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  1. #23601
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    If you have already mounted the engine(325?) in an airframe i'd leave it there almost no vibration.Drop about 3mils of fuel down the primer tube every time you flick it to start even from cold.
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  2. #23602

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Yes, it has a black plastic back plate. How do Itell if it is an "old" 72? This was purchased at the LHS 2 (not more than 3) years ago.

    Horizon lists' this part number for an 82. Correct?
    Item: SAI82B17

    I believe I read that this is the same part.

    I am interested in the carb upgrade kit:

    Upgrade Carburetor Rebuild Kit: FA-72

    By: Saito Engines
    Item: SAI72144

    Is the upgrade kit worth it? What's the difference?

    And, will I need to put a gasket between the new back plate the body?

    Thank you all for the information. It truely is invaluable.


  3. #23603
    mike early's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    On the 72, the plastic back plate means it's the older version.
    The new one is the 72B. (SAIE072B)
    Yeah, same backplate for the 72 and the 82.


    ORIGINAL: tarcure


    I am interested in the carb upgrade kit:

    Upgrade Carburetor Rebuild Kit: FA-72

    By: Saito Engines
    Item: SAI72144

    Is the upgrade kit worth it? What's the difference?

    And, will I need to put a gasket between the new back plate the body?

    Thank you all for the information. It truely is invaluable.

    I never saw that Carb Upgrade before. I wonder if it's new.
    It does have a helpful diagram with it:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	3 
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ID:	1818113  
    Saito Club Member #578
    P-40 Brotherhood #62

  4. #23604
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    If you still have the plastic back plate, you also want to change to the aluminum back plate and carb mounting screws from a Saito 91 or you will continue to have trouble.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
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    Original AMA #31261

  5. #23605
    mike early's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I found this post in 2006:
    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4528671
    We cannot really call it new, I guess...

    If the upgrade was made before 2006, and the engine was bought 3 years ago, can we assume the engine came with the "upgrade"?
    Saito Club Member #578
    P-40 Brotherhood #62

  6. #23606

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Gee a guy goes awa for a few days and catching up on the postings becomes a real chore.  But all good stuff. A few comments
    1/ I always use an electric starter on ALL my engines, a finger broken in three places and 2 fingers with prop cuts about 2 inches long have yet again educated me re the virtues of keeping fingers out of props (A saito 65 was the culprit)
    2/ Using electric starters on LeRoys revenge (Cox 049) is interesting cause the motor once fired up spins faster than the starter
    3/ At the O/T Nationals next year in OZ (at Cootamundra in October Old Fart) I expect to see a great increase in Saitos on the field, there is a lot of interest in the 56 / 62 combinations and 65's have become scarce so more valuable
    4/ Lastly in discussing 4 strokes no body talks about YS, the 53 and 63 (no longer produced) were great engines so much so that rumours our of Japan would indicate that Saito is looking to fill that void.  If so I for one would be in "hog heaven"
    More later guys, got to get back to test bed model I am building.  Rainy season is trying to get here so must get the project finished ASAP  
    Club Saito member 710

  7. #23607
    Moderator blw's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Mike,

    If you have to use the plastic backplate there are a few things that decrease or eliminate the problem. First, use flat washers under the screws to spread the load. The plastic compresses and deforms quite a bit. Next, use thread locker in the crankcase screw threads. And, put a good bead of rtv under and around the metal washer at the manifold intake.

    Mine ran great with those 'fixes'.
    The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

    "It's a new day for Auburn" - Gus Malzahn

  8. #23608
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    High temp, red RTV would probably be best.

  9. #23609

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    High temp (red ) RTV or SQ 32 (also known as Hylomar) is also good.  The later was developed by Rolls Royce as a case sealent for the Dart engine compressor to turbine split.  Aslo very good on fuel lines (disolves in any known fuel that we use) and I used it on head gaskets (and rocker cover gaskets) on heaps of cars over the years.
    Club Saito member 710

  10. #23610

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Thank you all for the input. Simply fantastic. I am going to order the metal back plate tomorrow. But, a few questions remain.
    1. Does the carb upgrade kit help? What's different from stock?
    2. Do I need a gasket with the metal plate?
    3. Previous post says to replace carb screws with those from a 92 - why?

    Again, thank you all.

  11. #23611
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    blw, your recommendation for Loctite on any fasteners into metal components is good, but I have a couple of concerns when the casting is alloy.

    First is to use a low strength as anything more aggressive is not necessary and can tend to damage the threads upon removal. On that note, unless the threads are cleaned out with a tap before reinstallation the remaining old Loctite can cause more problems.

    Secondly, Loctite and plastic do not mix, so unless there is some way to prevent the two coming together during installation, the disadvantages may outweigh using it in the first place.

    I have been rebuilding and resurrecting engines for a LONG time now and rarely ever find the need for thread lock. I only had the exhaust adapter come loose once on my 91, and once I shaved a wrench to provide better access when tightening it never happened again.

    On that note, one thing I found with engines I grab was that in some cases it was thought Loctite a substitute for worn or partially stripped threads. This is not a good, long-term solution. In those cases I would look at moving to the next larger fastener, even if standard size. If done properly it would return the fastener to full strength.
    Club Saito Member # 787
    FA91, 100, 2 X 125a, 150

  12. #23612
    Moderator blw's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Some Saitos ship with a thread lock of some kind. 2 new style plastic backplates deformed quickly for me. The screws loosened in mere minutes every time. I cleaned the screws and threads and swabbed the crankcase threads with epoxy, and let it dry. That ended problems for good. I know what you mean about resorting to other ways first. I rarely use anything.
    The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

    "It's a new day for Auburn" - Gus Malzahn

  13. #23613
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I don't think there is a gasket for the Saito backplates. You may get some oil slowly weeping out in some areas after you use lots of ARO but it doesn't hurt anything. The crankcase is vented anyway which wouldn't be good at all on a 2-stroke. Note that your 2 carb screws will have to be a different type from what is used on the plastic back plate, a metric thread like was mentioned earlier.

  14. #23614

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: tarcure

    *Thank you all for the input. Simply fantastic. I am going to order the metal back plate tomorrow. But, a few questions remain.
    1. Does the carb upgrade kit help? What's different from stock?
    2. Do I need a gasket with the metal plate?
    3. Previous post says to replace carb screws with those from a 92 - why?

    Again, thank you all.
    1.I think the carb screws. 2. yes and u can make your own if you want or use high temp silicon ( i havent done this but think it would be o.k as long as the back plate dosent hit on anything eg the conrod . Perhaps a gaskit would be best now that I think of it .) . 3. The original screws have a thread that screws into plastic instead of metal threads . Cheers the pope

  15. #23615

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

    I don't think there is a gasket for the Saito backplates. You may get some oil slowly weeping out in some areas after you use lots of ARO but it doesn't hurt anything. The crankcase is vented anyway which wouldn't be good at all on a 2-stroke. Note that your 2 carb screws will have to be a different type from what is used on the plastic back plate, a metric thread like was mentioned earlier.
    Hi Ernie the 82b has a gasket on the backplate but not the a version . No gasket on the jugs . Cheers the pope

  16. #23616
    mike early's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Did we agree that the Carb Upgrade Kit is for engines made more than 7 years ago?
    Saito Club Member #578
    P-40 Brotherhood #62

  17. #23617
    mike early's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I am getting ready to change bearings on a Saito 100Twin that has been sitting for a few years.
    I have changed lots of bearings on single cylinder Saitos.

    Any tips or things to look out for on my first twin surgery?
    Saito Club Member #578
    P-40 Brotherhood #62

  18. #23618
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Saito gents, I am thinking of doing a comparo between the Saito .62 and a new Saito .65, both are just past broken in. There is a difference in the recommended props, the .62s recommended prop is a 13x6 APC at 9,900 and the .65s recommended prop is an 11x7.75", no specified rpm. As to whether this is worth doing is up in the air. Maybe somone is interested how well the .62 replaces the .65. I'm gonna find out with stock exhaust and with a TurboHeader.
    Case 570 Diesel, 188.4 Cu. In. HP==36 @ 1,900 RPM, CR 17.5 to 1. Bore==3.8125, Stroke==4.125

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  19. #23619
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hobbsy,

    I would be interested in what you find out in terms of power. I have a Saito 65 on a Kyosho P-40. I like it very much but it is a heavier design. My understanding is the 62 has the same power but much lighter.
    No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short!

    Ultrasport Brotherhood #45, P-51 Brotherhood #34, P-40 Brotherhood #35, Saito Club member #799, Spitfire Brotherhood #173, Glow head #18

  20. #23620

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

    Saito gents, I am thing of doing a comparo between the Saito .62 and a new Saito .65, both are just past broken in. There is a difference in the recommended props, the .62s recommended prop is a 13x6 APC at 9,900 and the .65s recommended prop is an 11x7.75'', no specified rpm. As to whether this is worth doing is up in the air. Maybe somone is interested how well the .62 replaces the .65. I'm gonna find out with stock exhaust and with a TurboHeader.
    The .62 is more oversquare (higher bore/stroke ratio) than the .65 so you'd expect it to produce its max HP at higher RPM, hence less pitch for some applications. Doesn't look like one is a direct replacement for the other. Here's a Saito small-medium engine manual, containing all the dope: http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/SAIT...der_Manual.pdf

    CR
    Charley
    ccrobins@ktc.com

  21. #23621
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    OK, I should have predicted these results, that way folks would think I am a deviner of sorts.

    Fuel for both engines===WildCat 15% Premium Extra
    Prop for both============= APC 13x6


    Saito .65/stock muffler, rpm====9,800, rpm/TurboHeader==10,000
    Saito .62/stock muffler, rpm====9,780, rpm/TurboHeader===9,990

    My assumption is that Horizon got their 9,900 rpm for the .62 using 30% fuel, that seems to be their standard.

    The .65 wore an Enya A-3 plug
    The .62 wore a Fox Miracle
    Case 570 Diesel, 188.4 Cu. In. HP==36 @ 1,900 RPM, CR 17.5 to 1. Bore==3.8125, Stroke==4.125

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  22. #23622
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Any word on parts availablity? I see several parts Ineed are backordered, maybe problems at the factory? They did have a major event in that country after all.
    Club Saito # 677-Team Boca Bearings-Star Collectibles Muscatine-Glowhead Brotherhood #19

  23. #23623
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    You need to get on the band wagon with those back ordered parts.

    Horizon doesn't figure their economic order quantities realistically.

    You could possibly see the part remain on back order through several cycles.

    For people who are on the back order list get their parts in the sequence purchased. Often the supply is depleated before all the back orders are filled.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  24. #23624
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    The Saito 62 is my favorite engine. I run a 13 X 6 APC prop.

    I have two Golden Knights. One is still new in box. The one I use all the time was purchased in the RCU market place from a gentleman who could not keep the exhaust pipe from breaking. I put it on a plane and didn't do anything to it - not even adjust the needle valve. Low and behold, the next spring, I got trash in the needle valve and had to remove the needle to flush the system. But for the next three years, it has been trouble free,

    The 62 is the largest of the small block engines that evolved in the 40, 45, 50, 56, & 62 sizes. However, the 62 has the bigger rear bearing from the 72 and the bigger cam that is in the 65 through 125 engines.

    The 62 reaches a good compromise between power and fuel economy. It fits in the 40 size planes and makes them really perform.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  25. #23625
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    The .62 will idle slower than the .65, that could be attributed to the fact that the .65 still has the pre-upgrade spraybar in it.
    Case 570 Diesel, 188.4 Cu. In. HP==36 @ 1,900 RPM, CR 17.5 to 1. Bore==3.8125, Stroke==4.125

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5


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