or in disrepair you're way behind the power curve no matter what you're trying to do. So, when the 80GK didn't want to tune as all of the instructions say it should (or like the other 80 Ihave), Istarted looking at stuff that could be wrong and your suggestion concerning the O ring was the key that started my search to find the "upgrade carb kit". If that kit doesn't come with an intake O ring, I'll find it, buy it, and replace it.

Thanks again,
Garry

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Old 09-25-2012, 06:34 PM
  #23238
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Saito FA-80 saga update:

I re-tuned the 80s (TH) today and it's idling at 2100rpm and peaking at 8400rpm with a 14x6 prop and heli fuel.
I won't tinker with the 80GKagain until after I install the carb kit.

However, when attempting to set the LSN, it would not adjust lean enough to drop rpm when using the pinch test. As per Bill Robinson, when you lean the LSNand pinch the fuel line the rpm should rise slightly so, you continue to adjust in small increments until the rpm drops and then richen the mixture about 1/8 turn. I adjusted the LSN until it was almost all the way in and never reached that point. Of course, there was no transition. It would die as soon as the throttle was advanced so, I adjusted the LSN back near the factory setting and tweaked from there to get a smooth transition. After all of that it's running as stated above.

Now that makes me wonder if the high compression 80's came from the factory with carb problems. Otherwise, why would they make and sell an "upgrade kit" (SAI80144)? Strange

RJ

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Old 09-25-2012, 08:07 PM
  #23239
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I kinda tune my low end a bit funny , but it works. I remove the cowl and set throttle at a kinda fast idle. the carb barrel has a spring behind it so i place a finger behind the throttle arm so it will not be pushed in making the engine stop running ( it closes the throttle barrel and kills the engine if ya don't do this). i set the needle to peak rpm using my good ol' ears and then turn it rich tell i hear it slightly drop rpm. like others on here i run my engines a little rich, Texas heat will lock a motor up in a heart beat. when i make adjustments to the low needle i make em real small , proper low end settings , i have found , to be alot narrower then 2-strokes. I'll put these country ears up against a tach anytime .
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:18 PM
  #23240
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Fred, you can keep checking those small adjustments to the lsn by easing the throttle and listen for the engine to take it. If so, advance it faster and listen. When you get to the point where it seems to stumble or hesitate, you've leaned a bit too lean, so richen it back about as close to 1/16 turn rich as possible. Slowly advance the throttle. If good, advance it normally. This is how you avoid backfires if too lean. You need to fly it around and listen for any indications that you need another 1/16 turn richer.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:27 PM
  #23241
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definatly fly it around, tuning on the ground gets ya in the ballpark, i've learned that from flying gas planes
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:42 PM
  #23242
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Fred,
I used to drive through your fair city, down I 35 on the way to and from work every morning and evening. Iwas living in So. Austin and stationed at Lackland AFB. I did that 180 mile round trip for about a year before I moved to SA. When the weather was good I was on a Goldwing. That was back around 1980.

I found a good Saito reference site. Everyone probably knows about it already but, I'll post the link here just in case. http://saito-engines.info/index.html

I ordered a carb gasket kit and will install them with the upgrade kit. The gasket kit has a lot more stuff in it than comes with the upgrade kit. By the time everything arrives, it will be next week before Iget a chance to run the engine again.

Ialso ordered a 13x6 and a 13x7 Xoar prop. I tried a 13x8 on my 80s and it didn't like it at all. Not enough rpm. It was a desperate attempt to get more power when Ifound performance was way off with the 14x6 prop. The bird took a long time to get off the ground and when it did the climb rate was not good. In fact, Ilanded it after 2 laps around the pattern and put it away for the day.

RJ
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:58 AM
  #23243
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: blw

Fred, you can keep checking those small adjustments to the lsn by easing the throttle and listen for the engine to take it. If so, advance it faster and listen. When you get to the point where it seems to stumble or hesitate, you've leaned a bit too lean, so richen it back about as close to 1/16 turn rich as possible. Slowly advance the throttle. If good, advance it normally. This is how you avoid backfires if too lean. You need to fly it around and listen for any indications that you need another 1/16 turn richer.
Now THAT is as good or better,a description of how to tune a low speed needle as i have read so far and will read it again to make sure i understand it
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:51 AM
  #23244
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I'm gonna run a Master Airscrew 14x6 on my Saito 82 in a 60 size Ugly Stick this weekend at a local fun fly, i'll try to remember in between having a whale of a time, to record the rpms i'm getting out of that prop. Ijust finished and have only one flight on a Seagull Harrier 3d 90 with a Saito 100( Apc 15x4w prop). Just after one flight i can tell that this combination ( thanks to a review on RCuniverse that i followed to a "T") this plane will be one of my favs. If ya don't have one, get one , you will not be disapointed. It's a 3d giant in a small plane. I cannot say enough about the help i have found on RCuniverse, my hats off to you guys.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:51 AM
  #23245
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Fred,
The 14x6 will give you good performance. It pulls very well and gets the bird off the ground in a hurry. Ilike wooden props and have gotten good service out of them but, hit the ground once and you'd better have a spare. I'm stubborn though and will continue to use wood.
I'm very interested in the rpm you'll get from that prop. Are you running a Turboheader on your 82?

RJ
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:45 PM
  #23246
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The muffler is stock. Just got done packing and gettin' ready the planes i'm gonna take , my hanger 9 tach included. I just emailed the flight director of the event and he said i could show up there a day early to get some additional flight time in.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:58 PM
  #23247
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Fred,
Good luck and have fun. Hope all comes home in the same no. of pieces you left home with.

RJ
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:32 PM
  #23248
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Hi Fred,

From my experience, the Saito will handle the 14x6 but (at least in my case) the engine seemed to run hotter than I liked. As a suggestion, you might want to take an assortment of props to experiment with. I usually run 10% fuel, if that's any help to you.

Bob
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:11 AM
  #23249
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Garry, if your .80 has the spraybar like this late 80s example here are some pictures of approximate settings. In the thrid picture I had hoped to capture how clean the bearings are after 23+ years but it didn't turn out so well. With the spraaybar and tapered needle the sweet spot is much narrower than the catseye and sleeve arrangement. At first you may think you wasted your money but be patient, the sweet spot is there.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:03 PM
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Dave,
Thanks for the info and the pictures. I will remove the carb today and install the gasket kit (arrived today)and rebuild/upgrade kit. It's the same engine as the FA-80 Igot from you but, it's black with the gold anodized rocker covers.
Ibelieve the intake pipe is leaking air and new gaskets should help that problem. At high RPM it surges like it's going back and forth from lean to rich to lean, etc. It's been a real bugger to tune, unlike the one I got from you. Once the tuning method got through my thick skull, I was able to get the results you described. However, the GKis not cooperating and Ihope the carb parts fix it.
I'll keep you posted as to the results.

Garry
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