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12-31-2018, 11:57 PM
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120r3 problem
i have one cylinder not making compression and last time it ran it was spitting a lot of unburnt fuel. does it mean i need to replace a cylinder or a piston??. lost a bit of power too last time i ran it. it was ok the first 4-5 flights but then no compression on of the three cylinders buf the other two are fine. also is the cylinder or piston interchangeable with an fa40 or completly different thing??
01-01-2019, 01:01 AM
Dave,a nice shot of your 120 radial with flex exhausts.A shot of my 200r3 with a keleo ring exhaust,do you use them? ps the beer can is for scale
Have you pulled the rocker covers to check that a pushrod has'nt slipped out of the rocker cup on one of the bottom cylinders? saito triples take a lot of running before the lower left cylinder (looking from the front) will stay lit for an extended time at idle or low rpm.Adding five to seven percent pump gas to your fuel mix mostly cures that.
Jim i've flown the cmpro midget mustang with many different pitch props but i like the 15x8 because it's still really slippery and quick plus i get a sonic boom sometimes off the prop tips,the boys love it.Re your fa82 in the shoestring,are you saying you want to see 11800 on the ground?
01-01-2019, 02:15 AM
Got your problem solved then,your not running 3% castor in your fuel are you?? just kidding mate.The more information you give to people here about your experience with saito's and what you've done so far to fix the problem.Your thoughts on what else you think may be wrong and what you did on xmas day if you have time
01-01-2019, 02:53 AM
Hey, I resemble that remark! Hahaaa
Christmas day? Went through some flight training routines with my Gson and his Apprentice S 15e, that is until it started porpoising coming out of a loop and broke the fuselage in half. She nosed in hard but those planes are tough. Broke the motor mount, shredded the cowl and broke a plastic clevis. A little glue and total cost for parts was $25.00. The smile on his face is worth every penny.
Christmas day? Went through some flight training routines with my Gson and his Apprentice S 15e, that is until it started porpoising coming out of a loop and broke the fuselage in half. She nosed in hard but those planes are tough. Broke the motor mount, shredded the cowl and broke a plastic clevis. A little glue and total cost for parts was $25.00. The smile on his face is worth every penny.
01-01-2019, 03:33 AM
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i have one cylinder not making compression and last time it ran it was spitting a lot of unburnt fuel. does it mean i need to replace a cylinder or a piston??. lost a bit of power too last time i ran it. it was ok the first 4-5 flights but then no compression on of the three cylinders buf the other two are fine. also is the cylinder or piston interchangeable with an fa40 or completly different thing??
Saito 120 R-3 Bore===.9"/22 mm Stroke===.6"/16.2 mm
Saito FA 40-a Bore===.86"/22 mm Stroke===.68"/17.4 mm
Last edited by Hobbsy; 01-01-2019 at 03:41 AM.
01-01-2019, 05:58 AM
01-01-2019, 09:19 AM
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cool thanx for the cylinder infos. chrismas day i ate turkey and watched tv. so i dissambled the back cover witn engine mount nothing seemed broken or loose but still no compression in one of the cylinders. suspecting a bent valve or somethin like that but have to dig deeper.
01-01-2019, 09:32 AM
Recheck the valve clearances, you said tight, they should have some slop to them. push on the valves to make sure they are not sticking either. Blow compressed air into the intake and exhaust as well to see if a valve is open. Do this before tearing into the engine.
01-01-2019, 12:16 PM
Happy New Year to all!
Fairytail ending with my Saito 100. I stuck a flathead screwdriver between spring coils on the intake valve and got it unstuck. Not sure why it got stuck in the first place but I oiled it and is working fine now. Compression is back! Compression is not perfect but very good.
One thing I noticed is how different the valve adjustments are. I thought that may explain why the valve got stuck but I checked and set the proper clearance. Has anyone else noticed such a difference in valve adjustments?
01-01-2019, 01:31 PM
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Re your fa82 in the shoestring,are you saying you want to see 11800 on the ground?
yet I think it may do it with the slightly larger FA100 Carb and Intake.
I think it will be worth the try
, if it doesn't work then all I need to buy is a new Intake for my FA100, if it does work I will have to buy a new Carb and new Intake, like I said, I think it's worth a try, it will be funEDIT; if I can get the 82a to turn the 12X10 at 10500 that will get me 10mph faster than with the OS, at 99mph
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...76727d3abf.jpg
Jim
Last edited by the Wasp; 01-01-2019 at 01:39 PM.
01-01-2019, 02:04 PM
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Happy New Year to all!
Fairytail ending with my Saito 100. I stuck a flathead screwdriver between spring coils on the intake valve and got it unstuck. Not sure why it got stuck in the first place but I oiled it and is working fine now. Compression is back! Compression is not perfect but very good.
One thing I noticed is how different the valve adjustments are. I thought that may explain why the valve got stuck but I checked and set the proper clearance. Has anyone else noticed such a difference in valve adjustments?
01-01-2019, 02:40 PM
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happy new year everyone, so i opened my engine and no valves were stuck i cleaned everything oiled it up put it back together with the clearence check and still no compression. when the other two cylinder compress air the bad one actually sucks air in? could it be timing?
01-01-2019, 02:47 PM
82 Update
Happy New Year To All, i hope it's a good one fer ya!
As promised I lobbed all the parts back into the 82 and fired it up. Omega 15%, 65°f, apc 14x6 and it peaked at 9750 rpm after a 20min re-break in BUT it wouldn't hold that rpm for more than a few seconds. Coming from idle to peak it was very quick and each time it would peak the same but after three seconds or so it would slowly drop rpm back down to 9200, then all of a sudden it dropped down to 8500 for a second. Whoa, better shut it down to idle I thought. So I'm standing there scratching my head while it's idling and screeeeech. I shut it down instantly and tore it down. The bearings which had felt so smooth and quiet before now sounded dry. I removed the bearings and bearing seals and sure enough they are as dry as a popcorn fart. The 2RS front bearing had no grease left in it and the shielded rear bearing (front and rear shielded) was covered inside with a super fine rust powder. The balls and races in both bearings are matt finish in appearance and covered with scratches. Man, I can't win with this darned 82. Adding bearings to my new parts list.
On the positive side, the reworked crank pin looks great after the run and the intake valve doesn't leak at all. In addition neither bearing spun in the case so I should count that as a blessing too, seeing as the case is discontinued.
Are we having fun yet?
Lonnie
As promised I lobbed all the parts back into the 82 and fired it up. Omega 15%, 65°f, apc 14x6 and it peaked at 9750 rpm after a 20min re-break in BUT it wouldn't hold that rpm for more than a few seconds. Coming from idle to peak it was very quick and each time it would peak the same but after three seconds or so it would slowly drop rpm back down to 9200, then all of a sudden it dropped down to 8500 for a second. Whoa, better shut it down to idle I thought. So I'm standing there scratching my head while it's idling and screeeeech. I shut it down instantly and tore it down. The bearings which had felt so smooth and quiet before now sounded dry. I removed the bearings and bearing seals and sure enough they are as dry as a popcorn fart. The 2RS front bearing had no grease left in it and the shielded rear bearing (front and rear shielded) was covered inside with a super fine rust powder. The balls and races in both bearings are matt finish in appearance and covered with scratches. Man, I can't win with this darned 82. Adding bearings to my new parts list.
On the positive side, the reworked crank pin looks great after the run and the intake valve doesn't leak at all. In addition neither bearing spun in the case so I should count that as a blessing too, seeing as the case is discontinued.
Are we having fun yet?
Lonnie
Last edited by Glowgeek; 01-01-2019 at 03:36 PM.
01-01-2019, 03:40 PM
01-01-2019, 07:06 PM
I rechecked TDC and took another shot. The rocker arms look fairly even but the adjustment screw & nut are off. If this is no good then the next step would be to check the push rods, tappets and cam.
01-01-2019, 08:12 PM
My Feedback: (1)
Happy New Year To All, i hope it's a good one fer ya!
As promised I lobbed all the parts back into the 82 and fired it up. Omega 15%, 65°f, apc 14x6 and it peaked at 9750 rpm after a 20min re-break in BUT it wouldn't hold that rpm for more than a few seconds. Coming from idle to peak it was very quick and each time it would peak the same but after three seconds or so it would slowly drop rpm back down to 9200, then all of a sudden it dropped down to 8500 for a second. Whoa, better shut it down to idle I thought. So I'm standing there scratching my head while it's idling and screeeeech. I shut it down instantly and tore it down. The bearings which had felt so smooth and quiet before now sounded dry. I removed the bearings and bearing seals and sure enough they are as dry as a popcorn fart. The 2RS front bearing had no grease left in it and the shielded rear bearing (front and rear shielded) was covered inside with a super fine rust powder. The balls and races in both bearings are matt finish in appearance and covered with scratches. Man, I can't win with this darned 82. Adding bearings to my new parts list.
On the positive side, the reworked crank pin looks great after the run and the intake valve doesn't leak at all. In addition neither bearing spun in the case so I should count that as a blessing too, seeing as the case is discontinued.
Are we having fun yet?
Lonnie
As promised I lobbed all the parts back into the 82 and fired it up. Omega 15%, 65°f, apc 14x6 and it peaked at 9750 rpm after a 20min re-break in BUT it wouldn't hold that rpm for more than a few seconds. Coming from idle to peak it was very quick and each time it would peak the same but after three seconds or so it would slowly drop rpm back down to 9200, then all of a sudden it dropped down to 8500 for a second. Whoa, better shut it down to idle I thought. So I'm standing there scratching my head while it's idling and screeeeech. I shut it down instantly and tore it down. The bearings which had felt so smooth and quiet before now sounded dry. I removed the bearings and bearing seals and sure enough they are as dry as a popcorn fart. The 2RS front bearing had no grease left in it and the shielded rear bearing (front and rear shielded) was covered inside with a super fine rust powder. The balls and races in both bearings are matt finish in appearance and covered with scratches. Man, I can't win with this darned 82. Adding bearings to my new parts list.
On the positive side, the reworked crank pin looks great after the run and the intake valve doesn't leak at all. In addition neither bearing spun in the case so I should count that as a blessing too, seeing as the case is discontinued.
Are we having fun yet?
Lonnie
Jim
01-01-2019, 08:39 PM
Happy New Year To All, i hope it's a good one fer ya!
As promised I lobbed all the parts back into the 82 and fired it up. Omega 15%, 65°f, apc 14x6 and it peaked at 9750 rpm after a 20min re-break in BUT it wouldn't hold that rpm for more than a few seconds. Coming from idle to peak it was very quick and each time it would peak the same but after three seconds or so it would slowly drop rpm back down to 9200, then all of a sudden it dropped down to 8500 for a second. Whoa, better shut it down to idle I thought. So I'm standing there scratching my head while it's idling and screeeeech. I shut it down instantly and tore it down. The bearings which had felt so smooth and quiet before now sounded dry. I removed the bearings and bearing seals and sure enough they are as dry as a popcorn fart. The 2RS front bearing had no grease left in it and the shielded rear bearing (front and rear shielded) was covered inside with a super fine rust powder. The balls and races in both bearings are matt finish in appearance and covered with scratches. Man, I can't win with this darned 82. Adding bearings to my new parts list.
On the positive side, the reworked crank pin looks great after the run and the intake valve doesn't leak at all. In addition neither bearing spun in the case so I should count that as a blessing too, seeing as the case is discontinued.
Are we having fun yet?
Lonnie
As promised I lobbed all the parts back into the 82 and fired it up. Omega 15%, 65°f, apc 14x6 and it peaked at 9750 rpm after a 20min re-break in BUT it wouldn't hold that rpm for more than a few seconds. Coming from idle to peak it was very quick and each time it would peak the same but after three seconds or so it would slowly drop rpm back down to 9200, then all of a sudden it dropped down to 8500 for a second. Whoa, better shut it down to idle I thought. So I'm standing there scratching my head while it's idling and screeeeech. I shut it down instantly and tore it down. The bearings which had felt so smooth and quiet before now sounded dry. I removed the bearings and bearing seals and sure enough they are as dry as a popcorn fart. The 2RS front bearing had no grease left in it and the shielded rear bearing (front and rear shielded) was covered inside with a super fine rust powder. The balls and races in both bearings are matt finish in appearance and covered with scratches. Man, I can't win with this darned 82. Adding bearings to my new parts list.
On the positive side, the reworked crank pin looks great after the run and the intake valve doesn't leak at all. In addition neither bearing spun in the case so I should count that as a blessing too, seeing as the case is discontinued.
Are we having fun yet?
Lonnie
When I replaced the bearings in my 65 the rear bearing was super tight. It took a lot of heat to get that out and a be one back in.
Good of luck with yours.
01-01-2019, 11:38 PM
A better look at the keleo exhaust ring on my fa200r3 somebody asked if it helped cylinder scavenging.Two of the headers actually face each other on the ring itself so i doubt it.As dave is fond of saying i did'nt notice any diff in top end rpm.They are very well made out of soft ally and sound better than the flexi exhaust that i use on the fa115 in the mustang.
Freeze the new bearings the night before quicky and they just about drop in on their own.
Lonnie as jim says the rear bearing comes unsealed but the front bearing is fully sealed for life.I never remove the inner red seal of the front bearing,it just lets the crankcase crud in and washes that good quality factory grease out.
Jim does this calculator you use allow for the amount of rpm increase when the prop unloads a bit in flight? ie is it based on inflight data from an eagletree unit or similar onboard measuring unit.If so did they measure the difference in max ground rpm and inflight rpm in draggy and slippery airframes,just wondering because that would make a huge difference in how rich you are prepared to tune on the ground for an added top speed advantage because your engine won't run lean so quick.Confused yet?
01-02-2019, 03:37 AM
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I see that the intake adjuster has about 3 threads below the rocker and the exhaust adjuster has 1 or less. It appears that the intake pushrod tube is bowed and has been whacked near the top, might be a figment of my mind though. If the intake pushrod is bowed also, that would explain the difference between the two.