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  1. #23476
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Doug, here is a thread that started in 2005, it has a bunch of numbers for you to crunch and consider.

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2631988/tm.htm
    Farmall 240 the final issue of the Farmall C, Super C, 200, 230 series.
    122 Cu. In. 22 hp. A small tractor that would do big work due to its 10x36 inch rear tires.

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  2. #23477
    lopflyers's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    No, I didn't change the nitro percent, this happened from one flight to the next. Bummm started with one flip, nice iddle perfect. 15 mins later don't want to start, I forced it with the electric starter and it fired but when going to iddle it hesitates and quits. Since I wanted to fly I adjusted the subtrim for the throttle and flew her hot.
    That is why I don't think is either needle. The theory of the little screw in the carburetor barrel makes more sence to me
    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  3. #23478
    Cougar429's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    It would help to know what you mean by "at idle it makes a weird noise and dies" as this definitely could point to a mechanical problem within the engine. You could have a problem with the valvetrain or even something loose that would affect mixture. If you rotate the prop slowly by hand how does it feel?

    One other thing to check would be to see if you have partially or fully blocked the carb fuel inlet or feed system with a bit of crud, (the reason a filter is such a good idea). If you have access to the fuel feed line you can check this by blowing into the carb inlet while working the throttle. Even at idle there should be some indication of flow into the carb.

    You also did not mention if the behavior changed if you left the glow heat on at idle. If the glow plug is healthy the reaction when power is removed can tell a lot about mixture.
    Club Saito Member # 787
    FA91, 100, 2 X 125a, 150

  4. #23479
    lopflyers's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    1. What I meant by the sound is that it doesn't die suddenly, it takes a couple of seconds.
    2. I didn't test it with the glow plug ignitor still in because at mid range- FOT is good.
    3. The prop feels with excellent compression.

    Thx for the suggestion of checking for crud. I actually fly on a grass field and yesterday it was wet.
    I'm at work.[:@] But I will check all these over the wknd
    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  5. #23480
    Moderator blw's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Lopflyer,

    Keeping in mind what Hobbsy suggested, not all backfires are loud. They can be a small cough, or a little wheeze that you can barely hear. My 125 had one, and I heard it and the guy holding the plane didn't. It still loosened the prop nut.
    The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

    "It doesn't take but one Auburn man to be a majority" -Coach Pat Dye

  6. #23481
    jkr_1100's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: blw

    Lopflyer,

    Keeping in mind what Hobbsy suggested, not all backfires are loud. They can be a small cough, or a little wheeze that you can barely hear. My 125 had one, and I heard it and the guy holding the plane didn't. It still loosened the prop nut.

    Perhaps the use of non Saito brand High speed needle valve extensions can cause tuning issues? for $0.99 perhaps they use an alloy that promotes better tuning?



    Edited to say this. Hobbsy be careful please. notice that the "o" engines are not included in the compatibility list on the front of the package. do not attempt to use one of these on the 150S
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    AMA 414878 - Cub brotherhood - Tiger Club #1
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  7. #23482
    SrTelemaster150's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: jkr_1100

    ORIGINAL: blw

    Lopflyer,

    Keeping in mind what Hobbsy suggested, not all backfires are loud. They can be a small cough, or a little wheeze that you can barely hear. My 125 had one, and I heard it and the guy holding the plane didn't. It still loosened the prop nut.

    Perhaps the use of non Saito brand High speed needle valve extensions can cause tuning issues? for $0.99 perhaps they use an alloy that promotes better tuning?



    Edited to say this. Hobbsy be careful please. notice that the ''o'' engines are not included in the compatibility list on the front of the package. do not attempt to use one of these on the 150S
    I use old 4-40 control rod cut-offs for my needle valve extensions.

    Not sure what the alloy is but it must be "compatible" for the 150, 180 300T & 91S.. Gee, I hope my 200Ti doesn't have an alloy issue.
    Club Saito #785 - FA91S, FA150, FA180, FA180HC/BBC, FA200TI, FA300TTDP: All with CH Ignitions CDI/Glow fuel
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  8. #23483
    Moderator blw's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I'm not sleeping tonight until I check mine.

    Does size matter?
    The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

    "It doesn't take but one Auburn man to be a majority" -Coach Pat Dye

  9. #23484
    lopflyers's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Well I already checked and mine are not Saito
    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  10. #23485
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I've done it all these ways in one engine or the other.

    What ever is laying around that fits?
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  11. #23486
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Phew! well thats it.Just spent an hour in the shed with an oxy torch re-tempering all of my saito main needles in-situ to save me some time.Maybe they won't bend so easy now
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  12. #23487
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    If I have a resonant needle valve extension, I change the length. Usually the shorter the better for preventing resonance.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  13. #23488
    Moderator blw's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Bristo (or Bristol) wrenches solve that, Jim. I've used them for years. The splines do the trick, but I'm not into the math behind it.

    The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

    "It doesn't take but one Auburn man to be a majority" -Coach Pat Dye

  14. #23489
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Me neither but same as fluting rifle barrels i think.
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  15. #23490

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !



    Well I am new to the club. I just bought my first Saito. It is a FA-56GK, it will start off on a 56" P51-D Midwest kit that is in the build state right now.
    I will be breaking the motor in later this week as now it is in the plane so I may fit all of the front end wood work around it.
    I hope to have good luck and many happy flights as I have heard all good news about these motors.

    Handiman
    DX8 / AR8000\'\'s with Telemetry
    Spitfire #2 - electric
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    P51-D - Saito FA-56GK

  16. #23491
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    You may want to make up a temporary wooden mount for the engine and bench run it initially.They are set very rich for break in and vibrate lots for the first couple of tankfulls.
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  17. #23492
    jkr_1100's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: Old Fart

    You may want to make up a temporary wooden mount for the engine and bench run it initially.They are set very rich for break in and vibrate lots for the first couple of tankfulls.

    I threw a wrench in the works with my jokes about the Saito full throttle needle extension

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFeO...1&feature=plcp

    Here is the video from the camera setup shown. Saito power of course. FYI this camera does a "better" job with the saito sound, at least better than my Blackberry.

    Cheers to all. Welcome to spring OF?

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    AMA 414878 - Cub brotherhood - Tiger Club #1
    Club Saito #789 - 50,91,125,125,150S,180

  18. #23493
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hi mate awesome rudder work it's nice to see an aeroplane flown well.Did a good job lining the other pilots up who were flying too the engine sounds well tuned,is it the audio or is it just slightly lean on top end?? thanks for the link i enjoyed watching it mate
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  19. #23494

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !



    Old Fart, Thanks for the advise.
    I had planned on it as it seems it would be much easier, I want the least number of issues atthe field and I just plain like doing it.
    This is my first 4 stoke airplane motor so I hope to learn as much as possible at the bench on the tuning.
    Thanks

    Handiman
    DX8 / AR8000\'\'s with Telemetry
    Spitfire #2 - electric
    SU-26 - electric
    P51-D - Saito FA-56GK

  20. #23495
    jkr_1100's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: Old Fart

    Hi mate awesome rudder work it's nice to see an aeroplane flown well.Did a good job lining the other pilots up who were flying too the engine sounds well tuned,is it the audio or is it just slightly lean on top end?? thanks for the link i enjoyed watching it mate


    OF, I need to take a picture for you and the gang to look at. the LSN looks like its way rich. but she runs like a top. swiss watch (Patek Phillip) or sewing machine.

    broke Firewall on the tiger 2 with the saito 125 today. funny somehow i didn't think it would happen to me.


    cheers.
    AMA 414878 - Cub brotherhood - Tiger Club #1
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  21. #23496
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Okay, to double check that LS needle that "looks" too rich, pinch the fuel line while it's idling. It should just barely speed up before wanting to die. If it speeds up quite a bit and runs a lot smoother, then you're still too fat on the bottom end.

  22. #23497
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hi mate the lsn needle looks spot on from what i saw.Know what you mean about the tiger,ditched my favourite deccy a month ago,still sobbing into my beer
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  23. #23498

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

    Okay, to double check that LS needle that "looks" too rich, pinch the fuel line while it's idling. It should just barely speed up before wanting to die. If it speeds up quite a bit and runs a lot smoother, then you're still too fat on the bottom end.
    May work good for 2 stroke engines...4 stroke engines need to be more rich on Idle mix. I was one of the first RC fan,s to tune one in West Mich many years ago. I have tunned many engines since for people. Have had some experience. Capt,n
    I never met a engine I did not like !

  24. #23499
    Ernie Misner's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Thanks for sharing your wisdom John. There's so much to be learned from those who have worked in the industry. He's absolutely correct that a 4-stroke needs to be tuned slightly richer on the bottom end than a 2-stroke. A 2-stroke has a bit of fuel that puddles in the crankcase that helps with acceleration off of idle that a 4-stroke does not have. If the 4-stroke is way rich on the LS needle though, a pinch of the fuel line will let you know. You can go leaner and leaner on the LS neeedle until the 4-stroke ticks over like a sewing maching, but then it will not take the throttle on acceleration. So it needs to be richened up just slightly, will not idle quite as smoothly as it did, but will not fall flat and die. It's a compromise. When you're right on the edge of being too lean, a change of weather will let you know then you have to richen up slghtly again.

    Ernie Misner

  25. #23500

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    RE: [Deleted]


    ORIGINAL: Cougar429

    N1EDM, the rear should be a 6902 OPEN bearing, not rubber sealed or shielded. That way it will get lube and allow the space between the bearings to breath, (also lubing the cam and valvetrain). If the engine case vent is mounted below the cam then you need to equalize pressure to that area anyway.

    The front is listed as an R6-2RS, which is rubber sealed, but I recommend removing the inner seal to allow it also to get lube. The seals pop out easily with a straight pin under the outer edge.

    From my own experience shielded or sealed bearings are wider than non-sealed or shielded. If you opt for one not open you will find the crank does not fit correctly.
    You should not remove the inner seal on the front bearing as that will allow pressure to blow out the front seal. Sealed bearings come with high quality grease in them so that no further lube is needed.
    Steel and Ceramic bearings for model engines
    5% discount for RCU members. Code: rcu


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