FNQFLYER

Don't know about normal use but we have found reversal of 4 strokes as described above is fatal in the competition arena.  However that is not necessarily true whenn applied to Enya 4 strokes especially the 53 which used in a pusher configuration, pumped and with steriods (40%) has worked well to the point of winning club comps.  We never took it beyond that. 

FNQFLYER

Any way why bother, I am a believer of leaving things alone with regards to mechanicals in our 4 strokes, especially Saitos and YS engines.  Good power relative economy and reliable operation (to manufacturers specs, well almost) is what I am looking for. I prefer to buy the required power these days rather than try to build a new toy so to speak, lot easier on the pocket book etc  

mike early

SAI182TD34 will reverse the direction in the 65-100 engines, My question is the timing on the cam during assembly. Can we assume it is the same?


P.S. The FA-56 is reversed by installing the SAI130T34 cam shaft.

Again, all the mid block engines, from the FA-65 up to and including the FA-100, are reversed using the SAI182TD34 cam.

All of the big block engines, the 120, 150, and 180, use the SAI300T34 cam to reverse the engine.

Rudolph Hart

Morning dave.It states the fa30s-c specs in the advertising brochure you get with any new saito engine.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

That explains why I could not find anything online like that.

Ernie Misner

Interesting that Saito uses the same cam in many different size engines. Rather than opening further they must use larger valves in the bigger engines.

FNQFLYER

According to the people I met at Saito the original design of the cylinder was based on the P&W 1830 cylinder.  This has under gone many "upgrades " since the "early days".  Those upgrades have included, timing, valve size including retention and seat and seat material, changing from open to closed rockers being some of them.  As I understood it the engine was one under going continuous evolution.  

Rudolph Hart

Hi fnq,all i've read about saito history and design left me feeling that they settled on a good design early and stuck with it much like harley did.

Rudolph Hart

Meant to add that my favourite engine daydream is that saito mass produce something similar to the 200iL kolm 3 cylinder inline fourstroke in the galloping ghost.And could we have the same carby setup that lets the engine backfire occasionally?? man i'd love that.

FNQFLYER

You got it.  The Saito team looked at the best cylinder design that could be adapted to model a/c engines and went there. P&W radials in particular the commercial ones were the best design to manufacture and in the end the simplest.  And that is what they went with.  Just imagine a Saito with the wet sleeve design of a Centorus, or a Herciules the mind boggles
Catch ya

FNQFLYER

Old Fart, that would be interesting.  If you want to see a lot of Saitos in action come to Canowindra at easter.  They are the engine of choice amongst those who don't feel the need for "real speed and power" (read YS 53 and 63, McCoy 60, and the various modified OS 2 strokes).
In O/T Saitos can be made to do what ever you want with tuning, variations on fuel mix and props.  And this is what makes them, to my mind, the best 4 stroke on the market and in most cases they are built and last as long as the proverbial brick ****house.
A Saito 65 will be my campaign engine for easter.  I am flying to Brisbane (cheaper than driving the 1800kms each way) picking up a Miss Americia to campaign in both Texaco and Duration.  I will be mixing the fuels needed thereand will have my quiver of competition Bolley props but the centre piece will be the 65which has been rebearinged, has a set of new Saito plugs and will all be teasted at Calvert Field before both myself and my old mate head south.
You should come over for at least a look, the mob from WA enjoyed themselves last year.
Raining, sort off today but still not the "real wet"
Catch Ya.  

rowdyjoe

My Feedback: (9)

Iam currently building an ARF and the instructions recommend mounting a 4 stroke engine inverted. I plan to use a Saito .91. I've heard some negative comments about running a 4 stroke inverted. Will my Saito run OK in that position?
Comments please.

Thanks,
RJ

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

It will but its tricky. You will have to relearn the starting procedure

mike early

Every one of my Saitos are inverted. No problems at all. Cover the exhaust, turn the prop 2-3 turns (depending on how long your fuel line is) and apply heat and start.

If you are going to run an engine inverted, Saito's the way to go.

Ernie Misner

Once it's running it won't know the difference. Take a look at how the carb lines up with tank centerline in that position. In the event of any flooding remember that it can cause hydraulic lock in the combustion chamber. So if in doubt crank the engine over once by hand before hitting it with the starter and bending the rod or breaking the crank pin. If you use a good slug of ARO that can seep past the ring and also cause hydraulic lock.

rowdyjoe

My Feedback: (9)

Thanks fellas. I appreciate the feedback and I feel comfortable mounting it inverted.

Thanks,
Garry

SrTelemaster150

I'm running an FA91S inverted. Just be careful that you do not overprime the engine as flooding W/the inverted carb/manifold will induce hydrolock. Also make sure your carb fuel line is isolated during tank fill or you can pump the engine full of fuel. Either use a valve that isolates the carb line or pull the fuel line off the carb when fueling.

I don't prime @ all for cold starts. I use an electric starter. W/the throttle all the way closed W/the throttle lever as well as idle trim. (shut down position) I get the engine spinning, then slowly open the throttle W/the idle trim. Keep the engine spinning until it draws fuel & starts at a high idle trim position.

Once the engine is warm, you can use the same idle trim trick to keep the engine from kicking back against the starter.

I can start my 12.77:1 CR high compression FA180HC W/a 90 size starter by clsoing the throttle trim to reduce cranking pressure until the engine is spinning.

Ernie Misner

Sounds like a good trick but how do you hold the starter and plane, then work the throttle lever?

FNQFLYER

Here is a trick for inverted 4 stroke engines.  Offset the motor from the full inverted / 90 degree position so as to have the exhaust valve pointing straight down.  Thus when you turn the engine over "carefully" all the excess fuel and sludge is expelled before you attempt to start.  Has worked for me and others for many a year.  Comes from handling P&W round engines.  If left for a while sludge accumulates in the bottom pot remove the spark plug (or turn the motor through by hand) and presto no hydraulic lock.  BTB with inverted engine if I feel it "lock" I remove the plug and let the gung rung out before trying to start same.
Sr Telemasters starting procedure is what we used when we "pump" and engine or are running a YS 53 or 63.  Works well and we don't break engines

kochj

YOU CAN MAKE A SMARTER STARTER....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q0q5...4AFCC0&index=1

tkline

Ok I need to ask a question to some of y'all that have a lot of experience with the saito 180's. My question is will this thing start running cleaner after I have run it more ? I have about 1/2 gallon through it on a test stand and it really makes a mess I know I'm still running it on the rich side but it still seems to be excessively messy I was wandering if this is normal for this large of an engine or not I know several of my smaller ones run a lot cleaner the more I run them but in the last 30 years I have never owned one larger that a .91 so I have have any idea how long it takes to get this one broke in good it hand starts easy idles pretty well and transitions good but like I said I'm still running it a little rich and haven't touched the low speed yet. So any advice on this engine would be appreciated.
Thanks Tracy

SrTelemaster150

I use some sort of wheel chock behind the maingear. 3/16" nylon sash cord is looped around the tail feathers & secured W/a large "nail" type tent stack keeps the plane from moving forward on the start..

I pull the airframe forward to tension the tie down & chock the back of the maingear weels.

An appropriate length piece of 2X4 ripped @ a 45* angle & secured W/2 more tent pegs works pretty good..

On some smaller airframes W/fixed maingear that angles out, te tent pegs can be pushed into the ground angling down & to the rear right beind the axle next to the weels.

Lots of ways to keep the plane from rolling back. It's securing it from lunging forward that is most important.

SrTelemaster150

Now I really like tat concept. I may have to rig someting like tat up on my fligt box.

Quikturn

My Feedback: (12)

Hey everyone,

Does anyone know what the thread pitch is for a cylinder to crankcase bolt on a Saito 91? I know the bolt is a 3.5mm. My guess is that it's a .6 pitch but I'm not sure.


Thanks

kochj

I have a thread guage now, and would not go without one... It was included in a tap&die kit...I thought it
Was a feeler guage! Never had seen one before...
I think you could check it out on true turn website when you look for spinker adapters.
???