Jesse Open

Problem isn't the word. Not a problem here at all. I certainly never shattered a prop. Just that they can be easily tailored to run better depending upon need. Some folks add a shim, some haul a complete CDI around.Some change the fuel blends. Different strokes.

SrTelemaster150

The improved fuel economy with CDI allows 25% less fuel to be 'hauled around".

Any big block Saito will benefit from a CDI conversion with a moderate power increase over GI with the same fuel and the reduced fuel load will offset the weight and bulk of the CDI module/battery. Then there are the easy one flip starts that virtually eliminate any chance of kick back, lower dependable idle and an overall improvement in user friendliness.

Jesse Open

Maybe in a best-case scenario.

The CDI system weight is ever present.
Fuel burns away during the engine run and any (if any) initial, marginal weight advantage is continually diminished during the entire flight. One must also consider the weight of the additional electrical energy to power the CDI system. The engine idle speed is actually already lower than required with the glow system very steady and reliable. Starting, idling and power output are quite satisfactory (yes, even one flip starts). The lack of clutter and un-needed sophistry in the engine area is quite welcome.

Thanks anyhow

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Amen to all of that

Jesse Open

"Failed experiment" ?
So Dave, yet another mystery. Where do you think the stuff that never came out went?
I have been relocating the vent forward on various and most Saito engines since 1979.Both my own and done it for others as well. Even before Saito started doing it.
I usually place it on the upper side in side mounted engines, adjacent to the driven cam gear. The results over the very long haul have been excellent. Better lube up front, extended operation between valve adjustment, more effective flushing when after run oiling.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

As Rocky Balboa would say, "I don't know that question", every single thing you said about moving it applies equally to leaving it.

Jesse Open

No Dave, not at all.

The rear vent promotes the blow by oil and gasses to move out the rear cover where there is least resistance. The cam area up front is an area that can use more oil rather than less. When the vent relief is forward, the bulk of the oil moves more readily through the rear bearing to the cam an lifter area where it is put to work oiling the valve gear. When these engines are taken apart after long stretches of use it is very obvious they have been better oiled.

Conversely, when after run oil is applied, the oil, residual fuel and moisture is immediately displaced by the fresh, clean after run oil. Driven away from the otherwise rust prone areas.
Oiling the rear cover is not any where near as effective.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Pure theory, I don't have any worn cams on the rear vent engines.

Jesse Open

Rudolph Hart

And fellas don't forget this handy acc for your car if the cyclists are clogging up good roads over there


Sweet as do you think guys?
This is a good discussion and good view points to mull over i prefer not carrying the clutter that comes with cdi on small engines (up to my fa220) and planes so i agree with a lot of what jesse says...except for the motoguzzi motorcycles...that's a step to far

Dave where do you think the excess lube like old blow by oil in your saito fa150 ended up?

ps jesse nice looking copper/brass? custom exhaust and acc mate

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

I honestly don't know Pete, I even experimented with an in flowing check valve on the rear vent thinking that would push oil out the cam housing mounted vent. If I run the 1.50 for, say an hour and then carefully pull the back plate there will be a good amount of residual oil in there, so I know it's all getting lubed. If I can squeeze it in I'll run it again today. I need to get my bike ready far a big Ride In Sunday the 3rd. I have wondered over the years why some of the rear vents are in the back plate center and others are at about the 4:00 position, the .80 for instance. And the ,80 has two other bosses for different positions.

Jesse Open

Taken at Lake Champlain, Upstate New York on a weekend ride.
Huh?
Actually, I understand. Your acquired taste comment is spot on. For many years I too turned away from the Guzzi bikes. My habit back then was to haunt the bike shops and buy derelct Britbikes to get up and running . I just had to have at least 5 project bikes to get through the winter. At one point I was down to zero projects and was nearing panic state. All I could turn up was a very pathetic looking 1971 Guzzi Ambassador at Anderson's Motorcycles in Pontiac. In desperation I made the deal for $150 . Next day my brother in law drove me and my tool box out to the shop. We got the bike running in the parking lot so I decided to risk the 20 mile ride home. Halfway home, my attitude towards the Guzzis was already moving up the scale. That old bike became the favorite for trips, daily riding. The looks were awful but I didn't even think of that while riding that bike. The only problem was the previous owner had cross threaded the spark plug in the right cylinder to the point where it was barely holding. I was putting off doing the Helicoil for some reason and rode the bike anyhow. One night in late fall on the way home from work doing about 65 mph. I heard a pop followed by that open air compressor sound and a drop in power. Almost immediately thereafter I was felling the power of the spark plug surging through my leg. There I was, flailing my entire body and kicking my leg sideways trying to lose that plug wire that would not leave my leg. After what seemed like forever (probably 10 seconds) the plug wire finally let go and I limped home on one cylinder. For the next two weeks when I rode the Norton Commando home I still spotted that plug wire on the shoulder. I gave it the finger as I passed by!
I sold that ugly old bike to a buddy .Many years later he decided to restore it . Maybe Dave will like it as he painted it green.

SrTelemaster150

Not even close. The "best case scenario" was an FA-200Ti that yielded a 70% improvement in fuel economy. With GI it consumed 12 oz of glow fuel in 7 minutes @ WOT. When tuned with CDI, it took 12 minutes to consume the same 12 oz of fuel.

Thus upsetting the CG even more when the larger fuel load is consumed. The weight of the CDI is constant, therefore not affecting the CG adversely during flight.

But let's also consider my own experience with the cost of "replenishing fuel". Over 2 seasons with my CDI equipped FA-150 burned a way 1 gallon of glow fuel a week, resulting in about 50 gallons consumed. At a conservative $21 a gallon with sales tax included, that's $1050. With GI I would have burned through an additional 12 1/2 gallons with an additional cost of more than $260. The CDI paid for itself in the 1st year and saved over $130 each season after that.

A 4 cell 750 Mah Nmh battery pack will give about 45 minutes if flight time with a single cylinder engine @ WOT. That's less than 2 oz of additional weigh. With a similar weight for the actual CDI system, 4 oz of additional weight needs to be carried. That is offset by the additional 4 oz of fuel that must be carried during take off for the same 10 minute flight.

That's like saying carburetors, points plugs, condenser worked well enough in our automobiles thus making the improvements of electronic (CDI BTW) ignition and fuel injection as "un -needed".

When did you convert all of your mowers, trimmers, chainsaws, etc to GI for the added simplicity. Is your automobile on the list too?

You remind me of the folks that cling to the convoluted imperial measurement system as "good enough" when the much more simplified metric system is far superior (simpler).

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

LOL; when I first tried to fly it my 1.50 threw props. No amount of tuning could stop it. If it went lean, burp! So I put a CH Ignitions CDI on it and a shim under the jug that CH just happened to have. Ran fine that way and had a ridiculously slow idle. So the next spring I tried it on 92 octane pump gas just for the helluvit. Used the original carb too. Flew it all summer that way. Put it back on glow after that without the shim under the jug. It runs fine on 10% 2-stroke fuel now.

I think it took two years to break the doggoned thing in!

CR

Jesse Open

Gee whiz Seenyour , Gettin a little testy there
The 25% improvement you claim is not typical regardless. In any event 1/4 of the way into your flight, your perceived advantage is gone, but the CDI bulk is still there.Not only the weight but the clutter. All the additional wire, connections and electronics. Still along for the ride. The weight issues remain as stated.
.
Different engines, different requirements and situations get different systems. It isn't your all or nothing world.
I have been using and building spark systems since the late 1970s but never made it a religion.
Ran many ST S-40s on spark, both breaker type and CDI. No big deal. I have and certainly will again use CDI but it will never be my primary choice for other than large planes.
I have weighed the options and chosen what suits my needs, my needs usually lead to elimination of sophistry. Have fun hauling that electronic rats nest of wires, batteries, connectors and boxes. If it impresses you, that's all that matters. I like being able to hold an entire airborne ignition system in a thimble. Yep, even though I know I am losing precious fuel mileage.

Thanks for the pointers,


My lawn equipment BTW is 100% electric. All battery powered. When are you converting your mower , hand whacker and cars to methanol? Good enough for your toy airplanes , should be fine for your car. Cost? Shoot if I were that cost wary that a few percent either way mattered I would have gone to gasoline long ago.

Good stuff Charley QSL on all of it! It is whatever gets the job done over the long run.

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

ROFL! "Seymour" turns up preaching CDI on lots of threads!

I may put the CDI back on it just to try E-85 fuel. I can get it here now.

CR

acdii

Funny, I was able to stuff an FG-11 into an LT-40 to replace a cranky OS-52. What is funny about it is the FG-11 with the CDI weighs the same as the OS 52, and I just use a larger LIFE to power the RX and ignition. Flies great, on gas.

Jesse Open

Are you going to use pump-grade E-85 or the canned stuff?
Some of those race fuel guys like VP are selling ethanol in cans that is near straight 95%. Isn't VP based in TX?

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

I thought I'd try pump E85. Yep, VP makes Powermaster in San Antonio. Hmmm, I think the last time I saw glow fuel on the shelf locally it said VP on the cans.

Hay, AA DE AF5AO IMI QRA K

CR

Jesse Open

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Not everyone here has done everything a thousand times nor for a 100 years. Dan's enthusiasm for CDI is no greater than mine nor anyone else who has done it, nor is it a religion. Saying that is a low ball cheap shot.

Jesse Open

Rudolph Hart

Hi dave,don't take offence at the word religion it's used in all sorts of context,particularly in australia.While i have a lot of respect for seenyour six (SS?) and his abilities i like to hear different opinions to my own in a friendly discussion.I don't believe jesse stated his beliefs as abruptly as seenyour six habitually does,and having some fun comments here is good as long as you can take some back in the spirit they were given!

Charley and jesse do you ever talk to barry (blw) on that ham radio thingimy? you keep posting all those strange meaningless letters and i'll start posting in morse code (...---...)

ps nicely restored GREEN motoguzzi

Jesse Open

The old Pica 1/5 scale Waco got some attention last night when I got home from work. For most of it's life it had been powered by an old Saito FA-150.
Figured I would put a freshly rebuilt FA-180 on the nose and retire the 150 for a much needed refresh. The 150 had sported a straight pipe but with the 180 i wanted to mount the Saito cast trash-can muffler. It wound up working at a rather odd angle with the factory pipe. A little whittling on some 2.54 centimeter aluminum bar stock (make that one inch for you ancient imperials) and we now have a 45 degree street type elbow. The muffler was tried out and we can now get a position that is a bit more agreeable.Still needing a bit of fine tuning, gotta make some jam nuts etc, but on the right track.

Hope to fly this one tomorrow!

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

My former bike ridin buddy and truck driver just got his Ham license, Morse code is no longer required here. To this day I wish I had gotten a Ham license in Electronics School instead of a Ship Radar Endorsement.