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  1. #23326

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I ordered a gasket kit and a few other small items from Advantage Hobby. They had everything I needed at a better price than Horizon and they are Saito parts ...not after-market. I've called my experienced friend who has rebuilt many, many glow engines and he agreed to help me with my FA-80GK. We'll do the deed as soon as the parts arrive.

    OOOPs ....almost forgot to mention the results of the carb kit installation. The engine is running much better now but, still haven't found the sweet spot. Ihaven't been able to get the idle below 2400 and the max rpm is around 9100 with a 13x6 prop. However, it's not running a steady rpm at full throttle. It will vary by as much as 200 to 300 rpm when peaked. Before installing the kit, I saw as much as 10k rpm at full throttle with the same size prop.
    Any ideas or opinions on what may be causing this variation at full throttle?
    I'm getting a good transition now where I couldn't get one at all before. I need to get the low end and high end tuned now.

    Rowdyjoe
    Saito 783
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  2. #23327
    SrTelemaster150's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: JNorton

    I believe SS is softer than normal steels. Just my two cents.
    John


    ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

    Stainless is harder but, more brittle than other steel alloys.Ā* IĀ*went with stainless to reduce the chance of corrosion.Ā*


    JNorton was right. SS is softer than carbon steel, but it is tougher. It resists corrosion & in rifle barrels, it also resists errosion in the throat from hot gasses. It can also be harder to machine.

    High carbon steel is harder & more brittle than SS. I much prefer high carbon steel to SS if knife blades. SS is harder to get a good edge on & it doesn't stay sharp as long . When corrosion is an issue, like razor blades, SS cutting edges last longer.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  3. #23328

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hello all, I’m new to forum. However, I've read a ton of posts before becoming a member and there seems to be a constant request for test results. This is what I've got so far on My Saito 100.
    A little history first, I started as a glow guy then left the hobby for several years before getting back into it because the advances in battery and brushless motors intrigued me. Then I heard that sweet sound of a four stroke glow motor. I'm never going back to electric or 2 stroke. Ok, Here are my results:

    After Very good break in:
    First set up (Stock muffler and 15%n,17%O Fuel)
    MAS sport prop 14x8
    temp. 85
    alt. 650ft
    Absolute peak: 10450 RPM
    Richened to: 10200 RPM
    Idle: 1900 RPM
    static thrust: Did not measure
    throttle response: idle to full- about 1 second

    Second set up (Turbo Header muffler, EXRA550 onboard glow driver set to come on below 25% throttle and Fuel 30%N,23%O)
    Motor inverted.
    MAS sport prop 15x6
    temp. 75
    alt. 650ft
    Absolute peak: 10700 RPM
    Richened to: 10450 RPM
    Idle: 1600 RPM
    static thrust: 15pounds
    throttle response: idle to full- about less than a half second ( the response in the mid ranges from 25%-75% is absolutely amazing)


    NOTE 1: In both cases i ran the props before and after balancing and in both cases I had close to a 150 rpm increase.
    NOTE 2: The lower idle in the second setup is mostly due to the onboard glow driver but the 30% fuel also helps.
    NOTE 3: I haven’t done any tests yet on the biggest cause of increase in RPM on the top but I bet its half fuel and half after market muffler.
    NOTE 4: This engine runs very cool when using 30%N Fuel
    LAST NOTE: I have learned so much from so many in this forum. Thanks for sharing.

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  4. #23329

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    i purchased a turbo header prop for my saito fa 125, glow, and it stripped the threads on the crankcase.
    AMA # 982277
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  5. #23330

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

    Just curious, I haven't heard of anyone ordering from RC Bearings lately. Aren't these FA 80 prices considerably cheaper?

    http://www.rcbearings.com/saito-80-bearings/ Ask for Paul

    Thanks, Ernie
    Yes, I have been very busy lately. Our business has more than doubled this year! We must be doing something right!

    Stainless steel bearings are hardened to the same range as bearing steel. so wear really isn't an issue.

    My standard bearings are what everyone else calls high speed. We use the high end Japanese plastic retainers for most of them and we also now have European made SKF Explorer bearings available for most engines. SKF prices are about the same as their no-name OEM bearings.
    Steel and Ceramic bearings for model engines
    5% discount for RCU members. Code: rcu

  6. #23331

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I would say that improper fitting can damage a good bearing faster than a poor quality bearing will go bad.
    Steel and Ceramic bearings for model engines
    5% discount for RCU members. Code: rcu

  7. #23332

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

    Stainless is harder but, more brittle than other steel alloys.Ā* IĀ*went with stainless to reduce the chance of corrosion.Ā*


    Bearing stainless (440C) is hardened to the same range as bearing steel and is very ductile compared to high carbon steels.
    Steel and Ceramic bearings for model engines
    5% discount for RCU members. Code: rcu

  8. #23333

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

    ORIGINAL: JNorton

    I believe SS is softer than normal steels. Just my two cents.
    John


    ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

    Stainless is harder but, more brittle than other steel alloys.Ā* IĀ*went with stainless to reduce the chance of corrosion.Ā*


    JNorton was right. SS is softer than carbon steel, but it is tougher. It resists corrosion & in rifle barrels, it also resists errosion in the throat from hot gasses. It can also be harder to machine.

    High carbon steel is harder & more brittle than SS. I much prefer high carbon steel to SS if knife blades. SS is harder to get a good edge on & it doesn't stay sharp as long . When corrosion is an issue, like razor blades, SS cutting edges last longer.
    The stainless used in knife blades is a very different type than used in bearings.
    Steel and Ceramic bearings for model engines
    5% discount for RCU members. Code: rcu

  9. #23334
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    >>> i purchased a turbo header prop for my saito fa 125, glow, and it stripped the threads on the crankcase. >>>

    Turbo header "prop" or muffler? Stripped threads on the crankcase or in the head?

    Previous threads on the fitting of new bearings: do you guys mean proper installation, getting them in straight, no galling, or do you mean actual tightness of fit as they sit in the crankcase? If they are too tight how do you correct that?

    Thanks, Ernie

  10. #23335
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: orthobird

    i purchased a turbo header prop for my saito fa 125, glow, and it stripped the threads on the crankcase.Ā*
    Turbo header prop? Crankcase threads stripped?

    If you're referring to a Turbo header muffler stripping head exhaust threads, I'd say it was improper installation. I have a few and never encountered any problems. Just make sure that you thread them on carefully, that they are tight, not overly, or not loose either. You can't crank them down because you are dealing with aluminum.
    Bob
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  11. #23336
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    "If they are too tight how do you correct that?"

    With a 5 lb. sledge.

    Bob
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    Fleet Brotherhood #1, Club Saito #800

  12. #23337

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I bow to the knowledge of the metalurgists/experts on the issue of stainless steel hardness vs. carbon steel. I speak from my 22 yrs experience in the aircraft mfg. industry but, not as an engineer. We made BIG airplanes (C-17s, 747s, 767s, 757s, 777s, 787s, Gulfstream IV & V wings, B-2s) and some smaller ones ....FA-18 A, B, C, & E, F-5, T-38, and some UAVs. Also made some rotary wing aircraft you may have heard of like the Blackhawk.

    I have to disagree concerning stainless firearms barrels and chambers. I've had a few and still have one. Chrome is the cure for chamber and barrel errosion and better functioning. Stainless is more pourous, traps more crud, and requires more thorough cleaning IMO. However, it is better for corrosion prevention but, not as accurate as a chrome lined bore and chamber. On this issue I have 20 yrs experience as a military firearms specialist.

    RJ
    Rowdyjoe
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  13. #23338
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Thanks for clearing the air rc
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  14. #23339

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ANybody got an intake manifold for an older Saito 180? 
    The nut / ferrel on Mine broke away from the cast aluminum pipe. J-B weld might hold it. Horizon has 'em on back order. 
    Best Regards
    Ed

  15. #23340

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    You might try Advantage Hobby. Copy the part no. from Horizon and paste it in the Advatange site search engine.

    RJ
    Rowdyjoe
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  16. #23341

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I am about to install a perry V-30 fuel pump with my sa100. I have seen the diagram for installing the perry with with saito engines. My questions is the my tee does not have 3 straight legs, but instead the tee- leg going up into the perry pump has has bend that turns it to left, and folks think that this bend will interfere wtih the performance of the perry pump?
    airborne crazy

  17. #23342
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: RC-Bearings


    ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

    ORIGINAL: JNorton

    I believe SS is softer than normal steels. Just my two cents.
    John


    ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe

    Stainless is harder but, more brittle than other steel alloys.Ā* IĀ*went with stainless to reduce the chance of corrosion.Ā*


    JNorton was right. SS is softer than carbon steel, but it is tougher. It resists corrosion & in rifle barrels, it also resists errosion in the throat from hot gasses. It can also be harder to machine.

    High carbon steel is harder & more brittle than SS. I much prefer high carbon steel to SS if knife blades. SS is harder to get a good edge on & it doesn't stay sharp as long . When corrosion is an issue, like razor blades, SS cutting edges last longer.
    The stainless used in knife blades is a very different type than used in bearings.

    Yes the knife alloys would be different. I never meant to imply that they were similar.

    However, your previous post tends to prove the softer (more ductile) nature of SS over high carbon even when treated to the same (Rocwwell?) hardness.


    ORIGINAL: RC-Bearings

    Bearing stainless (440C) is hardened to the same range as bearing steel and is very ductile compared to high carbon steels.
    440 stanless is used in rifle barrels & its more ductile nature over 4140 makes for a better (heat errosion) wear properties, but the strength of the 4140 CM steel is actually stronger as far as bursting due to factors that might lead to catasrophic failure.

    Again, not a direct comparison to SS use in bearings, but it still proves that SS is not always "stronger".

    I don't believe the steel in rifle barrels is heat treated to enhance hardness/toughness. (unlike receivers & bolts, etc) The heat of hot propellant gases soon negate any advantages of heat treating. They are treated for stress releif however.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  18. #23343
    SrTelemaster150's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: rowdyjoe


    I have to disagree concerning stainless firearms barrels and chambers.Ā* I've had a few and still have one.Ā* Chrome is the cure for chamber and barrel errosion and better functioning.Ā* Stainless is more pourous, traps more crud, and requires more thorough cleaning IMO.Ā* However, it is better for corrosion prevention but, not as accurate as a chrome lined bore and chamber.Ā* On this issue I have 20 yrs experience as a military firearms specialist.

    RJ
    I too prefer CM steel barrels, but many benchrest shooters swear by SS. They assert that the SS barrels last longer (accuracy) in their particular application.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  19. #23344
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    What do you Saito 100 owners think of them? A real sweetheart like other Saito's such as the 82? The reason I asked is I am super happy with my 82 and 125 and was thinking of picking up a 100 for use on the 60-90 size profile planes. Reading the reviews most are positive but some say the 100 has excessive vibration (at idle I think) Immediately I thought, yeah learn how to tune them.

    Thanks, Ernie

  20. #23345
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Less vibration than the .82 and probably the 125 too.
    Saito Club Member #578
    P-40 Brotherhood #62

  21. #23346
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I have two. They are my preferred. Starts w one flip, awesome iddle and no they don't vibrate
    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  22. #23347
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Thanks guys. Looks like Saito is offering most everything in a gas version now. Maybe I'm behind the times but I'm still thinking that on the 82 or 100 size and real light profile planes that I don't want the weight of the ignition system. What do you guys think?

    Thanks, Ernie

  23. #23348

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hey JonC:

    You sure do not need 30% Nitro glow fuel to make your Saito 100 run well !   10% is more than adequate.  Have been mixing my glow fuel for many years.   I f you don't care about the cost of 30% fuel then by all means burn it up.   I mix 10% Nitro fuel for less than $9 / gallon.   My fuel has 10% Nitro, 20% oil (10% castor oil and 10% Klotz Techniplate).   The castor oil is an excellent lubricant but requires that you use some automatic tramsmission oil as after run lubricant and preservative if the engine is not going to be run the next few days.   Nitromethane is the most expensive component to date, costing $40/ gal.  There are several synthetic oil's available that will work.   There are alot of fellows that use as little as 15% oil.   My Saito's and HP 49's have been running for 25 years now on 20% oil and the cylinders are bright and shinny showing no signs of wear.  I hear alot of "boo-hoos" because of the cost of glow fuel sometimes $16~$20 /gallon.  For that reason there has been a big switch to electric.  I have a few electrics but they just aren't the same.   Too quiet!  No motor sound !!    Four strokes sound great and are easy on fuel compaired to 2-cycle motors.   Many of the guys in our area clubs have gone to gas!  Gas motors perform well and are relatively inexpensive to operate.   I do not burn ethanol laced pump gasoline in my gas motors.  I use aviation fuel and good chain saw oil.   AV gas has tetraethyl lead in and preservatives in it that will not screw up your carburator.   At $5.50 a gallon, it is still the best pick for a good running 2-cycle gas engine.  On of these days I may try a FG series Saito 4 stroke that runs on gasoline/oil mix and has an ignition system.   Maybe when I grow up!! 

  24. #23349
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

    Thanks guys. Looks like Saito is offering most everything in a gas version now. Maybe I'm behind the times but I'm still thinking that on the 82 or 100 size and real light profile planes that I don't want the weight of the ignition system. What do you guys think?

    Thanks, Ernie

    The weight of the ignition system will be offset by the reduced fuel requirements.

    That being said, it will be cheaper & more reliable to just buy an FA version & convert W/a C&H conversion. Much better, easier to deal with system.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  25. #23350
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    How do you install the magnet in the prop hub? Purchase that along with the ignition?


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