Welcome to Club SAITO !
01-14-2019, 04:38 PM
Now now now. You guys are just jealous that i was able to match that beautiful color that Kawasaki has come out with.
So to night i will put Hogasaki on the bottom of the wing.
So to night i will put Hogasaki on the bottom of the wing.
01-14-2019, 04:59 PM
01-14-2019, 05:34 PM
82 update
So today I tore down the 82a (yet again) to look closer at the leaky valve issue and swap out the brand new but leaky front bearing. Whoever said that my leaky valve problem could be a sticking valve was correct! My apologies for so quickly discounting that as a possibly. With such a miniscule amount of castor varnish on the inlet valve stem I would never have thought that it would fail to close. The guides must be tighter than a nun's xxxx! A little scrubbing on the valve stem with steel wool fixed it.
Believe it or not Jesse I could not detect any difference in valve lash. I checked the lash before disassembly and after reassembly and it was just a slight drag using a .002 feeler in both cases. As I suspected by the very slight hissing the valve was very very close to being fully seated when sticking.
I ran the engine and of course the peak is down 300 rpm but I suspect it will snap back to 9700 once the ring finds a nice snuggly place to rest.
Next on the list is to replace a leaky front bearing on a 62 and break in my new 82b (my first ever new glow engine).....woooowhoooo!!!!
Believe it or not Jesse I could not detect any difference in valve lash. I checked the lash before disassembly and after reassembly and it was just a slight drag using a .002 feeler in both cases. As I suspected by the very slight hissing the valve was very very close to being fully seated when sticking.
I ran the engine and of course the peak is down 300 rpm but I suspect it will snap back to 9700 once the ring finds a nice snuggly place to rest.
Next on the list is to replace a leaky front bearing on a 62 and break in my new 82b (my first ever new glow engine).....woooowhoooo!!!!
Last edited by Glowgeek; 01-15-2019 at 02:13 AM.
01-14-2019, 06:07 PM
So today I tore down the 82a (yet again) to look closer at the leaky valve issue and swap out the brand new but leaky front bearing. Whoever said that my leaky valve problem could be a sticking valve was correct! My apologies for so quickly discounting that as a possibly. With such a miniscule amount of castor varnish on the inlet valve stem I would never have thought that it would fail to close. The guides must be tighter than a nun's xxxx! A little scrubbing on the valve stem with steel wool fixed it.
Believe it or not Jesse I could not detect any difference in valve lash. I checked the lash before disassembly and after reassembly and it was just a slight drag using a .002 feeler in both cases. As I suspected by the very slight hissing the valve was very very close to being fully seated when sticking.
I ran the engine and of course the peak is down 300 rpm but I suspect it will snap back to 9700 once the ring finds a nice snuggly place to rest.
Next on the list is to replace a leaky front bearing on a 62 and break in my new 82b (my first ever new glow engine).....woooowhoooo!!!!
Believe it or not Jesse I could not detect any difference in valve lash. I checked the lash before disassembly and after reassembly and it was just a slight drag using a .002 feeler in both cases. As I suspected by the very slight hissing the valve was very very close to being fully seated when sticking.
I ran the engine and of course the peak is down 300 rpm but I suspect it will snap back to 9700 once the ring finds a nice snuggly place to rest.
Next on the list is to replace a leaky front bearing on a 62 and break in my new 82b (my first ever new glow engine).....woooowhoooo!!!!
01-14-2019, 06:42 PM
Saito 180 Spray Bar
So I happen to have two FA180's torn down at once and noticed a difference. I thought that I had read one time that the "cat eye" slot in the spray bar should be facing toward the engine like the lower one in the picture but now I am seeing two different variations in these two engines. The upper one in the picture has the cat eye 90 degrees different. I really don't think either one of these engines has had the spray bar replaced. Would the factory do it two different ways?
01-14-2019, 10:58 PM
NOS Saito parts
Hi folks
Any one have a line on whereabouts of NOS parts for Saitos Horizon Hobby sales think don't exist?
( Lot like current Harley D parts counters);hehe.
Need a few small things for two 150s I just put bearings in.
Any one have a line on whereabouts of NOS parts for Saitos Horizon Hobby sales think don't exist?
( Lot like current Harley D parts counters);hehe.
Need a few small things for two 150s I just put bearings in.
01-14-2019, 11:13 PM
So I happen to have two FA180's torn down at once and noticed a difference. I thought that I had read one time that the "cat eye" slot in the spray bar should be facing toward the engine like the lower one in the picture but now I am seeing two different variations in these two engines. The upper one in the picture has the cat eye 90 degrees different. I really don't think either one of these engines has had the spray bar replaced. Would the factory do it two different ways?
01-14-2019, 11:25 PM
Glowy good thing you persisted and solved that valve problem on your fa82 don't be afraid to use a little castor and well done mate,now you've got an engine that will give you much long term enjoyment.So sit back and crack one of those green irish beers they serve on st patricks day along with capt hogasaki and dave with his green harley,may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your undies.
01-14-2019, 11:32 PM
Glowy good thing you persisted and solved that valve problem on your fa82 don't be afraid to use a little castor and well done mate,now you've got an engine that will give you much long term enjoyment.So sit back and crack one of those green irish beers they serve on st patricks day along with capt hogasaki and dave with his green harley,may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your undies.
01-15-2019, 02:46 AM
So I happen to have two FA180's torn down at once and noticed a difference. I thought that I had read one time that the "cat eye" slot in the spray bar should be facing toward the engine like the lower one in the picture but now I am seeing two different variations in these two engines. The upper one in the picture has the cat eye 90 degrees different. I really don't think either one of these engines has had the spray bar replaced. Would the factory do it two different ways?
01-15-2019, 03:27 AM
Glowgeek,
Sounds like you need to work a bit on your technique
Any sticking valve that would affect an engine to the degree you describe would be measurable.
Could be your initial settings were a bit off, so the second reading did not reflect the actual change. Like I said, when you get a change like yours after warmup, valve leakage is suspect. Either sticking valves or insufficient lash clearance.
Fred, Darn near impossible to shoot straight down the bores of two carbs at the same time with a single lens These crappy phone cameras also get in the way of light..
As for the castor;
Doesn't take much, but I will always use some! If you only burn a couple gallons a month or less, you may never realize the difference. Over the long haul...... The trick is to use just enough. I use 14% total oil and only 2% of that is castor. Like the ZDDP, it only takes a little to get the bulk of the benefit.
Sounds like you need to work a bit on your technique
Any sticking valve that would affect an engine to the degree you describe would be measurable.
Could be your initial settings were a bit off, so the second reading did not reflect the actual change. Like I said, when you get a change like yours after warmup, valve leakage is suspect. Either sticking valves or insufficient lash clearance.
Fred, Darn near impossible to shoot straight down the bores of two carbs at the same time with a single lens
These crappy phone cameras also get in the way of light..As for the castor;
Doesn't take much, but I will always use some! If you only burn a couple gallons a month or less, you may never realize the difference. Over the long haul.....
. The trick is to use just enough. I use 14% total oil and only 2% of that is castor. Like the ZDDP, it only takes a little to get the bulk of the benefit.Last edited by Jesse Open; 01-15-2019 at 04:19 AM.
01-15-2019, 03:38 AM
The Castor Problem?
Of the 4 used saitos I've rebuilt they all had damaged cams and lifters. I assumed from the beginning that it was due to poor valve lash maintenance. Now I'm not so sure. With this latest used 82 having valve sticking problems I'm wondering if it could it have been the use of too much castor in the fuel. It's too late for me to tell if sticky valves contributed to the cam and lifter failures on the first three saitos because I tore them down and cooked them for 24hrs at 175°f in antifreeze. All of the castor varnish was removed before rebuilding those first three. This latest 82 though has been an eye opener.
I've always been afraid to run too little castor in any model engine and so I tend to err on the side of caution. Perhaps that's not a bad idea with 2 strokes but obviously not such a good thing with 4 stroke glow engines.
I think I'll add "Too much castor" to my list of things that can cause cam and lifter failures ie sticking valves. Not to mention sticking lifters that are gummed up and won't spin in their bores.
I think you all who have said to run a low percentage castor eg 2-3% are right on. No castor? I'm just not there yet.
I've always been afraid to run too little castor in any model engine and so I tend to err on the side of caution. Perhaps that's not a bad idea with 2 strokes but obviously not such a good thing with 4 stroke glow engines.
I think I'll add "Too much castor" to my list of things that can cause cam and lifter failures ie sticking valves. Not to mention sticking lifters that are gummed up and won't spin in their bores.
I think you all who have said to run a low percentage castor eg 2-3% are right on. No castor? I'm just not there yet.
01-15-2019, 04:04 AM
Not at all true.
But what you may call long is probably just a blink for others
The difference in cam wear alone is quite noticeable, over the long haul.
Maybe that was Dave???
Last edited by Jesse Open; 01-15-2019 at 04:11 AM.
01-15-2019, 04:53 AM
Of the 4 used saitos I've rebuilt they all had damaged cams and lifters. I assumed from the beginning that it was due to poor valve lash maintenance. Now I'm not so sure. With this latest used 82 having valve sticking problems I'm wondering if it could it have been the use of too much castor in the fuel. It's too late for me to tell if sticky valves contributed to the cam and lifter failures on the first three saitos because I tore them down and cooked them for 24hrs at 175°f in antifreeze. All of the castor varnish was removed before rebuilding those first three. This latest 82 though has been an eye opener.
I've always been afraid to run too little castor in any model engine and so I tend to err on the side of caution. Perhaps that's not a bad idea with 2 strokes but obviously not such a good thing with 4 stroke glow engines.
I think I'll add "Too much castor" to my list of things that can cause cam and lifter failures ie sticking valves. Not to mention sticking lifters that are gummed up and won't spin in their bores.
I think you all who have said to run a low percentage castor eg 2-3% are right on. No castor? I'm just not there yet.
I've always been afraid to run too little castor in any model engine and so I tend to err on the side of caution. Perhaps that's not a bad idea with 2 strokes but obviously not such a good thing with 4 stroke glow engines.
I think I'll add "Too much castor" to my list of things that can cause cam and lifter failures ie sticking valves. Not to mention sticking lifters that are gummed up and won't spin in their bores.
I think you all who have said to run a low percentage castor eg 2-3% are right on. No castor? I'm just not there yet.
I have been flying four strokes since 1979. I have also serviced engines for people locally and abroad since then. In many cases I have known the owners well and often had a good knowledge of the engines history. That includes the fuel used and oil type. Early on , the pattern emerged much like you have seen. The cam wear tended to show up in the straight synthetic oiled engines.
Not liking the varnish but being aware of the oiling needs for cam and lifter durability, I worked out the fuel I am using now. I have had excellent results for decades, and I do fly a lot. Several of my flying friends are now using the same oil blend. Varnishing is NOT a problem regardless what you may have heard from folks who have spent zero time using the blend.
As with the ZDDP, it does not take a lot to get the benefits. Worth noting: KLOTZ still rates their synthetic only oil 20% below their castor synthetic blend for antiwear qualities.
This season ,my large Saitos will be run on 12% total oil. I will cut back the synthetic portion to 8% and bump up the castor to 4%. Four stroke engines have parts not found on two strokes. Those parts do place different demands on the oil.
01-15-2019, 07:07 AM
Been using Wildcat 2&4 and have not had any issues with cam or lifter wear. OTOH I have a couple engines tht were given to me that were run on castor, and they were all gummed up. I have a YS that I had to replace the cam on due to wear, and was a castor *****, took forever to break the gunk down and remove it. Even after cleaning the throttle would stick after sitting for a while. I have not run it yet, but did set it up with a tank of Wildcat and got the fuel system purged and now it no longer sticks. My most run engine is a Saito 72, and it purrs nicely, though I mucked up a bearing somehow so it has this weird howl when it runs. Bearings are silky smooth, so no idea why it howls.
01-15-2019, 07:22 AM
I have also been buying parts from McGregor in the UK. I bought $75 worth of parts and the shipping was $14. It took about 10 days to get to me but a lot of that time was in the Chicago Airport Customs before it was released to USPS.
01-15-2019, 07:25 AM
Well with what has been said. I must be the luckiest Saito owner in history. I run straight synthetic in all my Saito four stroke’s and have experience zero problem’s. I don’t even run afte run oil. But i have only been flying for 30 years so that might be why.
01-15-2019, 07:39 AM
Never said the wear was immediately apparent.
Also been VERY clear that indeed you can use too much castor Proper engine clearing and after run oiling minimize the tendency to varnish. Avoiding lean runs from tachometer chasing that last 200 RPM helps too
I didn't knee jerk react to observations of varnish from too much castor as so many have done It is a matter of finding an effective balance.
After forty years with four strokes and plenty of raw evidence from all types of fuel, store bought and custom blended, I stay with the low dose castor program based on solid observation. Not limited to my own engines but several times that from other owners.
The gallon or two a month flyer may never realize the diffeernce but it is there.
Also been VERY clear that indeed you can use too much castor
Proper engine clearing and after run oiling minimize the tendency to varnish. Avoiding lean runs from tachometer chasing that last 200 RPM helps tooI didn't knee jerk react to observations of varnish from too much castor as so many have done It is a matter of finding an effective balance.
After forty years with four strokes and plenty of raw evidence from all types of fuel, store bought and custom blended, I stay with the low dose castor program based on solid observation. Not limited to my own engines but several times that from other owners.
The gallon or two a month flyer may never realize the diffeernce but it is there.
