Rudolph Hart

Thats a good description of a well tuned saito,82 in my case.Full throttle and going near vertical with that slight wisp of smoke as you mention.Good luck at the champs fokker

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

The mounting dimensions for the FA .40 through the .62 are the same. 40, 45, .50, .56 etc.

hsukaria

Hobbsy,
Everytime you post a picture of a Saito (especially if more than one), I start drooling. I can't wait to fly my 82 this summer.[8D]

FNQFLYER

Just a little something to add to the pot.
For people looking to see what engine will mount in what "hole" check out the Saito engine mounts.  On the packet it will tell you what that mount is compatible for. Saves you money and adds to the knowledge pool.  Of course you could look it up on the internet but what fun is that and removes the need to visit the hobby shop and you wouldn't want to miss out on that. 

FNQFLYER

To old fart, the sight of a model going vertical is great.  Imagine a 8 foot wing span model (3 pound 12 ozs ) going so high in 28 seconds.  The apparent wingspan is about a finger lenght (= 1500feet in altitude) This is the followed by about 5 minutes of gliding (seems like 1 hour if you are trying to make the finals)  All good stuff and puts of the need for a pacemaker for another 12 months.
For any one who is interested check out the SAM International site on the web. 

orthobird

My Feedback: (1)

update for you all

Rudolph Hart

Good news mate.There have been a few threads about whether to use after run oil or not,then that will sub-divide itself into which brand etc.All i know is that if i don't use some i end up changing bearings lots.

SrTelemaster150

According to [link=http://saito-engines.info/specifications.html]SAITO SPECIFICATIONS[/link], while the 40 shares the same mount bolt span front to rear (15mm) W/the engines you cite, the width of the bolt pattern is 38mm for the FA40 while the FA50-56-72-82 have a 46mm bolt pattern width. It doesn't list the FA45 in the dimensional table even though they have the internal geometry listed.

Since the FA45 shares the same stroke as the FA50-56-62 & the same prop shaft size as those as well as the FA62-72-82, it might be a good assumption that the FA45 shares the wider 46mm bolt pattern.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Dan, we're talking about two completely different .40s. I'm talking about the FA .40 and the dimensions you show are for the FA .40a. Here they are side by side, the old FA .40 is the big one.

2nd is a shot of the FA .40a and the FA.30, when the FA .40a first was released Horizon claimed it would directly replace the little .30, it turned out to an untruth.

FNQFLYER

Old Fart I agree with you re after run, I use what ever is to hand, Klotz, Cool power (at a pinch) ATF,  exersise is to get oil into the bearings and exclude other bad stuff.  That being said, the 65 I am resurecting was re built and not run but filled with ATF.  Turned it over the other day and guess what I heard the dreaded clicking noise.  Application of a bit of heat freed the sticking lifter, now to run the sucker. 

Quikturn

My Feedback: (12)

I put stainless steel bearings from RC Bearings in my 65 and haven't had any problems with it since.

Rudolph Hart

Hi mate don't doubt you for a minute.I've got an expensive set of stainless steel golf clubs and the best japanese stainless bearings i can find for my saitos.No after run or after care on either and they soon start complaining(rust) just the way it is here,cheers

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

For those interested in Saito geneology here is an old exposed rocker .30, it appears to be the same dimensions as the FA .40, .45 etc.

FNQFLYER

My experience with open rocker Saitos lends me to believe that the 40 and I think rare (for Oz) 45 had similar mount patterns.  Don't know about the 30.  In any case with a lot of these engines by going up one or two drill sizes (number drills)  it is possible to accomodate engines that otherwise would not fit.  Note I only do this with "sport engines"

Rudolph Hart

I reckon re engine mount drilling,what about the firewalls they were attached too?? my 46 size deccy firewall looked like it had been hit with a 12 gauge shotgun after a few years mate

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

OF, several of my planes have filled in mounting holes. I put masking tape across the front, then turn the fuse on end and fill the holes with 3 hour epoxy. It makes em good as new. On a couple that had questionable fire walls in the first place I laminated a piece of 1/16" on the inside or outside which ever suited my fancy at the time. You can see a couple of filled in holes on this LT 25 where I decided to mount a Diesel leaning over then changed it again to the Saito .30.

When filling in the holes the 3 Hour Epoxy will soak into the surrounding wood, so you have to keep topping it off. That's an advantage to using the 3 Hour stuff.

Cougar429

My Feedback: (3)

Since firewalls are structural I mix FLOX in with 30 minute epoxy to fill old holes. This also makes great fillets and unlike microballoons is structural and sandable.

I use a similar little trick with firewalls and other primary structural members. I layer several thinner pieces of ply and glass cloth to form the original thickness, weighing the assembly down between two pieces of 1/4 plexi till the epoxy cures. Believe me when I say this adds minimal weight and the finished product is darned near indestructible.

I may have posted this earlier, but here is the Saito 125 bolted to a firewall constructed that way. The new wing rib structure for Rare Bear was built of two layers ply/glass in that method.

flyalot

My Feedback: (63)

I have a Saito 1.50. I purchased it 1998. I have bench run the engine to break it in (last spring). The engine is, after over a gallon of fuel,
still difficult to start because of a very high compression ratio. I use a electric starter to turn the engine over. I will be continuing my breakin this spring,
is the very high compression normal with this engine?
I have OS engines similar in size ( 1.2, 1.6, 1.55p and 200) none of these are as over compressed as the Saito.
Joe

Cougar429

My Feedback: (3)

I find Saitos always higher compression than OS. The larger engines require a strong electric starter and power source, especially in cold weather. My LiPo powered portable electric is a bit limp with the 125a, so upgrading to a Sullivan HiTork this summer to see how it works out.

You also have to have good contact between the starter cone and prop/spinner or will require excessive force to be applied to get the motor to spin past compression. Frankly, this is adding a lot of stress on the motor and perhaps forcing the crank back far enough to overload the bearings or touch the rear cover.

If you decide to hand prop, use a good leather glove or chicken stick. That higher compression can come back to bite you.

p.s. Don't forget to check valve lash after a few hours break in. Once the motor settles in it should require that much less.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Fly, if you've runa gallon of fuel through it, it was broken in 3 quarts ago. Saitos are not necessarily over compressed, its just that due to their chrome bore and very precise fitting piston and ring, their compression does not leak off while being flipped. Yours has relatively low compression compared to this early 1991 1.50, its compression ratio 15.5 to 1. This is one of the first 1.50s made and sold.

hsukaria

The Saito 82 I bought used had more compression last month when I first ran it. I ran about 20 oz with an APC 14x4W. I then tried to run it last week but it would not start, even when I primed it. Now it feels like it has low compression. I checked the glow starter, and replaced the glowplugs twice, but no luck. Is it possible that the valve gaps need re-adjustment?

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

H, if it is fully broken in, 40 minutes or an hour it should only require valve lash adjusting about once a year. That 14x4 is a mighty light load it may be allowint it to over rev. The .82 will handle a 14x 6 as well as the .91.

hsukaria

Hobbsy, I just bought an APC 14x6 yesterday and I will try again with an electric starter. I tried with only a chicken stick before. I will check the valve gaps, I think you and others discussed the gap adjustment a few months ago.

Rudolph Hart

Thanks for that Dave,i ended up tapping some wooden dowls into the many spare holes with some 30 minute epoxy.I've got four new aeroplanes on the same bench at the moment all being assembled in random order.The fg57 is now in the blackhorse v3 edge,the fa220 is now in the mew gull and the fa200r3 has'nt made it into the harvard yet plus the new 46 size deccy is half done with an 82 about to go in.It's why my workbench looks like yours! hardly any room left to rest my beer can somewhere..

Rudolph Hart

They can be a bit difficult to start at times with a chicken stick if not tuned or primed right,then i resort to the starter.You should get close to 9000 on the ground with the apc 14x6.

Cougar what is flox??