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  1. #23226
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Rowdy should be about two turns out on the hsn? then tune the lsn(you'll notice that's the only abreviations i've used in this post)
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  2. #23227

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Rowdyjoe,

    I agree with OF. Your are way too rich. As the tank gets lower the engine will lean. The TurboHeader provides a bit more tank pressure which limits this effect. Try retuning and things should stabilize.

    Jim
    RC Specialties, LLC, Four Stroke Mufflers and 90 Degree Exhaust Adapters

  3. #23228

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Thanks for the suggestions guys. I set the initial carb settings according to Bill Robinson's method ....LSN adjusted even with the throttle barrel and HSN5 turns out. Did Imis-read that part? 2 turns out on the HSN seems extremely lean to me compared to the method I've been using. I'll give it a try and see what happens.

    The results from the latest tuning attempt were not good. As you recall, Ihad the engine peaking arount 10k but, the idle was a bit high and rough. Irefueled with heli fuel (30% nitro 23% lube) and retweaked the low end until it tried to die and then fattened it up about 1/8 turn. However, when Iwent back to check the high end, it bogged down and died (transition was shot). So, Ifattened up the low end enough to allow it to peak and the best Iwas able to get was around 8600 rpm with about 4 clicks on the HSNtoward lean. Going richer with the HSN brought the rpm down to 6400 before it died. It was running very hot so Ishut it down.
    I'm really frustrated with this thing but, I'll give it another try with the HSN2 turns our instead of 5 turns out. If this doesn't do it, I'll start looking for parts to rebuild the carb.

    RJ

    Rowdyjoe
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  4. #23229

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Sr. Tele ...
    I don't think there's moisture in the fuel as I've used 3 different jugs of it today. Ifinished 2 partial jugs and opened a new one. I'm running the new one now (30% heli fuel) and it's doing the same thing.

    I tried adjusting both needles to those recommended ....i.e. LSN flush with throttle barrel and HSN2 turns out but, no help. I could get it started after adjusting the LSN a bit but, there was no transition and it would not go to full throttle. I'm now beginning to wonder if my LSN and HSN are at fault.

    Any ideas would be helpful.

    Thanks,
    RJ
    Rowdyjoe
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  5. #23230
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    would not a leak on the intake manifold bring in addition air and lean it out, making it run hot and needing to be richened up? if i recall it's just an O-ring. i try to start with the cheapest fix first.

  6. #23231

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Fred,
    Thanks for that tip. It's a possibility. Is there an "carb over-haul kit" for these engines? I'm new to glow engines, especially 4 strokes, and don't have much of a clue about these things. I've read this thread very thoroughly and I wish Icould remember it all but, at my age I'm lucky to remember my own name.
    I'll gather the parts and put in new ones. I also will replace the LSN and HSN to be sure they aren't the problem. Being a used engine Ihave no way of knowing how it was really treated.

    RJ
    Rowdyjoe
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  7. #23232

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Just did a search for a "carb kit"for the FA-80 and it exists in the form of an "upgrade" kit. Horizon was out of them so I did a search for the part no. but, everyone seemed to be out of them except one place in NY called Wholesale Trains. For $8.16 each I bought 2. The kit comes with a couple of "O" rings and a HSN and a couple of other small parts. My order should arrive by Thursday (hopefully).

    RJ
    Rowdyjoe
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  8. #23233
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hey rowdy don't give up man.I know it seems frustrating at times but when you are new to running these engines and you read what people say about that it all seems to make sense until you try it yourself..that's when my problems started.I read it all and thought that it had been understood but lack of experience got in the way of me having perfect engine runs and super maxxed out needle settings..which of course would have given me 500rpm more than anyone else was getting after a while it slowly starts to make more sense to you when you are trying this yourself so please be patient.The sound a well tuned one makes and the pleasure you will get from flying it in a good aeroplane is well worth the effort it takes,and it does take quite a bit of that.Happy sounds to you mate
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  9. #23234
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I find it unusual that 2 different engines would experience the same tuning issues due to mechanical (carburetor) problems.

    That makes me believe that the problem lies in an external factor cause.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  10. #23235
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    What you are doing with saito engines is facinating all due respect but unless i did'nt explain my thoughts well you are on the wrong there friend.
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  11. #23236

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: Old Fart

    What you are doing with saito engines is facinating all due respect but unless i did'nt explain my thoughts well you are on the wrong there friend.
    Hey I am a owner of a Satio 1.50 engine. Can you explain "on the wrong there" I am trying to gather all data and sort it out on my engine.

    Thanks, Capt,n
    I never met a engine I did not like !

  12. #23237

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

    I find it unusual that 2 different engines would experience the same tuning issues due to mechanical (carburetor) problems.

    That makes me believe that the problem lies in an external factor cause.

    I'm sure there is an external problem. It's that empty space between my ears.
    Actually, they aren't having the same problem. Both engines problems are centered around tuning the carb but, the 80s (with TH) is running fine but, Ihad an 800 rpm drop between engine runs which were about a week apart. Still need to work that one out.
    The 80GK (stock muff)is also having tuning issues in that it won't tune at all. Ibelieve I've narrowed the issue down to faulty components so, I'll install the rebuild/upgrade kit in it and hope that solves the problem.

    Ihad trouble tuning the 80s because Iwas totally ignorant of the process and you guys helped me through it. It's running OK, just down on rpm. Ihad hoped to crank it up today to see if I could tweak it back to the original peak rpm but, "the boss" has other plans for me today. Hope to get the opportunity to do that tomorrow.

    RJ

    Rowdyjoe
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  13. #23238
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    while they are cold, make sure you check valve lash.....process of ilimination....... like i said, i do the cheapest things first. The reason i said to check the oring on the manifiold is Horizon Hobbies taught me that lesson to the tune of $57 for their help

  14. #23239

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    Hi Airborn

    Where do you fly in Corning, NY? I am From Watkins Glen.

    Bruce

  15. #23240

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: Fred L

    while they are cold, make sure you check valve lash.....process of ilimination....... like i said, i do the cheapest things first. The reason i said to check the oring on the manifiold is Horizon Hobbies taught me that lesson to the tune of $57 for their help

    OUCH! Hope that included shipping. Still, it fixed the problem and it was far less than a new engine.

    I have a problem knowing which question to ask. That's how ignorant Iam. So, I read and re-read this thread, and all notes thereof, and when I still can't figure it out Ipost dumb questions here to give the gurus something to laugh about. Everyone here has been very, very helpful.
    One thing I've learned over the years ....if your equipment is not good or in disrepair you're way behind the power curve no matter what you're trying to do. So, when the 80GK didn't want to tune as all of the instructions say it should (or like the other 80 Ihave), Istarted looking at stuff that could be wrong and your suggestion concerning the O ring was the key that started my search to find the "upgrade carb kit". If that kit doesn't come with an intake O ring, I'll find it, buy it, and replace it.

    Thanks again,
    Garry

    Rowdyjoe
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  16. #23241

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Saito FA-80 saga update:

    I re-tuned the 80s (TH) today and it's idling at 2100rpm and peaking at 8400rpm with a 14x6 prop and heli fuel.
    I won't tinker with the 80GKagain until after I install the carb kit.

    However, when attempting to set the LSN, it would not adjust lean enough to drop rpm when using the pinch test. As per Bill Robinson, when you lean the LSNand pinch the fuel line the rpm should rise slightly so, you continue to adjust in small increments until the rpm drops and then richen the mixture about 1/8 turn. I adjusted the LSN until it was almost all the way in and never reached that point. Of course, there was no transition. It would die as soon as the throttle was advanced so, I adjusted the LSN back near the factory setting and tweaked from there to get a smooth transition. After all of that it's running as stated above.

    Now that makes me wonder if the high compression 80's came from the factory with carb problems. Otherwise, why would they make and sell an "upgrade kit" (SAI80144)? Strange

    RJ

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  17. #23242
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I kinda tune my low end a bit funny , but it works. I remove the cowl and set throttle at a kinda fast idle. the carb barrel has a spring behind it so i place a finger behind the throttle arm so it will not be pushed in making the engine stop running ( it closes the throttle barrel and kills the engine if ya don't do this). i set the needle to peak rpm using my good ol' ears and then turn it rich tell i hear it slightly drop rpm. like others on here i run my engines a little rich, Texas heat will lock a motor up in a heart beat. when i make adjustments to the low needle i make em real small , proper low end settings , i have found , to be alot narrower then 2-strokes. I'll put these country ears up against a tach anytime .

  18. #23243
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Fred, you can keep checking those small adjustments to the lsn by easing the throttle and listen for the engine to take it. If so, advance it faster and listen. When you get to the point where it seems to stumble or hesitate, you've leaned a bit too lean, so richen it back about as close to 1/16 turn rich as possible. Slowly advance the throttle. If good, advance it normally. This is how you avoid backfires if too lean. You need to fly it around and listen for any indications that you need another 1/16 turn richer.
    The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

    "It's a new day for Auburn" - Gus Malzahn

  19. #23244
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    definatly fly it around, tuning on the ground gets ya in the ballpark, i've learned that from flying gas planes

  20. #23245

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Fred,
    I used to drive through your fair city, down I 35 on the way to and from work every morning and evening. Iwas living in So. Austin and stationed at Lackland AFB. I did that 180 mile round trip for about a year before I moved to SA. When the weather was good I was on a Goldwing. That was back around 1980.

    I found a good Saito reference site. Everyone probably knows about it already but, I'll post the link here just in case. http://saito-engines.info/index.html

    I ordered a carb gasket kit and will install them with the upgrade kit. The gasket kit has a lot more stuff in it than comes with the upgrade kit. By the time everything arrives, it will be next week before Iget a chance to run the engine again.

    Ialso ordered a 13x6 and a 13x7 Xoar prop. I tried a 13x8 on my 80s and it didn't like it at all. Not enough rpm. It was a desperate attempt to get more power when Ifound performance was way off with the 14x6 prop. The bird took a long time to get off the ground and when it did the climb rate was not good. In fact, Ilanded it after 2 laps around the pattern and put it away for the day.

    RJ
    Rowdyjoe
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  21. #23246
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: blw

    Fred, you can keep checking those small adjustments to the lsn by easing the throttle and listen for the engine to take it. If so, advance it faster and listen. When you get to the point where it seems to stumble or hesitate, you've leaned a bit too lean, so richen it back about as close to 1/16 turn rich as possible. Slowly advance the throttle. If good, advance it normally. This is how you avoid backfires if too lean. You need to fly it around and listen for any indications that you need another 1/16 turn richer.
    Now THAT is as good or better,a description of how to tune a low speed needle as i have read so far and will read it again to make sure i understand it
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  22. #23247
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I'm gonna run a Master Airscrew 14x6 on my Saito 82 in a 60 size Ugly Stick this weekend at a local fun fly, i'll try to remember in between having a whale of a time, to record the rpms i'm getting out of that prop. Ijust finished and have only one flight on a Seagull Harrier 3d 90 with a Saito 100( Apc 15x4w prop). Just after one flight i can tell that this combination ( thanks to a review on RCuniverse that i followed to a "T") this plane will be one of my favs. If ya don't have one, get one , you will not be disapointed. It's a 3d giant in a small plane. I cannot say enough about the help i have found on RCuniverse, my hats off to you guys.

  23. #23248

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Fred,
    The 14x6 will give you good performance. It pulls very well and gets the bird off the ground in a hurry. Ilike wooden props and have gotten good service out of them but, hit the ground once and you'd better have a spare. I'm stubborn though and will continue to use wood.
    I'm very interested in the rpm you'll get from that prop. Are you running a Turboheader on your 82?

    RJ
    Rowdyjoe
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  24. #23249
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    The muffler is stock. Just got done packing and gettin' ready the planes i'm gonna take , my hanger 9 tach included. I just emailed the flight director of the event and he said i could show up there a day early to get some additional flight time in.

  25. #23250

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Fred,
    Good luck and have fun. Hope all comes home in the same no. of pieces you left home with.

    RJ
    Rowdyjoe
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