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Old 06-20-2015, 04:06 AM
  #29551  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Greg your comments come from experience,about the cyl dropping out at low rpm there are two easy remedies.On 10% nitro add 7% unleaded to the mix.This mixture is good enough to keep a seven cylinder 770 indian built seidal copy running,two,add more nitro.Expect plenty of comments about fuel atomisation on saito radials and a guy who does good conversion kits for the gas radials,especially the fg84.
I don't have a triple or any multi except a 130t, and I apologize for making an unqualified comment. But, would the offending cylinder be kept alive more consistently if a different plug were used in that cylinder? What is it, a cold plug or a hot one? Anyway one that would stay hotter without on-board glow.

Sincerely,
A True Red Blooded Yank (I don't care if I am on top or bottom, both positions work for me)
Old 06-20-2015, 04:13 AM
  #29552  
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Sam, just lose the pump feature. It will run perfect without it. I had that same pump on a 2.20, it was an option and a nightmare. How can you tell whether it's running on one plug or both. If it requires glow power on both plugs one plug is bad. Alternate the battery from one to the other and determine which one is bad.
Old 06-20-2015, 04:23 AM
  #29553  
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Originally Posted by slamn sammy
Howdey Ya! Did ya'll miss me? l'm still around, got one eye here and the other on the Tv. LOL This is kinda a Q&A. l ended up with a Goldn Nite FA120 Tween plug, Pump engine? Has two needle valve's. One on the carb and one on the pressure line going to the tank. Theres not any time on the motor and l see why! The manual shows the pressure and the crank case drain line going to the tank. MAN! This thing is a tuning nightmare. It will not run on just one plug, it will start on one, then you have to light the other plug. You will get it tune somewhat, then you try to fly it and you may get one flite out of ten. Don't see a (Pump) in the system? BUT! lt will not run with out the tuning valve in place on the pressure line and -or set up like a regular engine. l'd like to remove the pressure line valve and set it up like a normal engine. Do l need to replace the carb? lf ya don't mind, please give your input.

Mike, hows that Cub and 182 coming? Have not hard from you.

OldFart, Whats up? Hope alls good down there.

Happy Fathers Day
Is it a Big Jug 120abc like this:


If so, the carb is unique and Bill Robison had some tuning tips for it. Let us know and I will post my (his) notes).
BTW, mine has gold rocker covers, and only one plug. Some had one some had two, I guess.

If not a 120abc, then I have review and notes on the later 120aac from Clarence Lee/

Happy Fathers Day to all of you.

Sincerely, Richard
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Old 06-20-2015, 05:34 AM
  #29554  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Sam, just lose the pump feature. It will run perfect without it. I had that same pump on a 2.20, it was an option and a nightmare. How can you tell whether it's running on one plug or both. If it requires glow power on both plugs one plug is bad. Alternate the battery from one to the other and determine which one is bad.
Well thats just it. lt will start on eater plug. When you start it, it will idle on one but it is ruff. When you pit the glow driver on the other, it will smooth out. l have replaced both plugs and it don't make a deferents? Now you can put a glow driver on both and it will fire right up! You can tune it and it seem like it has lots of power and when you take off, it may run fine or it will go lean or rich or die. Have changed out the tank three times?? Have tried to remove the pressure valve and hook up the line to the muffler like normal and just let the crankcase drain line just hang out like normal? We have a guy in our club thinks he's a fourcycle guru, said l need to replace the carb with a regular 120 carb and he thinks it will fix it. He has offered to take it and work on it, BUT! l may not ever see it a gene! (It Aways Something) Thinking about cleaning it up and putting it into my showcase! Black and Gold It's a nice looking engine. l got it on a trade. The guy l got it from said it did the same thing with him from new? Instead of taking it back, he just put it up. Nice!! Just a POS! LOL
Old 06-20-2015, 06:19 AM
  #29555  
Hobbsy
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Sam, as near as I can find your 1.20 does not have a special carb. If I may ask what glow plugs are you running, normally you only need to light one and the combustion lights the other one instantly. You're not the first to be frustrated by the pump arrangement. You'll be chasing your tail as long as you fool with it.
Old 06-20-2015, 06:42 AM
  #29556  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Sam, as near as I can find your 1.20 does not have a special carb. If I may ask what glow plugs are you running, normally you only need to light one and the combustion lights the other one instantly. You're not the first to be frustrated by the pump arrangement. You'll be chasing your tail as long as you fool with it.


Thank You for the come back guy's. Right now l have OSMG-F from Tower Hobbies. Have tryed Fox plugs (Brother inlaw works there, Free Plugs) Have tryes O.S.#8 just for fun. Tryed Fire Balls-JUNK!!! It's the same no matter what plugs l use.
Old 06-20-2015, 07:01 AM
  #29557  
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I have a dual plug Saito. I run OS-F plugs front and rear. I just use a glow driver on the rear. The front plug takes care of itself.

Most old style straight 120's had a air bleed carb? Some also had a carb with an adjustable midrange. There was a big brass disk on the midrange carbs that you turned slightly to angle the spray bar to adjust the midrange.

Some pictures may help determine what you have? The 120 was made for close to 20 years before they came out with the 120S with the high lift cam. There are several variations of it.

The original style 120's could be made to run reliably but they didn't have the power that the last design 120S. There are even two designs of the 120S.
Old 06-20-2015, 07:07 AM
  #29558  
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just wanted to share with the group. I lost my trusty Saito 50. It was a great engine. always worked perfectly.
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Old 06-20-2015, 07:15 AM
  #29559  
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Originally Posted by w8ye
I have a dual plug Saito. I run OS-F plugs front and rear. I just use a glow driver on the rear. The front plug takes care of itself.

Most old style straight 120's had a air bleed carb? Some also had a carb with an adjustable midrange. There was a big brass disk on the midrange carbs that you turned slightly to angle the spray bar to adjust the midrange.

Some pictures may help determine what you have? The 120 was made for close to 20 years before they came out with the 120S with the high lift cam. There are several variations of it.

The original style 120's could be made to run reliably but they didn't have the power that the last design 120S. There are even two designs of the 120S.
I know that it don't have a air bleed carb. Will have to pull the cowl and ck, for the midrange adjustment. Will do later. Right know, have to clean house! (Man's Job Is Never Dun) LOL....... Thanks, will post when l know. That may be whats wrong???


Happy Fathers Day =-)
Old 06-20-2015, 08:21 AM
  #29560  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Sam, as near as I can find your 1.20 does not have a special carb. If I may ask what glow plugs are you running, normally you only need to light one and the combustion lights the other one instantly. You're not the first to be frustrated by the pump arrangement. You'll be chasing your tail as long as you fool with it.
It puzzles me that so many have issues W/the pump.

Just set it and forget it. If you fiddle W/the pump, the needles on the carburetor will need to be adjusted. My FA-300TTDP runs great W/the pump as does my high compression FA-180 W/the BB FA-220 carburetor.

What you have the remember is that the pump needle is the opposite of the carburetor needles. Screwing the pump needle in increases pressure, thereby making the A/F ratio richer. I experiment by turning up the pump pressure, then checking the carburetor needles. Generally, screwing the pump needle in will require a slight leaning out of the carburetor needles. (screw the pump needle in/screw the carburetor needles in) I try to run as much pressure as I can and still get reliable idle & transition. It's my take that higher pump pressure atomizes the fuel better & gives a more efficient burn.

You can just leave the pump @ the factory starting adjustment if you like the results..

The great thing about the pump is that fuel delivery will remain constant regardless of the fuel level in the tank in relationship to the spray bar. It will also allow the tank to be mounted farther back over the CG.

The duel carburetors on this FA-300TTDP are very high above the tank centerline yet it idles, transitions & runs @ WOT very consistently regardless of the fuel level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdmLu13UJzs

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 06-20-2015 at 09:37 AM.
Old 06-20-2015, 08:35 AM
  #29561  
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I tried a couple of different props on the little .30 just now.

Fuel===WildCat 10% full synthetic 18% lube.
Plug===Fox Miracle
Prop===Taipan 9x6 rpm==picture #1
Prop===MA 3 blade 8x6 rpm==picture #2

I don't think I'd fly either of those props. I guess the 10 or 10.5" Bolly's and or Graupner's are best.

Dan, I believe your the only person on planet Earth who stumbled onto a good setting for those poor excuse' for pumps. Not trying to be a bad guy.
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Old 06-20-2015, 09:46 AM
  #29562  
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
I tried a couple of different props on the little .30 just now.

Fuel===WildCat 10% full synthetic 18% lube.
Plug===Fox Miracle
Prop===Taipan 9x6 rpm==picture #1
Prop===MA 3 blade 8x6 rpm==picture #2

I don't think I'd fly either of those props. I guess the 10 or 10.5" Bolly's and or Graupner's are best.

Dan, I believe your the only person on planet Earth who stumbled onto a good setting for those poor excuse' for pumps. Not trying to be a bad guy.
Those pumps are a beauty in simplicity. All they do is convert the crankcase into an air compressor W/the use of check valves. Regulate the pressure, then find the proper needle settings.

The hard part is understanding the concept. If you fiddle W/things in the wrong order, you will end up chasing your tail.

When I bought my FA-300TTDP back in the late '90s, the 300 twins where very popular in large scale aerobatic planes, but everyone I talked to had mixture balance issues W/the single carburetor engines at idle. That's when I decided that the dual carburetor engine was the way to go. The engine runs fine W/the factory recommended pump setting but I have tweaked it a bit. One starts out @ the factory pump setting & maximizes the needle settings. Then screw down the pump a little until the engine sags from the A/F ratio becoming rich. Re-visit the needle settings by leaning them out again for maximum performance.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 06-20-2015 at 05:21 PM.
Old 06-20-2015, 11:41 AM
  #29563  
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[QUOTE=w8ye;12058260]...
The old style straight 120's had an air bleed carb. some also had a carb with an adjustable midrange. There was a big brass disk on the midrange carbs that you turned slightly to angle the spray bar to adjust the midrange..;.


Like this Big Jug FA-120abc:


Sincerely, Richard
Old 06-20-2015, 02:01 PM
  #29564  
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Had a twin plug 120 and a twin plug 150 in Malaysia both bought new from Winning Hobbies in Hong Kong, neither had pumps and both worked well on either plug only problem was that I used a dual source to start and did not know (by usual means) if a plug had died.
Old 06-20-2015, 02:08 PM
  #29565  
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Now you know that I had to comment on the "down under thing". The South Africiamnrugby team (Union not league) used to say they were "going down under" when they went to New Zealand (not OZ). Now referring to NZ as "down under" is tantamount to declaring war, they have tried to steal Anzac biscuits, pavlova and numerous other items of OZ national identity but no way will they ever be called as being "down under".. BTB I have met up with a lot of "citizens of the USA" who I knew from the old days in Indochina (a lot worked for "the company" and a lot have settled permanently in Cairns. Just a piece of useless info to be thrown out there. Just to finish, it is very cold (down to 12 degrees) but a beautiful day otherwise so it is off to the field to run a few engines a fly a few models.
Old 06-20-2015, 02:34 PM
  #29566  
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Re-post for Fiery

I tried a couple of different props on the little .30 just now.

Fuel===WildCat 10% full synthetic 18% lube.
Plug===Fox Miracle
Prop===Taipan 9x6 rpm==picture #1
Prop===MA 3 blade 8x6 rpm==picture #2
A really nice 2,400 rpm idle with the Taipan. More like 2,600 with the 3 blader.

I don't think I'd fly either of those props. I guess the 10 or 10.5" Bolly's and or Graupner's are best.
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Last edited by Hobbsy; 06-20-2015 at 02:37 PM.
Old 06-20-2015, 03:04 PM
  #29567  
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Originally Posted by jkr_1100
just wanted to share with the group. I lost my trusty Saito 50. It was a great engine. always worked perfectly.
That is not lost, just misplaced. I do that a lot lately. Hope you choose to rebuild it. Good luck.

Sincerely, Richard
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Old 06-20-2015, 05:08 PM
  #29568  
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HI Dave!

Needs more prop for sure! My Taipan 11 x 5 works great with an ancient OS FS 40 ... but no more of that story, this is a SAITO thread! I've sent a PM re props.

Check out my CH converted Saito RD-450

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WpUQT4XTs8
Old 06-21-2015, 02:42 AM
  #29569  
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Originally Posted by spaceworm
I don't have a triple or any multi except a 130t, and I apologize for making an unqualified comment. But, would the offending cylinder be kept alive more consistently if a different plug were used in that cylinder? What is it, a cold plug or a hot one? Anyway one that would stay hotter without on-board glow.

Sincerely,
A True Red Blooded Yank (I don't care if I am on top or bottom, both positions work for me)
Richard now you mention it i remember a flying club mate running a two stroke a3? plug in the cold/rich cylinder at idle and it stopped dropping out so much.My 200r3 has half a gallon thru it and they say after about a gallon things start to settle down.Right now everything is fine above 3000 and with a glow stick left attached to the bottom right cylinder it will idle forever and good transition after that.Greg did'nt want to run an extra battery pack re weight but i might run a small pack and just light that plug at low rpm.

ps jkr don't give up on the 50,i did that to an 82 cost me about 100 bucks for a crank,bearings,o rings and a new inlet tube,otherwise you can hang the engine up behind the bar,always a good talking point..i've got a row of scuffed and broken props hanging up in my bar with a black texture short note on the blade face to remind me how stupid i can be at times

Last edited by Rudolph Hart; 06-21-2015 at 02:46 AM.
Old 06-21-2015, 03:39 AM
  #29570  
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Happy Fathers Day Y'all. This is my son Dave and myself about 48 years ago, picture #2 is he and I about 6 years ago in Black Hills, SD. He is not a modeler but owns about 135 Japanese motorcycles. He is a GearHead with a different passion. I am wearing an RCUniverse hat.
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Old 06-21-2015, 04:39 AM
  #29571  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
..i've got a row of scuffed and broken props hanging up in my bar with a black texture short note on the blade face to remind me how stupid i can be at times...
Stuck in the overhead in our shelters at the club field we have lots of broken props. No notes, but most of us now the story of the memorable crashes. On one shed we have the tails of crashed planes appearing as if they hit the shed and stuck there. One crash we don't have evidence of, but talk about often was a turbine jet that crashed in a tree and caught fire. It just sat there and burned up, leaving only metal bits and the turbine. The owner declined to offer any of the pieces to the wall.

Happy Father's Day to You and everyone.

Best regards, Richard
Old 06-21-2015, 02:32 PM
  #29572  
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On the Saito 30 I anticipated using either a APC 10.5 x 4.5 or x 5 or a Bolly carbon from the dwindling stock either a 10x4 or 10x5.
Old 06-21-2015, 02:38 PM
  #29573  
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JKR- that's looking pretty bad there. Thanks for the pic. Very interesting. I haven't lost a Saito yet, but I'm sure I would be very sorry if any of them went in nose first.
Old 06-22-2015, 03:49 AM
  #29574  
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Originally Posted by fiery
HI Dave!

Needs more prop for sure! My Taipan 11 x 5 works great with an ancient OS FS 40 ... but no more of that story, this is a SAITO thread! I've sent a PM re props.

Check out my CH converted Saito RD-450

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WpUQT4XTs8
l use a 12X5 on my .50 Saito, on a Goldburg Cub with plenty of power. l don't see why the .40 will not pull a 12X5 EZ. l run a 11X4-12X5 on my Pizza Box's. l run them a lot on trainers and sport planes. Good little motors
Old 06-22-2015, 04:54 AM
  #29575  
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Hi sammy.

Sorry jkr barrys comment made me look at your pic closely,is it true you won't need an allen key to get the cylinder off?

Same to you guys,trev which country are they livin in?? we ain't got no fathers day here

Dave really nice photo's.A quick joke for you,your son looks huge,the last time i saw something that big the next door neighbours rotweiller had me baled up

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