Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 03-21-2013, 08:08 PM
  #24476
SrTelemaster150
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,578
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


Quote:
ORIGINAL: hsukaria

What I know is based on what I read in these forums and engine manuals. I understood that ringed engines you want to break in gradually and start out very rich and gradually lean in with time. It is different for ABC/ABN/ABL engines where you need to run them at peak for short bursts and then let them cool off by shutting them down repeatedly. The ABC./ABN/ABL engines need to loosen up the pinch without excessive rubbing of the plating. Running an ABC/ABL/ABN engine rich on break-in will only prevent the pinch from expanding due to heat and that causes the plating to get worn off. But Saitos are ringed engines, so you want to break them in with a rich mixture and gradually lean in to allow the piston ring to wear to the cylinder without building excessive heat. It doesn't matter how slow you take it with a ringed engine, just sit back and relax as you run them in. You will eventually get to the peak rpm and have enough Mean Effective Pressure to push the ring against the cylinder wall.

Yes by all means take your time & avoid excessive heat, but if an engine is run too long W/O sufficient cylinder pressure, the cylinder wall will glaze before the ring is seated.

That makes me suspect of replacing a ring W/O using some scotchbrite or something to slightly roughen up the cylinder wall.

I have read that the chrome plating, when it is new, does have minute cracks in the surface from the electroplating that allow the ring to seat.

One would likely never notice excessive blow by in our engines like you would in an automotive engine. Our engines have a lot of blowby (for their size)compared a large automobile engine. There would however be a loss in power.

W/the high compression engines I modify that would likely result in a much more significant drop in performance.

Speaking of performance. Some say that the Saito minimum valve lash spec of .04mm results in a loss of power.

My 13:1 CR FA180HC CDI/BBC engine W/the valve lash set W/a .0015" feeler gauge developed 8550 RPM W/a Dynathrust 18 X 8 propeller. That's right @ 4HP, over 2.2HP per cu in. The minimal valve lash setting certainly doesn't seem to diminish power in my engines.
SrTelemaster150 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 10:43 PM
  #24477
Old Fart
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 3,630
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Live and let live my man
Old Fart is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 11:45 PM
  #24478
Hrannar
 
Hrannar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Patreksfjordur, ICELAND
Posts: 13
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Is the club still accepting members?
Just got my first Saito, a FA-100 that will be the powerplant for a Top Flite P-51, guess I have to read through all the 966 pages for tips and tricks, but anyway, ain't she a beauty

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Fd91738.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	93.4 KB
ID:	1865058  
Hrannar is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 02:23 AM
  #24479
Old Fart
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 3,630
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I hope so,we need to replace one we're gonna lose shortly.Do you get a summer or winter up there and how's that go with building or flying??
Old Fart is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 03:29 AM
  #24480
Hobbsy
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 17,353
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Note that BMEP is purely theoretical and has nothing to do with actual cylinder pressures. It is simply a tool to evaluate the efficiency of a given engine at producing torque from a given displacement.

BMEP is not even a real concept, it is a theory, totally unrelated to breaking in an engine. We could do this forever and only confuse people which you already have. Sticking to a plan is never a bad thing when it is reasonable, convenient, predictable and repeatable, as long at it gets the desired results. Popular Mechanics has never broken in a Saito and the issues here do not directly translate.
Hobbsy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 03:49 AM
  #24481
Hobbsy
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 17,353
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

We surely are, BLW, Barry, will give you one as soon as he sees your request. Mine is 5 so I've been doing this a while. Welcome to the Club

PS, that's a great shot of "trial" so there won't be any error. Measure twice cut once as they say.
Hobbsy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 04:08 AM
  #24482
Old Fart
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 3,630
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Trial??over here we call that cheating pal,mind you we already have by being lazy and flying an arf,much harder to fit an engine like that when this guy just cheats by laying the engine on a plan..i mean..does he want it any easier?
Old Fart is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 04:20 AM
  #24483
Hobbsy
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 17,353
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

OF, flying the plan is about as light as you can get, he could fly it with a Saito .05
Hobbsy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 04:50 AM
  #24484
SrTelemaster150
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,578
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Note that BMEP is purely theoretical and has nothing to do with actual cylinder pressures. It is simply a tool to evaluate the efficiency of a given engine at producing torque from a given displacement.

BMEP is not even a real concept, it is a theory, totally unrelated to breaking in an engine.

Popular Mechanics has never broken in a Saito and the issues here do not directly translate.
Popular Mechanics was not the only link I posted. Are you saying that Saito engines are imune to the laws of physics as they apply to ringed piston engine break in?

If you want some literature that cites chrome lined bores, perhaps the following link can shed some light. Note that except for a very brief start up/check cycle, they do not advocate minimal load break in @ reduced RPM either.

http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182895-1.html

Here is a page on breaking in Continental aircraft engines. Again, except for a very brief start/check cycle, they warn against no/low load break in & the resultant glazing of the cylinder walls.

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#Break-In

The following is a link to the "Lycoming Flyer" manual. On page 2 it warns to NOT break in an engine @ low power settings. They recommend 75% power for break in.

http://www.lycoming.com/support/tips...Operations.pdf

Seems like the "old wives tales" have some credible people that still advocate them.

Evolution & gravity have been refered to as "theories".

Could you kindly cite some credible literature that supports your "theory"?
SrTelemaster150 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 05:02 AM
  #24485
Hobbsy
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 17,353
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

OF and others, here is picture of Bill Robison, (WR), he was a good friend that I never met in person, he drove a Grand Mercedes 600 that he said got 5 mpg because he had modified it to 500 hp from the stock 350hp. He spent his life as a teacher, mechanic, racer, motorcycle enthusiast, historian and all around gearhead. Many of us here spent hours with him on the phone.

Bill loved Saitos for their high quality and uniqueness. As I've mentioned previously WR borrowed this Saito .30 for his Saito notes and colored the cylinder black, it is a treasured possession because of that. What ever he colored it with is tough because I haven't managed to knock any of it off.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Xv63943.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	59.1 KB
ID:	1865132   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pm34798.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	46.4 KB
ID:	1865133  
Hobbsy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 05:03 AM
  #24486
Hobbsy
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 17,353
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

OF and others, here is picture of Bill Robison, (WR), he was a good friend that I never met in person, he drove a Grand Mercedes 600 that he said got 5 mpg because he had modified it to 500 hp from the stock 350hp. He spent his life as a teacher, mechanic, racer, motorcycle enthusiast, historian and all around gearhead. Many of us here spent hours with him on the phone.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Xv63943.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	59.1 KB
ID:	1865136  
Hobbsy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 05:04 AM
  #24487
Hobbsy
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 17,353
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

OF and others, here is picture of Bill Robison, (WR), he was a good friend that I never met in person, he drove a Grand Mercedes 600 that he said got 5 mpg because he had modified it to 500 hp from the stock 350hp. He spent his life as a teacher, mechanic, racer, motorcycle enthusiast, historian and all around gearhead. Many of us here spent hours with him on the phone.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Xv63943.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	59.1 KB
ID:	1865137  
Hobbsy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 05:05 AM
  #24488
Hobbsy
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 17,353
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

OF and others, here is picture of Bill Robison, (WR), he was a good friend that I never met in person, he drove a Grand Mercedes 600 that he said got 5 mpg because he had modified it to 500 hp from the stock 350hp. He spent his life as a teacher, mechanic, racer, motorcycle enthusiast, historian and all around gearhead. Many of us here spent hours with him on the phone.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Xv63943.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	59.1 KB
ID:	1865138  
Hobbsy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 09:02 AM
  #24489
nitroairplane
 
nitroairplane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 584
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

i have only one saito.

It's a .50 and it's in my cub.

I have yet to run the engine, cannot wait.
nitroairplane is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 09:07 AM
  #24490
Hobbsy
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 17,353
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Nit, the .50, the .56 and the .62 are all three real sweetheart engines. It should turn a 12x6 at 9,500+ That'll get you Saito Club # if you want it.
Hobbsy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 09:31 AM
  #24491
nitroairplane
 
nitroairplane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 584
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I would love my #

I'll tach it as soon as I get to run it, really looking forward to this one.
nitroairplane is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 10:01 AM
  #24492
VictoryRoll
 
VictoryRoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Norfolk, MA
Posts: 289
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Thank you all for helping me define how to break-in my new FA-100...  I will use a mix of Hobbsy's, SrTelemaster150's (Robinson) and BLW's methods... I have to think about it a bit and wait for this dang cold, crappy weather to relinquish to Springtime... man, I gotta move to FL !!!

Again, thank you all, and I will be touching base, probably with more questions, as I start the break-in process. 

Don
VictoryRoll is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 10:09 AM
  #24493
blw
Moderator
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,258
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

It was easy to get off topic with Bill because he knew a lot about the cars and motorcycles I was brought up around. My dad had a Lotus 11 among other things, and Bill knew a lot about it and the engine. He always brought back the memories of being raised in a crazy car/bike/boat/airplane family. Good off topic talks about BSAs, Triumphs, and Norton Commandos.
blw is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 02:29 PM
  #24494
SrTelemaster150
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,578
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Quote:
ORIGINAL: blw

It was easy to get off topic with Bill because he knew a lot about the cars and motorcycles I was brought up around. My dad had a Lotus 11 among other things, and Bill knew a lot about it and the engine. He always brought back the memories of being raised in a crazy car/bike/boat/airplane family. Good off topic talks about BSAs, Triumphs, and Norton Commandos.
Ah, the BSA motorcycle.

B****** Siezed Already!

After spending about 5 years learning the quirks, in the early '70s, I would still love to have a restored '67 Lightning. (I had a Thunderbolt)
SrTelemaster150 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2013, 04:08 PM
  #24495
Old Fart
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 3,630
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I was researching whatever at the time and stumbled across a photo of Will Robison on what looked like an egli vincent,whatever it was i'd have given a months pay for a hours ride on it.
Old Fart is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 06:01 AM
  #24496
SrTelemaster150
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,578
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart

I was researching whatever at the time and stumbled across a photo of Will Robison on what looked like an egli vincent,whatever it was i'd have given a months pay for a hours ride on it.

SrTelemaster150 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 06:54 PM
  #24497
hsukaria
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dearborn, MI
Posts: 3,044
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I took out my FA-82 and ran it on the bench. I installed an APC 14x6, used 20% nitro, 20% synth oil. I used an electric starter this time and it started easily. I got around 9000 rpm, quite impressive to me. I am looking forward to using it this coming flying season.

Before running it, I sprayed penetrant oil at the valves with the intake and exhaust manifold removed as was suggested. Then I re-adjusted the valve gaps, it turns out that they were much wider than Saito recommends.
hsukaria is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 07:04 PM
  #24498
Hobbsy
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 17,353
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

HS, if you want a tenacious lube for the rockers try some Power Steering fluid, that stuff has staying power like you would not believe.
Hobbsy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 07:16 PM
  #24499
blw
Moderator
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,258
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Dave- are you saying that the 1.25 should be set to .004? I've been adjusting the lash at .003. Makes a difference?
blw is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 07:19 PM
  #24500
SrTelemaster150
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,578
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


Quote:
ORIGINAL: blw

Dave- are you saying that the 1.25 should be set to .004? I've been adjusting the lash at .003. Makes a difference?
Spec's in the FA125 manual say .002" to .004".

All opening up the lash will do is increase wear & diminish power.

It might make the idle a little smoother.
SrTelemaster150 is offline  
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:09 AM.